What are the books that protestants took out of the Bible?

[Mason1971]

Deuterocanonical books in the New Testament

From: ScriptureCatholic.com
Matt. 2:16 - Herod’s decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt… 7:12 - Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God’s Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus’ description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth’s declaration of Mary’s blessedness above all women follows Uzziah’s declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary’s magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon’s declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord’s description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus’ usage of “fall by the edge of the sword” follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke’s description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus’, Luke’s and Paul’s usage of “signs and wonders” follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus’ Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 - branches that don’t bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Acts 1:15 - Luke’s reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter’s and Paul’s statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul’s teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God’s existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.

1 Cor. 2:16 - Paul’s question, “who has known the mind of the Lord?” references Wisdom 9:13.

1 Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26 - warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30.

1 Cor. 8:5-6 - Paul acknowledging many “gods” but one Lord follows Wis. 13:3.

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul’s description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to Wisdom 19:7.

1 Cor. 10:20 - what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to Baruch 4:7.

See next Post

They appear to be random words or in some of the ones I looked at the DC and the NT are quoting Isaiah or the Psalms.

This list is horribly weak.
They are canonical because the Church said they are
Don’t need to lie about quotes.

 

[workingman]

One thing I will say about the DC’s is you need to carfully look at the context that it is writen in. What can appear like a contradiction usualy is not.

 

[Peter_J]

Deuterocanonical books in the New Testament

From: ScriptureCatholic.com
Matt. 2:16 - Herod’s decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Although I believe in the Deuterocanonical books, this particular argument doesn’t seem so great to me. Here’s Wisdom 11:1-8

 1  She made their affairs prosper through the holy prophet.

2 They journeyed through the uninhabited desert, and in solitudes they pitched their tents;
3 they withstood enemies and took vengeance on their foes.
4 When they thirsted, they called upon you, and water was given them from the sheer rock, assuagement for their thirst from the hard stone.
5 For by the things through which their foes were punished they in their need were benefited.
6 Instead of a spring, when the perennial river was troubled with impure blood
7 as a rebuke to the decree for the slaying of infants, You gave them abundant water in an unhoped-for way,
8 once you had shown by the thirst they then had how you punished their adversaries.

It seems pretty clear that it’s talking about what happened in Exodus, not prophesying future events. Indeed, at usccb.org/nab/bible/wisdom/wisdom11.htm there’s a footnote on verses 6-8, “The perennial river: the Nile; the contrast is between the first plague of Egypt ( Exodus 7:17-24 ) and the water drawn from the rock in Horeb ( Exodus 17:5-7 ;Numbers 20:8-11 ).”

 

[Peter_J]

P.S. As long as we’re discussing ScriptureCatholic.com, I found this in their list of quotations:

“[T]he sacred writers to whom the Son has revealed Him, have given us a certain image from things visible, saying, ‘Who is the brightness of His glory, and the Expression of His Person;’[Heb 1:3] and again, ‘For with Thee is the well of life, and in Thy light shall we see lights;’[Ps 36:9] and when the Word chides lsrael, He says, ‘Thou hast forsaken the Fountain of wisdom’[Baruch 3:12]; and this Fountain it is which says, ‘They have forsaken Me the Fountain of living waters’[Jer 2:13].” Athanasius, Defense of the Nicene Faith, 2:12 (A.D. 351).

“[F]or it is written of the other, ‘The foolish person will speak foolishness’ [Is 32:6 LXX]; but of these, ‘Ask counsel of all that are wise’[Tobit 4:18].” Athanasius, Defense before Constantius, 17 (A.D. 357).

 

[Peter_J]

As for the Apocrypha, it also contains several proven errors and contradicts inspired Scripture.

What would those be?

 

[Roy5]

JEWISH AND PROTESTANT OLD TESTAMENTS

The Protestant Old Testament is the same as that found in Jewish synagogues. The books that do not appear in the Protestant OT canon often are placed between the OT and NT - the OT Apocrypha. Protestant churches sometimes read from them, but treat them with somewhat less authority than the other 39 books.

 It is questionable, however, to assert that Protestants took the books out of the OT. They simply followed the Jewish pattern. There are cogent 'arguments' to justify both the Catholic and Protestant position, but why do so many people seem to be looking for differences among Christians rather than what they share together, which is Christ?

 

[Chellow]

They appear to be random words or in some of the ones I looked at the DC and the NT are quoting Isaiah or the Psalms.

This list is horribly weak.
They are canonical because the Church said they are
Don’t need to lie about quotes.

It’s sad you think I’m a liar, I’m sorry with what I believe as truth, disturbs you so. By your statement I can’t continue to defend my self to you, because a liar will lie again. :blackeye:

 

[Chellow]

Although I believe in the Deuterocanonical books, this particular argument doesn’t seem so great to me. Here’s Wisdom 11:1-8

 1  She made their affairs prosper through the holy prophet.

2 They journeyed through the uninhabited desert, and in solitudes they pitched their tents;
3 they withstood enemies and took vengeance on their foes.
4 When they thirsted, they called upon you, and water was given them from the sheer rock, assuagement for their thirst from the hard stone.
5 For by the things through which their foes were punished they in their need were benefited.
6 Instead of a spring, when the perennial river was troubled with impure blood
7 as a rebuke to the decree for the slaying of infants, You gave them abundant water in an unhoped-for way,
8 once you had shown by the thirst they then had how you punished their adversaries.

It seems pretty clear that it’s talking about what happened in Exodus, not prophesying future events. Indeed, at usccb.org/nab/bible/wisdom/wisdom11.htm there’s a footnote on verses 6-8, “The perennial river: the Nile; the contrast is between the first plague of Egypt ( Exodus 7:17-24 ) and the water drawn from the rock in Horeb ( Exodus 17:5-7 ;Numbers 20:8-11 ).”

While your right I think the author of the ScriptureCatholic.com is pointing out the use of word style, like for instant if I say “Fourscore and six years ago man took first flight.” I’m not quoting the Gettysburg Address but by my style you know I’m aware of the Gettysburg Address.

 

[Chellow]

JEWISH AND PROTESTANT OLD TESTAMENTS

The Protestant Old Testament is the same as that found in Jewish synagogues. The books that do not appear in the Protestant OT canon often are placed between the OT and NT - the OT Apocrypha. Protestant churches sometimes read from them, but treat them with somewhat less authority than the other 39 books.

 It is questionable, however, to assert that Protestants took the books out of the OT. They simply followed the Jewish pattern. There are cogent 'arguments' to justify both the Catholic and Protestant position, but why do so many people seem to be looking for differences among Christians rather than what they share together, which is Christ?

I’ll quote a Father Joseph from answers.com whom states it better than me.

“In first century Jerusalem there were at least four OT Canons in use by different Jewish Groups. There was the Canon of the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Ethiopian Jews and the Diaspora/Essene Jews. Jesus and the disciples used the Septuagint which was the Canon of the Diaspora/Essenes. We know this because it is quoted in the New Testament. This Canon continued to be the Canon of Christians until after the Reformation and, in fact until about 200 years ago when the Protestants adopted a condensed version of the Canon eliminating the Deuterocanonicals from their Bibles. Even the AKJ originally contained the complete Christian Canon. It has been said by critics of Christ’s Church that the Deuterocanonicals were never believed to be inspired and just the opposite is true. The decision by Christians as to which books are inspired and useful for teaching was decided at the African Synods in the late fourth and early fifth century. There was never a question about their inspiration.

The OT Canon chosen by the Protestants is actually a Jewish Canon not chosen by the Jews until after the establishment of Christianity as a result of the spread of Christianity to slow the growth of the new group in Jerusalem after the fall of the Temple in 70AD. Until then as I said previously there were many Canons in use. The adoption of the Canon missing the Deuterocanonicals united the Jews against the Christians was decided in the Jewish Council of Jamnia because the Deuterocanonicals referred too strongly to the Messiah fulfilled in Christ.

Some Protestants will claim that only the Jews have the authority to choose Canon but the Church deferred that decision to Christ and the disciples and it is clear through biblical research, that the Septuagint is the Bible used by the first century Church and quoted in the NT Scriptures. The fact that Protestants choose to adopt the Canon that was approved by the same Jews that accused our Lord that resulted in His crucifixion suggests the source of this confusion as from the father of lies who led the Pharisees to accuse Christ and petition for His punishment. It is another way that Satan divides the body of Christ and separates the faithful denying Christ’s prayer that we all be one in Christ through His Church. The Christian Church has always used the Septuagint as Canon and never the truncated version of modernist Protestants.

Some Protestants erroneously believe that Catholics added to the Bible with the Deuterocanonicals but this shows an ignorance of their own history and the history of Christianity as witnessed by Christ’s Church. The facts are that the Protestants removed the Deuterocanonicals and even considered strongly to remove some of the NT books currently in use by Protestants and Catholics. Fr. Martin Luther was in favor of removing the book of James because it conflicted with His heretical man made doctrines of the “Solas”, Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. The heretic Ulrich Zwingli wanted to remove the Gospel of John because of its teaching of the commandment to Eat Christ’s Body and drink His Blood which contradicted his view of a real absence of Christ instead of a real presence in the Eucharist. Even Fr. Martin Luther could not endorse such a departure from Scriptures and deny that Christ is truly and really present in the Eucharist in Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. “

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

JEWISH AND PROTESTANT OLD TESTAMENTS

The Protestant Old Testament is the same as that found in Jewish synagogues. The books that do not appear in the Protestant OT canon often are placed between the OT and NT - the OT Apocrypha. Protestant churches sometimes read from them, but treat them with somewhat less authority than the other 39 books.

 It is questionable, however, to assert that Protestants took the books out of the OT. They simply followed the Jewish pattern. There are cogent 'arguments' to justify both the Catholic and Protestant position, but why do so many people seem to be looking for differences among Christians rather than what they share together, which is Christ?

For many years Evangelicals and Protestants proclaimed from the roof tops that the Catholic church added books to the bible, when the “TRUTH” of the matter is Protestants removed from the already canonized Christian bible 7 books. Now you say today that Protestants did not remove them, they just followed the Jewish canon? Am I to be convinced by you that the Catholic church follows Jesus and the apostles, and Protestants follow Jews who reject the New Testament and persecuted the Early Catholic church?

Maybe it should be said, The Catholic church canonized the Christian bible as inspired by God, and the Protestant faith rejected 7 of the books from the orginal Christian canon of scripture as “apochryphal” not inspired of God. And let “TRUTH” set us free from trying to justify the works of the evil one.

From this view, is not looking for differences among our seperated brethern, but revealing the "Truth"and correcting the false claims today made by protestants yesterday about the Catholic bible. True as you say, Christians believe or as you say “Share Christ”. It follows then what the bible states; “there is only one faith, one Lord, one baptism and one Church” but which church today is the one Jesus built upon Peter, according to the bible? This is not seeking differences but revealing 2000 year old Christian teaching from Jesus and the apostles through his body in the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Roy5]

Gabriel of 12 - 'one church’
"One faith, one Lord and one baptism" - fine. But help me find the specific reference to 'one church'? I guess I missed it. Sorry.

 

[Peter_J]

While your right I think the author of the ScriptureCatholic.com is pointing out the use of word style,

I guess I would have to see what translation he/she is using (or I could learn Greek ). In the NAB, Matt. 2:16 reads:

"When Herod realized that he had been deceived by the magi, he became furious. He ordered the massacre of all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had ascertained from the magi. "

and Wisdom 11:7 reads

“as a rebuke to the decree for the slaying of infants, You gave them abundant water in an unhoped-for way,”

I don’t see a striking similarity of word style. That’s not to say that Matthew wasn’t thinking of the massacre in Exodus, but I’m not convinced that he was thinking specifically of the verse from Wisdom.

Plus, I don’t think it’s correct to say that ScriptureCatholic.com is just referring to word style, since it specifically says, “Matt. 2:16 - Herod’s decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.”

 

[Peter_J]

Chellow, I wouldn’t put too much stock in what you read at answers.com. Basically anybody can just put whatever statements they want there.

 

[CAS64]

What would those be?

Oh gosh, where to begin? Ecclesiasticus is full of them. There are also chronological errors as well as geographical ones and contradictions. Plenty of evidence to dismiss them as being strongly authoritative as the Scriptures are.

 

[Chellow]

Chellow, I wouldn’t put too much stock in what you read at answers.com. Basically anybody can just put whatever statements they want there.

Agree

 

[Chellow]

Oh gosh, where to begin? Ecclesiasticus is full of them. There are also chronological errors as well as geographical ones and contradictions. Plenty of evidence to dismiss them as being strongly authoritative as the Scriptures are.

We can debate this till we all turn red, so tell me who has the authority to add or remove any book from the bible you, me and tell me why. Don’t tell me that the bible fell from the sky.

 

[Peter_J]

Oh gosh, where to begin? Ecclesiasticus is full of them. There are also chronological errors as well as geographical ones and contradictions. Plenty of evidence to dismiss them as being strongly authoritative as the Scriptures are.

Could you give just a few good examples?

 

[CAS64]

We can debate this till we all turn red, so tell me who has the authority to add or remove any book from the bible you, me and tell me why. Don’t tell me that the bible fell from the sky.

Your insulting demeanor isn’t appreciated or appropriate. I’m sure that you would like nothing more than to force feed the notion that the Catholic church created, assembled and has the ultimate authority over the Scriptures today, but you won’t be able to feed that to me, sorry. The proof is in the pudding my friend and you don’t have it. It doesn’t exist.

 

[CAS64]

Could you give just a few good examples?

Baruch says that the Jews would serve Babylon for 7 generations. Jeremiah says 70 years.

Macc 8:10 Nicanor wanted to pay 2,000 talents to the Romans, the Seleucids were not under the authority or the Romans.

 

[Chellow]

Your insulting demeanor isn’t appreciated or appropriate. I’m sure that you would like nothing more than to force feed the notion that the Catholic church created, assembled and has the ultimate authority over the Scriptures today, but you won’t be able to feed that to me, sorry. The proof is in the pudding my friend and you don’t have it. It doesn’t exist.

I’m sorry it was not meant to be insulting, the question though is who did assemble the bible. Do you have any resource other then Church councils.