S
SoMissCatholic
Guest
Reported.
Although your use of scare quotes, reference to the sacrament of confirmation as a “ceremony,” and reference to the Eucharist as a “‘special’ communion service” were a nice touch.
What are some of the main reasons that people are attracted to the Protestant faith?
- Status
Although your use of scare quotes, reference to the sacrament of confirmation as a “ceremony,” and reference to the Eucharist as a “‘special’ communion service” were a nice touch.
J
JRKH
Guest
Interesting post - but I don’t really see where it gives reasons that people are attracted to the Protestant faith(s).
Peace
James
Me neither, James.
Jon
A
andrewstx
Guest
With apologies to Abidewithme. I was raised an Evangelical in the Church Of The Nazarene and to me it really seemed extremely easy. Just say a mental prayer and nothing else was needed. No baptism in fact I was a member of that denomination without baptism. In fact baptism was never even brought up or mentioned. I never saw anyone baptized in that church ever. I remember twice in those years the Lord’s Supper done. The emphasis was only on ‘gettin’ saved’. They did dedicate one baby during that time. This congregation seemed more Baptist than anything else. In fact the Official Nazarene Manual reads more like Methodist than Baptist with directions for infant baptism by aspersion, and not a word about dedicating babies.
Later at 16 I went to live with my dad, and he was a member of an accapella ‘church of Christ’ and I was finally baptized at least. But in that sect once you say the mental prayer and are dunked, nothing else is required of you there either.
Maybe I sound like the other Catholics with stereotypes, but this is real and my own personal experience.
I sought a church that required more that just thought, and after I graduated High School and moved out I first became High Church Episcopal and then Catholic.
Later at 16 I went to live with my dad, and he was a member of an accapella ‘church of Christ’ and I was finally baptized at least. But in that sect once you say the mental prayer and are dunked, nothing else is required of you there either.
Maybe I sound like the other Catholics with stereotypes, but this is real and my own personal experience.
I sought a church that required more that just thought, and after I graduated High School and moved out I first became High Church Episcopal and then Catholic.
A
AbideWithMe
Guest
Hey andrewstx—I know that was your experience, I’m not questioning that.
But it’s not even close to standard Wesleyan Methodist practice. It’s kind of like what I hear from some Catholics, that their particular church is, for example, very liberal and disregards Catholic teaching, though the teaching is available to be followed.I do find it odd that a Holiness and Christian Perfection church such as your childhood Church of the Nazarene would lay no emphasis at all on holiness and growth towards our end of perfection and completion in Christlikeness. In my church which, as you and I talked about before, is much like the Church of the Nazarene, what I was discipled in since I was a teen with has quite a bit in common with the Orthodox idea of theosis.
Something I would near in church: “If you want to play piano in heaven, start practicing on earth.”
Amusingly, I remember one hymn from Isaac Watts we sang, which brought odd pictures to my mind–“Must I be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease? / While others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas.”
A
andrewstx
Guest
Honestly Sanctified wholey was mentioned in many sermons, but I was so young I did not understand it at all, just remember the term and nothing else. That congregation did little that preteens and teens could understand.Hey andrewstx—I know that was your experience, I’m not questioning that.
I do find it odd that a Holiness and Christian Perfection church such as your childhood Church of the Nazarene would lay no emphasis at all on holiness and growth towards our end of perfection and completion in Christlikeness. In my church which, as you and I talked about before, is much like the Church of the Nazarene, what I was discipled in since I was a teen with has quite a bit in common with the Orthodox idea of theosis.
Something I would near in church: “If you want to play piano in heaven, start practicing on earth.”
Amusingly, I remember one hymn from Isaac Watts we sang, which brought odd pictures to my mind–“Must I be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease? / While others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas.”
I think the difference could be regional. The vast majority in this part of Texas is overwhelmingly Baptist and they dominate everything it seems, that and churches of Christ.
F
Faithdancer
Guest
I like my cup o’ red wine in the evening, so I can’t really be in a denomination that preaches damnation for moderate consumption of alcohol. Drunkenness is a sin, I understand and believe that. But a beer or two?
My understanding about both the Church of Christ and the Nazarenes- Methodists too for that matter- is that they expect total abstinence. Seems legalistic to me.
P
Publisher
Guest
I gre up in the Chuch of the Nazarene. The emphasis in my little congregation was on entire sanctification. A holy life was emphasized continuously. I was at a meetin, Bible Study, youth group …we were two to three week nights in one function or another.Hey andrewstx—I know that was your experience, I’m not questioning that.
I do find it odd that a Holiness and Christian Perfection church such as your childhood Church of the Nazarene would lay no emphasis at all on holiness and growth towards our end of perfection and completion in Christlikeness. In my church which, as you and I talked about before, is much like the Church of the Nazarene, what I was discipled in since I was a teen with has quite a bit in common with the Orthodox idea of theosis.
Something I would near in church: “If you want to play piano in heaven, start practicing on earth.”
Amusingly, I remember one hymn from Isaac Watts we sang, which brought odd pictures to my mind–“Must I be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease? / While others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas.”
I wasn18, and I taught Sunday School to Junior Boys, I went…snuck off…one Saturday night to see “The Ten Commandments”…completrly enjoyed it…it was found out and I was brought before the Board of Stewarda and Trustees and questioned if indeed I did go see it I needed to resign from being a Sunday School teacher. I said that i had enjoyed it. Needless to say…I didn’t get to teach for a little more than a year…one day it was announced the film “Jesus”…and LO and behold it was in the same theater I was in just a few months back. "It wasn’t the movie, it was the place I went to see the movie, the reasoning was I was supporting an establishment that brought in R and X rated movies one week and The Ten Commandments the next.
Our own personal holiness must be beyond rapprochement , we were not of this world,!but we had to be In it. Most of those men and women were saints…
Personal holiness and a avoidance of the very appearance of sin.
L
lantheria
Guest
wow, projection much? this forum loves scare quotes around anything to do with non-catholic christianity.Although your use of scare quotes, reference to the sacrament of confirmation as a “ceremony,” and reference to the Eucharist as a “‘special’ communion service” were a nice touch.
C
Cat
Guest
I’m going to get back to the topic of reasons that people are attracted to Protestant churches.
They’re friendly.
Not always. Certainly there are snotty churches.
And Catholic churches are full of friendly people, too.
But because of the way the Protestant church worship service is done, it’s easier to meet and greet people before, during, and after the worship service (no True Presence of Christ, so no reason for complete silence).
In addition, the church itself offers so many opportunities to get to know people in smaller settings. Sunday school is still done in many Evangelical Protestant churches, and often at the adult level, these are done in a group discussion format, which means that you can see and hear who in the class would be a potential friend. Also, many Evangelical Protestant churches offer several electives for Sunday school, so you can join a class that is interesting to you, and this means that the others in the class also find it interesting, so voila–friends who have something in common with you!
There are lots of opportunities for children to make friends, too. Along with Sunday school, many Evangelical Protestant churches offer some kind of Bible club, usually on Wednesday evenings. AWANA is the most popular, but there are still some churches that offer Pioneer Clubs (which I think are marvelous!!), and there are also denominational clubs and home-made clubs. These are great fun for the kids, and if they are fortunate enough to have good teachers, they learn a lot, too! Usually during the children’s clubs, there are also Bible studies and fellowship times for the teenagers, and also for the adults. And sometimes, the church will offer a supper before the Wednesday evening activities, and this is yet another opportunity to get together with like-minded people and be friendly.
There are often various social opportunities throughout the year that aren’t necessarily “church-related.” E.g., you’ve probably seen the signs for “Zumba!” at churches. A few decades ago, it was “Jazzercise!” And before that, it was “Aerobics!” I think it’s great when churches offer exercise classes, because many of us have a difficult time with secular pop music. I don’t like the Latin music done at Zumba.
I know a lot of Evangelical Protestant churches that offer various men’s accountability groups. These are excellent as a means to stop viewing porn or practicing other sexual sins. The groups offer friendship as well, as one of the best ways to stop obsessing about sex is to get involved in other wholesome activities; I believe it’s called “sublimation.”
Also, I know that a lot of Catholics criticize the “church nursery,” where babies are placed during the worship service. (It’s unusual to see babies and toddlers in a worship service, because the emphasis is on hearing the Word of God through the songs and sermon, and babies and toddlers make it difficult for people to hear and concentrate on what they are hearing). However, the church nursery is a place where a lot of young parents make friends, and where their very young children make friends. When women are nursing their children together down in the nursery (rather than up in the pews), they chat chat chat, and it’s so much fun! Also, the older women who are around the nursery chat with them, and so parenting ideas and strategies get shared–this is really awesome for young parents.
I could go on and on and on. I’ve often said on CAF that when we were Evangelical Protestant, we were in church or involved with a church activity 5-6 days/evenings a week, and it was wonderful, and I think this is one reason why many lonely, friendless Catholics head to Protestant churches. It’s tough to attend Mass week after week and not meet anyone, and to feel guilty for whispering, “Hello” in the nave because there isn’t any lobby to meet and greet in.
In the past, when parishes were “neighborhood” parishes, I think that Catholics enjoyed this rich friendship/fellowship OUTSIDE of the church doors and OUTSIDE of Mass (so they didn’t need to whispere “Hello” in the nave). But this has all changed. I think that Catholic parishes that offer opportunities for meeting, greeting, and prolonged fellowship/friendship are wise parishes.
BTW, there are times on CAF when people disparage the word “fellowship”. I don’t understand why. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. We are supposed to enjoy fellowship with each other. It’s one of the things that makes us different from the world–we love each other and help each other get to heaven. I think that people look for churches where they can experience true fellowship, and that many people don’t find it in Catholic churches, and that’s why they are attracted to Protestant churches.
They’re friendly.
Not always. Certainly there are snotty churches.
And Catholic churches are full of friendly people, too.
But because of the way the Protestant church worship service is done, it’s easier to meet and greet people before, during, and after the worship service (no True Presence of Christ, so no reason for complete silence).
In addition, the church itself offers so many opportunities to get to know people in smaller settings. Sunday school is still done in many Evangelical Protestant churches, and often at the adult level, these are done in a group discussion format, which means that you can see and hear who in the class would be a potential friend. Also, many Evangelical Protestant churches offer several electives for Sunday school, so you can join a class that is interesting to you, and this means that the others in the class also find it interesting, so voila–friends who have something in common with you!
There are lots of opportunities for children to make friends, too. Along with Sunday school, many Evangelical Protestant churches offer some kind of Bible club, usually on Wednesday evenings. AWANA is the most popular, but there are still some churches that offer Pioneer Clubs (which I think are marvelous!!), and there are also denominational clubs and home-made clubs. These are great fun for the kids, and if they are fortunate enough to have good teachers, they learn a lot, too! Usually during the children’s clubs, there are also Bible studies and fellowship times for the teenagers, and also for the adults. And sometimes, the church will offer a supper before the Wednesday evening activities, and this is yet another opportunity to get together with like-minded people and be friendly.
There are often various social opportunities throughout the year that aren’t necessarily “church-related.” E.g., you’ve probably seen the signs for “Zumba!” at churches. A few decades ago, it was “Jazzercise!” And before that, it was “Aerobics!” I think it’s great when churches offer exercise classes, because many of us have a difficult time with secular pop music. I don’t like the Latin music done at Zumba.
I know a lot of Evangelical Protestant churches that offer various men’s accountability groups. These are excellent as a means to stop viewing porn or practicing other sexual sins. The groups offer friendship as well, as one of the best ways to stop obsessing about sex is to get involved in other wholesome activities; I believe it’s called “sublimation.”
Also, I know that a lot of Catholics criticize the “church nursery,” where babies are placed during the worship service. (It’s unusual to see babies and toddlers in a worship service, because the emphasis is on hearing the Word of God through the songs and sermon, and babies and toddlers make it difficult for people to hear and concentrate on what they are hearing). However, the church nursery is a place where a lot of young parents make friends, and where their very young children make friends. When women are nursing their children together down in the nursery (rather than up in the pews), they chat chat chat, and it’s so much fun! Also, the older women who are around the nursery chat with them, and so parenting ideas and strategies get shared–this is really awesome for young parents.
I could go on and on and on. I’ve often said on CAF that when we were Evangelical Protestant, we were in church or involved with a church activity 5-6 days/evenings a week, and it was wonderful, and I think this is one reason why many lonely, friendless Catholics head to Protestant churches. It’s tough to attend Mass week after week and not meet anyone, and to feel guilty for whispering, “Hello” in the nave because there isn’t any lobby to meet and greet in.
In the past, when parishes were “neighborhood” parishes, I think that Catholics enjoyed this rich friendship/fellowship OUTSIDE of the church doors and OUTSIDE of Mass (so they didn’t need to whispere “Hello” in the nave). But this has all changed. I think that Catholic parishes that offer opportunities for meeting, greeting, and prolonged fellowship/friendship are wise parishes.
BTW, there are times on CAF when people disparage the word “fellowship”. I don’t understand why. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. We are supposed to enjoy fellowship with each other. It’s one of the things that makes us different from the world–we love each other and help each other get to heaven. I think that people look for churches where they can experience true fellowship, and that many people don’t find it in Catholic churches, and that’s why they are attracted to Protestant churches.
S
SoMissCatholic
Guest
Um, no, not really. “This forum” (see what I did there?
) may love scare quotes around anything to do with non-Catholic Christianity, but I don’t. I always try to be respectful of others beliefs. I may not always succeed in that goal, but I do try. My response may have been a little sharp; however, when someone claims to be Catholic, but his first post out of the gate is disrespectful of the sacraments and links to an anti-Catholic sermon that claims Catholicism is like a kind of witchcraft that bewitched the world for ages, I’m going to call him out on it.Also, just FYI, your signature, “proud to be called anathema,” doesn’t really make sense. Anathema only applies to Catholics. Because a person must be a Catholic to be anathema (excommunicated) the term does not apply to Protestants.
L
lutheran_farmer
Guest
My husband and I were raised without religion and we knew nothing but Protestant churches once we did become introduced to Christianity. Now, that we are Catholic, I can describe the difference.
I think the main reason people are attracted to many Protestant churches is that they are less demanding. They require less time. You don’t have to be part of a community or a parish. You can go on Sundays, or not, if you don’t feel like it, because it isn’t a sin to miss Protestant services. It’s an easier road. If you’re family is there, you’ll go to be with them. If you go alone, or just with your immediate family, you’ll go until something offends you (most churches are very careful not to offend anyone in any way). If you don’t like what you hear, or they push a little too much, you’ll shop around for another church. Many people fall into this trap.
My husband and I did this. Some of the friends we made along the way (and still keep) stayed at their various churches because their extended family attended. It did feel like home for them. But, I was surprised at the amount of movement between the various churches along similar denominations. We would run into people we saw at a different church because we were all just searching. We’d get offended and move on or feel uncomfortable and try another church. We’d question what was missing. We suffered burnout from too many changes (okay it was only four churches in seven years and two different versions of Lutheranism, so we weren’t major church shoppers, but we still got burned out). In the end, we attended services about once a month, or less. We were slowly drifting away from God.
Now, let me say that some beautiful, spirit-filled things happened in these churches. They have enough of the Truth to sustain one’s faith very nicely. But we could take it or leave it. it was easy to drift when there was nothing solid to hold onto. I didn’t know there was anything more to believing in God than choosing whether or not to be with Him based on how convenient it was or whether you felt like going to church that Sunday or not.
Please allow me to use my own favorite description of going from Protestantism to Catholicism. Imagine a beautiful, ancient painting by a master. After the painting is already quite old, someone else tries to make a copy, but it’s missing some of the details. Someone else makes a copy from the copy and misses even more details. And so on, down through many years until the masterpiece is reduced to fragments. Each fragment has enough of the Truth to sustain, but those who admire the counterfeits are so far removed from the original that they have no idea what they are missing.
In my case, what I depended on, as a Protestant, were lovely little paintings containing fragments of the Truth. At a critical point in my studying during RCIA, I realized that these fragments were one magnificent painting. My first view of the masterpiece was truly breathtaking.
I think the main reason people are attracted to many Protestant churches is that they are less demanding. They require less time. You don’t have to be part of a community or a parish. You can go on Sundays, or not, if you don’t feel like it, because it isn’t a sin to miss Protestant services. It’s an easier road. If you’re family is there, you’ll go to be with them. If you go alone, or just with your immediate family, you’ll go until something offends you (most churches are very careful not to offend anyone in any way). If you don’t like what you hear, or they push a little too much, you’ll shop around for another church. Many people fall into this trap.
My husband and I did this. Some of the friends we made along the way (and still keep) stayed at their various churches because their extended family attended. It did feel like home for them. But, I was surprised at the amount of movement between the various churches along similar denominations. We would run into people we saw at a different church because we were all just searching. We’d get offended and move on or feel uncomfortable and try another church. We’d question what was missing. We suffered burnout from too many changes (okay it was only four churches in seven years and two different versions of Lutheranism, so we weren’t major church shoppers, but we still got burned out). In the end, we attended services about once a month, or less. We were slowly drifting away from God.
Now, let me say that some beautiful, spirit-filled things happened in these churches. They have enough of the Truth to sustain one’s faith very nicely. But we could take it or leave it. it was easy to drift when there was nothing solid to hold onto. I didn’t know there was anything more to believing in God than choosing whether or not to be with Him based on how convenient it was or whether you felt like going to church that Sunday or not.
Please allow me to use my own favorite description of going from Protestantism to Catholicism. Imagine a beautiful, ancient painting by a master. After the painting is already quite old, someone else tries to make a copy, but it’s missing some of the details. Someone else makes a copy from the copy and misses even more details. And so on, down through many years until the masterpiece is reduced to fragments. Each fragment has enough of the Truth to sustain, but those who admire the counterfeits are so far removed from the original that they have no idea what they are missing.
In my case, what I depended on, as a Protestant, were lovely little paintings containing fragments of the Truth. At a critical point in my studying during RCIA, I realized that these fragments were one magnificent painting. My first view of the masterpiece was truly breathtaking.
P
PRmerger
Guest
And a follow up on #1: All Believers ought to go
if they cannot think of a single moral teaching that is proposed by their church to which they have conformed, in opposition to their own personal views.That is, if they are in a church in which all the teachings happen to agree with their own personal views, then I propose that they have church shopped for a church modeled after the Almighty Self, rather than the Almighty.
(see quote by T. Keller in my signature below.)
C
cmodrmac
Guest
we have many ex catholics in our Church -reasons i have heard
reasons are:
1: bad personal experience ususally the Priest refusing communion to a non catholic spouse ( I agree that here it is poor catechisis)
2. met a friend who invited them to the episcopal Church
3: found a “neutral” Church --true story wife Catholic-Husband Lutheran = joined the Episcopal Church
4: been away from the Church for years -just easier to go back to a Protestant Church (obviously a perception)
5: too many perceived rules
6> do not like the way they treat women (a perception)
virtually all now think birth control if OK-do not undrestand the restriction on Papal infalliblity -but think it is a dumb idea - like a smaller Church where everyone knows each other-but they do not cite these as reasons for joining-wanted to join the Masonic LOdge-there are many
reasons are:
1: bad personal experience ususally the Priest refusing communion to a non catholic spouse ( I agree that here it is poor catechisis)
2. met a friend who invited them to the episcopal Church
3: found a “neutral” Church --true story wife Catholic-Husband Lutheran = joined the Episcopal Church
4: been away from the Church for years -just easier to go back to a Protestant Church (obviously a perception)
5: too many perceived rules
6> do not like the way they treat women (a perception)
virtually all now think birth control if OK-do not undrestand the restriction on Papal infalliblity -but think it is a dumb idea - like a smaller Church where everyone knows each other-but they do not cite these as reasons for joining-wanted to join the Masonic LOdge-there are many
A
Adamski
Guest
I would say 100% of my protestant friends and family think some mortal sin is ok the most common ones being contraception and remarriage.
I really see these issues blinding them in our discussions
I really see these issues blinding them in our discussions
P
PRmerger
Guest
In the spirit of disclosure I would like to offer my own concession:And a follow up on #1: All Believers ought to go
That is, if they are in a church in which all the teachings happen to agree with their own personal views, then I propose that they have church shopped for a church modeled after the Almighty Self, rather than the Almighty.
(see quote by T. Keller in my signature below.)
My own personal view is that I would absolutely love it if it weren’t true that divorce and re-marriage is adultery.
I would love to find a church that teaches that, because then I could celebrate with my friends who had been married to jerks, divorced them (and rightly so!) and found love with a new sweetheart.
But, alas, I can’t rejoice with them and celebrate at their weddings.
Not my choice. Not my rules.
Those are the rules proposed by Christ.
And I can’t change them, no matter how much I wish He hadn’t made that decree.
Thus, I conform my views to Christ’s, rather than leave to find a church that agrees with my own personal views.
S
stewstew03
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
P
PRmerger
Guest
Amen, Sister Aguilera!
Incidentally, lest I be accused of “blind submission”, let me pre-empt that criticism with this thought:
While I do submit to the authority of Christ and His Body, the Catholic Church, it is no more “blind submission” than any student is blindly submitting to her Math professor when she struggles to come to the correct answer. She know that her professor is correct, but she has to work out the answer in her own head.
But first she admits, “My professor is right. I haven’t gotten there yet. But let me sort out the basic math first, and then I am certain that my conclusion will coincide with that which my professor has proclaimed.”
From John Henry Cardinal Newman:
“Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt, for a man may be annoyed that he cannot work out a mathematical problem, without doubting that it admits an answer”.
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
In Matthew 19:9 Jesus said “And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.” So what if your friends divorced due to their jerks committing such immorality, your church doesn’t give you the choice to rejoice and celebrate with them?
F
FathersKnowBest
Guest
fornication is a bad translation of the Greek word porneia.
Further, since Matthew wrote to a Jewish audience, this has to be understood in the Jewish context.
- Status