What are some of the main reasons that people are attracted to the Protestant faith?

[EvangelCatholic]

I fear the changes of heart I have seen, over the past 50 years. Hence, I am in the Continuum. But that wasn’t the point of my question to EC. I wanted to stress that the words came from a Lutheran source, representing a Lutheran viewpoint, and not necessarily a universal one at that.

GKC

With all due respect, you have argued against ecumenical efforts between Lutherans and Catholics, regardless the source [including primarily the Holy See]. And have not offered one document to support your position that the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue is meaningless. Or that the magisterium is against these Lutheran and Catholic declarations.

You don’t have to accept ecumenical work, many on CAF join you. Perhaps it is better to argue polemical differences that don’t reflect Church relations over the past century; some still claim that the earth is flat.

I have never questioned your motives, GKC.

 

[GKC]

I think that while that original source was indeed flawed, it (30-35 thousand) is simply a common sense answer, when one estimates the number of mainline denominations.

In fact, I think it is wayyyy underestimated when one considers that almost every street, in every city, in every state, in every country has a church like this which is not in any mainline denomination:

http://thinkchristian.reframemedia.com/images/articles/cathedral.jpg

Thus, when one counts these churches, which belong to no one save the individual who started it (leaving another church because he didn’t believe that fallible pastor was interpreting the bible the way he understood it. And this fallible pastor probably left his previous church for the same reason. All the fruit of this paradigm that says that one can read the Bible any way he wishes and come to his own conclusions.) the number of Protestant denominations is probably in the millions. Millions!

So I think it is quite generous when we use the statistic of 35K.

In reality, it’s probably in the millions.

At any rate, even if it’s 199 denominations, it still is a testament to the fact that the Bible cannot be interpreted on its own, without the lens of the faith which gave us this Bible. Otherwise, what one gets is each individual thinking that he can read the Bible and get his own doctrine from it.

Thinking is good; always to be encouraged.

For this purpose I’d tend to go with some statistics that can be demonstrated. And some standardization of terminology.

But, heck, who knows. Pick a number.

GKC

 

[PRmerger]

But, heck, who knows. Pick a number.

GKC

Yes. I go with “tens of thousands”. And people who bristle at that estimation are welcome to give me the correct number, as long as they provide their source. And I will consider using that number.

 

[PRmerger]

They can have a need for the Eucharist but also for an overall better worshiping experience with better music, better homilies/sermons.

That’s like saying to one’s wife, “I do enjoy our one flesh union, but for an overall better relationship experience, I choose my friends with whom I have better discussions, better laughs, better times.”

And they disagree with or don’t believe in some of what the RCC teaches.

And that’s like saying to Jesus, “I don’t believe some of what you say. You are wrong about, say, divorce and re-marriage. I happen to believe that it’s not a sin.”

And when someone understands teaching but does not believe in it, as you say no amount of catechism is going to change that. Catechism may be important but belief trumps it. As you said faith is complex and the world has not only black and white. But gray too.

All of the that sounds rather black and white.

 

[GKC]

With all due respect, you have argued against ecumenical efforts between Lutherans and Catholics, regardless the source [including primarily the Holy See]. And have not offered one document to support your position that the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue is meaningless. Or that the magisterium is against these Lutheran and Catholic declarations.

You don’t have to accept ecumenical work, many on CAF join you. Perhaps it is better to argue polemical differences that don’t reflect Church relations over the past century; some still claim that the earth is flat.

I have never questioned your motives, GKC.

I have no objection to ecumenical work. I also have a knowledge of what constitutes the RC magisterium and how this is developed. And it isn’t through joint meetings of delegates from non-Catholic churches, nor by the issuing of statements therefrom.

Let me know when the RC magisterium changes, and when you may, if you chose, receive
the Eucharist at a RC altar openly, and not with a wink or sub rosa. Or when the RCC accepts females in sacerdotal vestments as valid priests, or makes that point adiaphora with respect to establishing communion between you and them.

You consistently present the words of the ecumenical panels, not as consistently with the caveats that accompany them, as if the process is on the brink of making the sort of changes to the defined teaching of the RCC that would make full communion possible. Let me know when that happens. I’ll expect a citation of some formal RCC document, with the specified level of theological certainty appended.

GKC

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I have no objection to ecumenical work. I also have a knowledge of what constitutes the RC magisterium and how this is developed. And it isn’t through joint meetings of delegates from non-Catholic churches, nor by the issuing of statements therefrom.

Let me know when the RC magisterium changes, and when you may, if you chose, receive
the Eucharist at a RC altar openly, and not with a wink or sub rosa. Or when the RCC accepts females in sacerdotal vestments as valid priests, or makes that point adiaphora with respect to establishing communion between you and them.

You consistently present the words of the ecumenical panels, not as consistently with the caveats that accompany them, as if the process is on the brink of making the sort of changes to the defined teaching of the RCC that would make full communion possible. Let me know when that happens. I’ll expect a citation of some formal RCC document, with the specified level of theological certainty appended.

GKC

I likely will not address this issue with you, again.

 

[GKC]

I likely will not address this issue with you, again.

Understood.

I will continue to comment on your posts, as seems appropriate. You’re confusing the children.

GKC

 

[SteveVH]

I likely will not address this issue with you, again.

After reading the back and forth here, that is probably a wise decision.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I like your avatar, a lot

Here’s a larger photo

 

[EvangelCatholic]

While the LWF aren’t necessarily my cup of tea all the time, we should listen when our fellow Christians speak. The LWF aren’t completely sound, but neither are they completely beyond the pale. If there’s one thing we can learn from the history of the Church, it’s that pulling up the drawbridge will reinforce differences rather than encourage a change of heart.

The Lutheran World Federation does not represent Lutherans per se. Lutherans are represented by doctrine as expressed in the Confessions. The dialogue with Rome has been under the auspices of the LWF.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Just a wee correction.

The Catholic Church is not Roman.
There are dozens of rites in the Catholic Church, and the Latin, or Roman rite, is just one of them.

The Church is Catholic, and is comprised of dozens of sui juris different cultural components, only one of them Latin. The Latin rite happens to be the largest, and the most known.

Yes I knew that before your correction. But on a non Catholic subforum where the topic is Protestants such as this thread, since I know there are Lutherans and Episcopalians who might consider themselves Catholic but not Roman, I’ve just found it clearer for me to use RCC when I am referring to your church. So there’s no confusion which church I am referring to. That’s the only reason I say RCC. But I mean no slight whatsoever towards the other Catholic rites. Probably I’m like that because during my own journey into Protestantism, more than one Episcopal priest including a former RC priest now a priest in TEC, explained to me they believe they are Catholic but not Roman. I understand however the teaching of your church is they are not among the rites.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Here’s a larger photo

EvangelCatholic–You’d probably enjoy a visit to St.John’s Lutheran church in center city Allentown, Pa, should you get down this way.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Here’s a larger photo

Thanks!

 

[benhur]

Yeah. And I’d like to know how many Christian denominations there are.

I’ve been asking someone to give me a quote and the source to back it up, but so far no one has been able to answer.

justforcatholics.org/a86.htm cites source for the 20,000 folks like to misquote.

 

[Annie39]

I don’t know, but it could be due to all coffee and donuts they give out in their church lobbies. Food makes for happy worshipers. Heck, we have fried chicken in our mosque on Fridays.

I’m just curious feel free not to reply. Are you and ex-Catholic? I’m interested in why you are on CAF. Is the fried chicken good? If so do you have the recipe?

Annie

 

[GKC]

Yes. The World Christian Encyclopedia and its related publication, World Christian Trends, are the likely sources for these figures. And the increase to in the 30K+ range since 1982 tracks in the updates to these publications. The total figures are derived from an idiosyncratic method they use to define a denomination. In their words, a denomination is defined for their purposes as “Any agency consisting of a number of congregations or churches voluntarily aligning themselves with it. As a statistical unit in this survey, a ‘denomination’ always refers to one single country. Thus the Roman Catholic Church, although a single organization, is described here as consisting of 236 denominations in the world’s 238 countries.”

None of which is to say that there are not a whole lot of denominations out there. But it does say that few folks who use the figures know where they came from or how they were derived.

GKC

 

[PRmerger]

justforcatholics.org/a86.htm cites source for the 20,000 folks like to misquote.

Tthat website is notoriously anti-Catholic, Ben.

But I will see if the number he cites has validity.

 

[GKC]

Tthat website is notoriously anti-Catholic, Ben.

But I will see if the number he cites has validity.

You could also trust me. I am not notoriously anti-Catholic.

GKC

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Lets watch the websites we link guys.
No need to give certain groups free publicity.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes I knew that before your correction. But on a non Catholic subforum where the topic is Protestants such as this thread, since I know there are Lutherans and Episcopalians who might consider themselves Catholic but not Roman, I’ve just found it clearer for me to use RCC when I am referring to your church. So there’s no confusion which church I am referring to. That’s the only reason I say RCC. But I mean no slight whatsoever towards the other Catholic rites. Probably I’m like that because during my own journey into Protestantism, more than one Episcopal priest including a former RC priest now a priest in TEC, explained to me they believe they are Catholic but not Roman. I understand however the teaching of your church is they are not among the rites.

Okey dokey, then.