Or maybe it is carried over from the earliest days of the church where many of the first Christians were Jews themselves and simply kept referring to these people as Moses or Elijah because saying Saint Moses or Saint Elijah was not really a “thing” yet. No need to call the Church anti-semetic when simpler, more likely, answers will do.
I did not call the Church anti-Semitic. Clearly she is not. I just said that it “feels vaguely anti-Semitic to me”. I said “feels”, not “is”.HomeschoolDad:
Or maybe it is carried over from the earliest days of the church where many of the first Christians were Jews themselves and simply kept referring to these people as Moses or Elijah because saying Saint Moses or Saint Elijah was not really a “thing” yet. No need to call the Church anti-semetic when simpler, more likely, answers will do.
I think you’re overthinking in both cases.
Much like how like the term “Holy” in Spanish is “Santo” and in modern French is literally “Saint.”
HomeschoolDad:
I did not call the Church anti-Semitic. Clearly she is not. I just said that it “ feels vaguely anti-Semitic to me ”. I said “feels”, not “is”.
I think you’re overthinking in both cases.
While the “feels like anti-semitic” stuff It makes no sense, even after a brief experience with the Catholic Church, a person should have the impression that the Saints of the Old Testament are extremely honoured and loved by us. As to the “will become for us” it means “us”, as a human species, whose redemption could only be done by human-God Jesus. Like: his Sacrifice was literally done for us. Not for any other purpose. It is also said this way to emphasise our gratitude. Now through His Body and Blood we partake in it. Simple as that, no need to complicating
Hey do not worry, thinking about such things and reflecting on exactly what words we say is very good (to speak them as consciously/knowingly/wholeheartedly as possible).
The corresponding prayer in the TLM is “ut nobis”, which Father Stedman translates as “for our good”. The Roman Canon of the post-1969 Mass is identical in the original Latin.HomeschoolDad:
Hey do not worry, thinking about such things and reflecting on exactly what words we say is very good (to speak them as consciously/knowingly/wholeheartedly as possible).
But to think about such things they should be approached with humility and understanding that these words used during Mass and not others were used by inspiration of Holy Ghost; As the least likely possibility I would consider Holy Magisterium of the Church establishing particular wording for the ‘anti-semitic’ or ‘anti-inclusive’ (and any other ‘-anti’) purpose or consequently, any malicious purpose. Once again, Catholicism is characterised by beautiful simplicity. I would especially hesitate approaching that this way in our times, when many looks at the past through the lens of today’s social justice, and when present is the overwhelming desire to change everything to ‘more inclusive’ and outrage when someone does not want to do so.
That’s already been answered, though.
No. It’s an English thing because many other languages refer to them as St Moses, St Elijah.HomeschoolDad:
Or maybe it is carried over from the earliest days of the church where many of the first Christians were Jews themselves and simply kept referring to these people as Moses or Elijah because saying Saint Moses or Saint Elijah was not really a “thing” yet. No need to call the Church anti-semetic when simpler, more likely, answers will do.
Or maybe the other way around. They’re not called “saint” in Judaism, which (afaik) doesn’t have the idea of “sainthood”. Only God is holy, as in Isaiah 6:3, “Holy, holy, holy …”.
What is the reason that canonization is not applicable to those who lived before the formal process of canonization was in place?
That is my real question. What is the official answer to this
Catechism (CCC 61)
Wikipedia has a list of all the Old Covenant saints in the Roman Martyrology, and their feast days. I think all the OT prophets and patriarchs you’d expect to see are there. Except I think they forgot Elijah aka Elias, but he has a feast day on July 20 in both the Eastern Catholic Church and the Carmelite Order.