What are some true deal-breakers for Catholics?

[AdamP88]

I think some people can have problems in their past and get over them. I know someone who had a problem with alcohol in their 20s who hasn’t had a problem with it for 25 years. So should that person have been ruled out? Not necessarily. Perhaps more discernment, but God does allow redemption.

Yes. As Catholics we should all be open to the effects grace and prayer can have on someone. As well as being discerning.

 

[PseuTonym]

Not to derail the thread, but…really?

I was looking to see some redeeming value in what initially seemed to be “avoid the victim” and effectively “punish the victim with ostracism” (which seems to be worse than “blame the victim but don’t actually punish the victim”).

Now, if two people are beginning to date each other, and one discloses a checklist that includes the item “No abuse current or past perpetrator or victim”, then somebody who repeatedly mentions having been abused in the past will be aware of self-classifying as failing that item in the checklist.

On the other hand, it’s not clear where is the line of division from merely unpleasant interactions with an authority figure to actual abuse at the hands of an authority figure.

The danger arises of a policy of denial. Nothing was wrong, and nothing is wrong, and thus problems cannot be resolved because they cannot even be acknowledged. It depends upon how strictly the “No past abuse victim” rule is being applied, and whether or not somebody wants to be very careful to minimize the risk of being classified as a victim of past abuse.

 

[PseuTonym]

Not to derail the thread, but…really?

I was simply commenting on Hoosier Daddy’s checklist of “guidance I would give my children.” You can quote Hoosier Daddy’s checklist, and post your own analysis of it.

I made it convenient for you with that link.

However, beware that you might get spanked …
I don’t use objects. I just don’t deem them necessary. I do spank. And I would resent anyone who would seek to ban that.

I found a disapproval Smilie :tsktsk:
Is there a spanking Smilie?

 

[augustinegirl]

Years ago I remember someone saying there are two types of people in this world. One type looks at you blankly, gets embarrassed, and changes the subject when you tell them you are a believing, practicing Catholic. The other says in response,“That’s interesting; I’d like to hear more about it.” Try it as a test, and go for the second type of person.

^^^ That is exactly why I’m open to other Christians. Of course there are some who are anti-Catholic, but I’ve actually been surprised by how many people I’ve known like to engage in those conversations, and few (a much smaller amount) actually make the change toward that. I’ve dated a few Catholic guys who just…weren’t where I hoped they would be. The best way I can put this is, they valued Mass and the Sacraments and the rules of the Church, but it was kind of…rigid. There didn’t seem to be much of a relationship with Jesus and the necessary love that flows from that relationship. That’s an issue to me. How am I supposed to grow towards sainthood (vice versa) if there’s no love involved in the relationship with God?

 

[bmaj]

Deal breaker for me would be anyone who is anti-Catholic or believes that my political leanings aren’t proper (sorry if that rules out about half the country if you live in the U.S. right now…) I would also not marry a man who views porn or believes there is nothing wrong with it. Since many men might not admit to viewing it, I’d have to have a heart-to-heart conversation about the subject before any type of serious involvement. A heavy drinker or big-time gambler would be a deal-breaker, too. Just some thoughts from a woman married several decades and praying for several more with our Lord’s help. Good luck, and God bless!

 

[augustinegirl]

In all things notoriously polarizing, one should spend careful time, discussion, and consideration. They may be a deal breaker for one person and not for another. These are, in the end, intensely personal decisions.

I have many friends of different faiths and political beliefs, but it gets much harder for me in dating relationships when that happens.

Know thyself.

I was only generalizing a lot because my post was already long haha. I agree with some things you said, but I had a question about non-Catholics because…my dad was a non-Catholic and is now the spiritual leader of our household and I have two brothers-in-law who are the same way. That’s why I personally wouldn’t be opposed to a non-Catholic, or a non-practicing one. The “non-practicing” comes into play because some people’s families never made that a priority and it hasn’t yet occurred to them in their adulthood to seek out the faith. Great example of this is one of my friends. Her family never went to church. She is actively seeking to be a better person and is now going to Mass because she has realized that this will aide her, though she never thought of it before we invited her to come with us to Mass. I think God likes to use us as instruments for people who haven’t yet been presented with His love.

 

[EasterJoy]

Here is the guidance I would give my children.

1. Must be a practicing Catholic
2. No abuse current or past perpetrator or victim.
3. No drug or alcohol abuse past or present
   4 no criminal record.
4. No previous marriages or kids.
5. Thier friends must be like them in character.

What does “no abuse” mean in #2? No one who has been the victim of sexual abuse or no one who has parents who are on the wrong side of cracked in the nut? (What if the *spanking *crossed a line at times?)

What does “no alcohol abuse” mean? Never got drunk? Never got drunk on purpose? Never got drunk on purpose more than once? Abuse and addiction are NOT the same thing.

Then you expand it to “their friends must be like them in character.” Not good enough to find one Prince Charming; he has to have found a crowd of princes to run with, too? That lets out a lot of candidates.

I am surprised you did not also exclude people whose parents are divorced. Also not included is whether the man is employed full-time and likely to stay that way, which (statistically speaking, mind you) is a major predictor of divorce. Also not on the list: giving themselves permission to engage in the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse during conflicts: personal attacks, expressions of contempt, defensiveness and stone-walling (the silent treatment).

Of course, the problem with these lists coming from parents is that having a list of what to look for in a spouse that you got from Daddy or Mommy doesn’t exactly catapult you to the top of anybody’s “what I’m looking for” list, either.

 

[augustinegirl]

Well… I don’t entirely agree with the “don’t try to change people” idea. That’s a little too general a statement. Otherwise, I’d never correct my kids when they misbehave, and we’d never have discussions about any subject on which we disagree, even if someone has the wrong information! Neither of those would be very loving responses.

We shouldn’t be trying to mold someone into our own little ideal, of course, or be controlling or manipulative, especially if it’s only about our own preferences, but that’s not to say that we should never try to get someone to change what they do or believe or say. We should, mostly by our own actions and example, be encouraging others to change for the better (especially our spouses).

But you are right in that we cannot force or manipulate people to change, and shouldn’t try.

That is a good point! I do believe that I see the distinction, I just didn’t want to have to over-explain because I already have a tendency to do that haha. But I certainly know that my desire is for someone who wants me to get to heaven, wants to get to heaven himself, would want the same for children, and challenges me along with the support he provides.
…

There is a balance here, and it’s not always easy to find, but it’s about Christian love and respect for one another. Yet that doesn’t always mean doing what is “nice” or tolerating bad behavior just to avoid hurt feelings or discomfort.

I think it’s the “Christian love and respect for one another” that made me open to non-Catholics because I know that some men can be incredible people without being Catholic…at the same time you’re right below when you say that you’re not meant to marry every possible good mate haha.

…

My husband and I are converts to Catholicism, and I would suggest NOT dating men who are not practicing Catholics. You’re looking for someone with whom to share a life, and to build a family. Why would you start out dating someone who you already know has values, beliefs, and ideas about life and faith that conflict with yours?

I think this to me was more about my own experience in my family. As I told another post-er, it’s an odd factor that is present in my family that a spouse converts and ends up being the spiritual leader. My father and two of my brothers-in-law are this way.

…

Trust God to give you opportunities to find a spouse if He’s calling you to marriage. And don’t worry; there isn’t just one person with whom you could spend a lifetime in marriage. It’s okay to let a man go who isn’t the right husband for you (even if he’d make a “great catch” for someone else), or who doesn’t agree with your faith, even if he doesn’t do anything to truly offend you. After all, you definitely can’t marry every good and holy single man you meet, Catholic or otherwise!

Haha good advice!
…

As for the rest… Focus on what God is asking of you, and the rest will fall into place. Are you doing what you should be doing, or letting things slide? Eventually, that will be reflected in your romantic relationships, too.

Our relationship with God comes first, and that shouldn’t change in marriage.

^^^ I think that’s very important for me. I put my relationship with God first and obviously want God at the center of a marriage, but it’s good to be reminded that slipping responsibilities in my daily life could indicate that happening elsewhere.

 

[augustinegirl]

I was happy to meet a nice guy who didn’t hassle me about my faith or much of anything else, made me laugh, was a responsible person who paid his bills and took his job and career seriously, was open to but not obsessed about the concept of marriage and kids, wasn’t a spendthrift but also wasn’t tight with a buck, and demonstrated his caring about me in a lot of thoughtful ways. I liked his blue eyes and nice head of hair too.

He is a (mostly non practicing) Protestant and is registered in a different political party than me. It doesn’t much matter. I would like him to be Catholic so I pray for that, but he helps me to be a better Catholic and a better person so he is doing his bit whether or not he converts.

Thank you for your response! Might be personal and I didn’t even see if you mentioned anything about kids, but was he supportive in the way you wanted to raise kids and passing on the faith?

 

[EasterJoy]

1. Doesn’t know how to negotiate a conflict without resorting to emotional abuse or blackmail.
2. Uses bullying tactics to get his or her way
3. Has a healthy sense of give and take: neither tries to always be the one doing for others nor expects everyone else’s plans to revolve around him or her.
4. Self-medicates difficulties with alcohol, drugs, shopping, or other behaviors that develop into addictions or “can’t have fun” without this kind of thing…as in “Oh, man, I need a drink.”
5. Cannot reasonably be expected to be an asset instead of an obstacle or “neutral force” in practicing your faith and raising your children Catholic. That normally means Catholic, but there are a lot of people out there who want their children raised in a one-faith home more than they want to continue in whatever it is they were raised with. (I know of one such man who did such a good job supporting his family of Catholics that he was asked if he wanted to run for parish council. The family was very observant, volunteered a lot, and no one had ever noticed that he did not go to Holy Communion.) A person who is “neutral” about your faith will probably grow to resent your religious duties eventually, however.
6. Has friends he intends to keep that you would want as your friends. (It is wrong to isolate someone from friends he wants to keep.)

I don’t know that I would call those “deal-breakers” so much as red flags. Yes, that normally means deal-breaker, but the main thing is for our children to realize that discriminating on the basis of whether or not someone is a good match for us is not the same as judging them to be an inferior human being. Using intuition without any concrete idea of how to rationally discriminate between a good match and a bad one is not a good idea.

In my experience, a parent who even appears to presume to impose rules for finding a spouse on an adult child is also a red flag, however. You discuss the kinds of things that lead to problems, how to spot them and what you’re letting yourself in for, but if you act as if this is in any way your decision to make on behalf of your adult child, you’re on thin ice. (Not that the OP actually said otherwise, mind you.)

 

[augustinegirl]

Hi!

…then there’s that old Sacrament of Marriage thing… is that what you want?

Yes.

…my experience has been that when Catholics marry or pursuit relationships with non-Catholics, marginal Catholics or non-Believers… that Catholic soon turns anti-Catholic, Protestant, or atheist… though there’s no format/rule to this… it could well be that he/she would spend the next ten to forty years leapfrogging from sect to sect and maybe then return to Catholicism (what turmoil for the families and the children!); then you have the casualty of the Catholic being the means by which the non-Catholic or non-Believer converts… the odds are not in favor, in the most part.

 

[augustinegirl]

My parents are from a ‘mixed marriage’. My dad is Protestant, although nonobservant. He’ll come to Catholic Church for big days like weddings and baptisms. Funerals are a little spotty. My mom told me it’s lonesome to not share her faith and go to church alone.

A very valuable insight. Thank you for sharing this! Definitely something to pray/think about. I’m very happy that you and your husband found one another!!

As a Catholic you should be open to kids. The belief that you can ‘plan’ your family is actually a myth. Good luck with planning personality, let alone hair and stature. Numbers of children do you mean? Well, you might want three and pregnancy number 2 hands you the miracles of humor, Quads.
And then, you might get smacked with the desire for a big family, and the inability to have one.
This is sad.

Very true. I guess my point was that I’d hope for a big family…but maybe I’m not even supposed to put those parameters on it, because I will have as many kids as God wants me to have.

My mother, who often gave me some advice and who never seemed to understand me, gave me some terrific advice before I married my dh. “Honey everybody isn’t perfect. Everyone has issues (she used a different word ). Ask yourself what issues are you willing to put up with?”

Yes, I have heard this and will keep it in mind.

We have had a marriage where we are accepting and loving, but the goal is as St. Charles of Austria said to his bride Zita, to “help each other get to heaven,”.

I’ve heard that many times but now I have to look up St. Charles of Austria!

One excellent way to practice patience is to be the person you would want to raise your children.

I like this. Thank you!

 

[EasterJoy]

I wouldn’t write off the idea of having a few criteria that you are not prepared to compromise.

I wouldn’t, either. Romantic attraction is famously fickle and blind. It is wise to have thought about things you do not want to ignore in your blind eagerness to be a fit with someone whose company you enjoy greatly. Enjoying each other’s company is not enough to dismiss all concerns. Knowing what your concerns ought to be in advance is prudent, like having a fire escape plan. Don’t count on yourself to be thinking clearly when the moments of decision come. You could wind up either making a bad match or stringing along a person who deserves to know early on that you’re not going to sign on the dotted line in the end.

 

[augustinegirl]

That being said, I looked more at the person than their category (Catholic/Christian, Democrat or Republican, etc)

I like this.

Is he truthful? Is he trustworthy? Does he hold the same values as I do? (Porn is wrong. Cursing is unacceptable. No drugs, smoking, piercings or tats.) Does he treat me (and my beliefs and ideas) with respect and dignity?

And that is why I wonder about people of other faiths. Of course there are good Catholics, but what if God wants me to date and be with someone who didn’t start as a good Catholic, but a person of good character? Catholicism is obviously about Jesus and the plan of salvation, but ultimately as Catholics we should be living out love. I would imagine that someone who is truly loving must honestly be open to God and the truth.

Neither of us have the exact same beliefs and understandings of anything (religion, politics, etc) we did when we were much younger - but because of the above traits we’ve been able to learn and grow and become much more than we were then (when we got marriage). Lots of stuff we still disagree with (role of government for example) but we disagree with respect that the other has a good solid set of reasons for believing as they do.

Now he happened to be Catholic, but honestly that was a bonus (made things much easier) - but with the firm foundation of shared values (God, family, virtues) I believe we would have been okay even if he’d been of another faith.

Thank you for all of that!

 

[augustinegirl]

Here is the guidance I would give my children.

1. Must be a practicing Catholic
2. No abuse current or past perpetrator or victim.
3. No drug or alcohol abuse past or present
   4 no criminal record.
4. No previous marriages or kids.
5. Thier friends must be like them in character.

A few of these are good, but there are a few I certainly wouldn’t adopt. As other people have said, I do believe that victims of abuse can work through that in therapy and though it might have been your deal-breaker, I think it’s very unfair to use as a general rule. No one is perfect, and victims never asked to be abused.

Previous marriages make sense, because even an annulled marriage isn’t truly a Sacramental marriage. The previous kids thing…once again, that doesn’t seem loving at all. It’s something that makes things harder, definitely, but it doesn’t make that person dirty or damaged just because they have a kid.

And the friends similar in character one - I think it’s very important to watch how someone’s friends act. They say “show me your friends and I’ll show you who you are.” At the same time, however, if someone has been friends with another person since childhood, they might not have the same values, and that’s okay. Jesus didn’t just cut people off because they didn’t have his values, he just didn’t let them influence his own life, and in fact he challenged them to change (but he usually did it in the context of a loving relationship).

 

[augustinegirl]

I think some people can have problems in their past and get over them. I know someone who had a problem with alcohol in their 20s who hasn’t had a problem with it for 25 years. So should that person have been ruled out? Not necessarily. Perhaps more discernment, but God does allow redemption.

Thank you. God redeems (usually takes years of hard work but He does).

 

[augustinegirl]

Deal breaker for me would be anyone who is anti-Catholic or believes that my political leanings aren’t proper (sorry if that rules out about half the country if you live in the U.S. right now…) I would also not marry a man who views porn or believes there is nothing wrong with it. Since many men might not admit to viewing it, I’d have to have a heart-to-heart conversation about the subject before any type of serious involvement. A heavy drinker or big-time gambler would be a deal-breaker, too. Just some thoughts from a woman married several decades and praying for several more with our Lord’s help. Good luck, and God bless!

Thank you for the advice!

 

[MichaelP3]

What does “no abuse” mean in #2? No one who has been the victim of sexual abuse or no one who has parents who are on the wrong side of cracked in the nut? (What if the *spanking *crossed a line at times?)

What does “no alcohol abuse” mean? Never got drunk? Never got drunk on purpose? Never got drunk on purpose more than once? Abuse and addiction are NOT the same thing.

Then you expand it to “their friends must be like them in character.” Not good enough to find one Prince Charming; he has to have found a crowd of princes to run with, too? That lets out a lot of candidates.

I am surprised you did not also exclude people whose parents are divorced. Also not included is whether the man is employed full-time and likely to stay that way, which (statistically speaking, mind you) is a major predictor of divorce. Also not on the list: giving themselves permission to engage in the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse during conflicts: personal attacks, expressions of contempt, defensiveness and stone-walling (the silent treatment).

Of course, the problem with these lists coming from parents is that having a list of what to look for in a spouse that you got from Daddy or Mommy doesn’t exactly catapult you to the top of anybody’s “what I’m looking for” list, either.

Agreed. If my wife got that list from her daddy we would not even have gotten a remote chance.

And not that I am the one to judge but it seems we are doing quite good compared to her sister who’s husband fulfilled all those requirements

Side note : My family in law are all very Catholic.

 

[augustinegirl]

1. Doesn’t know how to negotiate a conflict without resorting to emotional abuse or blackmail.
2. Uses bullying tactics to get his or her way
3. Has a healthy sense of give and take: neither tries to always be the one doing for others nor expects everyone else’s plans to revolve around him or her.
4. Self-medicates difficulties with alcohol, drugs, shopping, or other behaviors that develop into addictions or “can’t have fun” without this kind of thing…as in “Oh, man, I need a drink.”
5. Cannot reasonably be expected to be an asset instead of an obstacle or “neutral force” in practicing your faith and raising your children Catholic. That normally means Catholic, but there are a lot of people out there who want their children raised in a one-faith home more than they want to continue in whatever it is they were raised with. (I know of one such man who did such a good job supporting his family of Catholics that he was asked if he wanted to run for parish council. The family was very observant, volunteered a lot, and no one had ever noticed that he did not go to Holy Communion.) A person who is “neutral” about your faith will probably grow to resent your religious duties eventually, however.
6. Has friends he intends to keep that you would want as your friends. (It is wrong to isolate someone from friends he wants to keep.)

Thank you! I really like your list. It’s very practical and helpful. I liked your #5 a lot. I know a man very similar to that. His wife is very involved in our church and in turn he is too. I didn’t know he was Catholic for about a year, and I was surprised to find that out! Those people are probably very rare but very admirable. And #6 is very interesting as well, and something I’ve never heard anyone say but it’s very good advice.

 

[augustinegirl]

Agreed. If my wife got that list from her daddy we would not even have gotten a remote chance.

And not that I am the one to judge but it seems we are doing quite good compared to her sister who’s husband fulfilled all those requirements

I am so incredibly sorry that you have experienced abuse. I hope that you know that most people do not feel the way that the post-er did who lumped victims in with perpetrators. Praise God that you are where you are. I do hope that you have found some healing, though I’d imagine it’s not something you can just get over.

It is very hard for some people to accept that life isn’t always black and white and people cannot be boxed into categories. Victims of abuse are not guilty, nor are they doomed to being abusive themselves.