What are the main differences between Bible Christians and Catholics?

[benidict]

This is odd… if the first canon of the Scriptures did not come from the Catholic Church, where exactly did it come from? :yukonjoe:

my dear brother. i would most certainly say, it did Not come from nicolations…or the gnostics…or the arians…am i missing anyone? so who does that leave? hmmmm. i guess by going thru the process of elimination, historical text and evidence, for them to say it was not the Catholics who formulated the first cannon, would be a little off, correct?

 

[Cantor4JMJ]

Well the answer is quite simple really

Catholics practice what the bible teaches

AMEN! That was not defensive, that was truth in only 6 words!

 

[Cantor4JMJ]

Not sure about anyone else but my work schedule changes a lot. I am supposed to work 4 ten hour days but lately I’ve been working more like 3 on 4 off, 5 on 2 off so on and so forth.

God bless

Me too! 24/7 because I am a sahm/hs educator! works thing never seems to leave me alone

 

[benedictus2]

Hang on now! If you check; you will see quite a number of discussions here from the past where I tried to say I am not personally attacking Catholics; only certain beliefs. I have been told over and over that if I attack the belief; I attack the people. Why wouldn’t the same rule apply here?

Why would showing that a belief is corrupt be attacking the people. If there are flat earthers around and one said that flat-earth is a stupid belief would that attacking the flat earther. But of course before one makes such pronouncements, one has to be able to back up it.

In reference to 2 Cor 5:17, it is not something I was saying. It’s something that the Bible says. I offered absolutely no interpretation or explanation; I just quoted a verse that is related to the question you asked about being “in Christ.”

Okay, but I was asking how one can be in Christ?

Out of curiosity benedictus2, I would be interested to see if you had any other Bible verses that would be linked to this subject of being “in Christ.” How would you explain it from the Bible?

To me; someone can be “in Christ” no matter what denomination they are in. And I believe that is the direction that you are headed with that - how that one cannot be truly “in Christ” unless they are Roman Catholic…

St Peter when He spoke of Baptism, St Paul when wrote about the Body of Christ, the Gospels particular John 6, vine and branches, and others.

And I agree with what Benidict said as well. In the end, if one is In Christ, one becomes part of His Church - the Catholic Church.

 

[TimothyH]

I do not need to know where because I do it for the love of God and His grace, not because it is commanded or written.

And that is the whole point I am pointing at…why does it have to be written, don’t you do it out of your love and appreciation for your Creator? Same thing with weekly worship, why does it have to be written or commanded somewhere? What does your heart say? Not to do it because it is not written or commanded in the Bible. And if there is not a verse in the Bible, so you will not do it from now till the end of your earthly life?

Pablope

Every Catholic Church has Mass, which is our form of worship, every day of the year, sometimes even multiple times each day in big parishes. At any hour of the day or night, somewhere in the world, right now in fact, Mass is taking place and worship is being offered to God.

My parish has a perpetual adoration chapel which has been open 24 hours/day, every day for the past twelve years. Adoration chapels are quite common in Catholicism. Many of us sign up to be “Committed adorers”, people who commit to spending an hour each week praying for the needs of the world, giving thanks and adoring Jesus. There is someone in my parish’s adoration chapel adoring Jesus every hour of every day, even at 3:00 AM, and even as you read this. There is an adoration chapel somewhere, Europe I think, which has been in continual operation for over four hundred years.

This we do out of reverence for God who created us, for our love of Jesus who died for us and out of a sincere desire to respect his commandments, including the command to “Pray without ceasing.” Our worship is offered to God just as you say, “For the love of God and His grace” just like yours is. Nobody goes to daily Mass or to adoration in the middle of the night because “it is written in a book”, even if the book is the bible.

I sometimes get sad when I drive to adoration at night. I pass two non-denominational Christian Church, a Southern Baptist Church, a Seventh Day Adventist Church, a Lutheran Church, and a Methodist Church around midnight and the lights are off. They are all closed. No one is praying.

PAX

-Tim-

 

[bluelake]

Definitions smefinishions! Bah. Half my frineds go to giant happy-clappy self help groups which pass themselves off as Churches, complete with the Saturday evening “Mosh pit for Christ” teen worship experience. Buckhead Church. NorthPoint Church. Bah. Half of them took a step backwards when they left the Southern Baptists if you ask me.

I’ll take a stab at the question.

Very over simplified but the first two are the pillars of most Bible Christians…

Sola Scriptura - the belief that the bible and not the Church is the sole authority on matters of religious truth. From this flows the idea of personal interpretation of scripture and self determination of matters of morality. Catholics believe that the leadership of the visible Catholic Church, as successors to the Apostles, have been given singular authority by Jesus Christ to intepret Scripture (and Tradition) and to teach on matters of faith and morals based o that intepretation. With Catholic belief in the authority of the church comes priests, bishops, the Pope, Magesterium, etc, which Bible Christans don’t believe

**Sola Fide **- salvation by faith alone, that a one time act of faith in Jesus Christ is all that is required for entry into Heaven. Catholics believe (oversimplified, I know!!!) that our cooperation plays a role, that we must also be obedient, that even if we say we love Jesus, if we don’t act according to his commandments we don’t get a ticket

Those two are the biggies for Bible Christians as I know them here in the deep south - Jesus, the Bible and I’m saved by faith. That’s all that really matters to most Bible Christians. To most Bible Christians, everything else listed below are, for the most part symbolic, and as such, are not required for entry into Heaven.

Eucharist - communion is symbolic for Bible Christians. Catholics believe that when consecrated by a validly ordained priest, the bread and wine become the actual body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus and therefor, are a powerful means of holiness for those who recieve it in the proper state.

Sacraments - Catholics believe that Jesus gave us ways to receive grace (friendship with God - sanctifying grace) through ordinary substances used in ordinary ways by ordinary people. Catholics believe that the sacraments are how God chose to distribute his grace throughout the Body of Christ, the Church. Bible Christians generally have nothing to do with the idea of sacraments - ordinary people or things being used to recieve grace - AKA a change in status relative to friendship with God.

Confession - commanded and required by God but Bible Christians believe you can confess in the privacy of your own heart and that God only forgives people directly. Catholics believe that the normal and ordinary way which God created for man to recieve his forgiveness and healing is through his validly ordained priests.

Baptism - Protestants are all over the chart but most Bible Christians believe that it is symbolic, that it is only a public gesture to the community that one who is already saved makes to show his or her faith in Jesus, that it does not wash away sin. Catholics believe that it washes away sin and brings the newly baptized into friendship with God (a state of sanctifying grace) and makes one a member of the Body of Christ.

Mary - Bible Christians, for the most part, believe that Mary was the mother of Jesus and that’s about it. She had little to no role to play in salvation history and as such, she must not be regarded differently from any other human being. Catholics believe that Mary is a co-redemtrix and mediatrix of all grace - in short that she was designed and chosen by God to bring the Word of God into the world and therefor is the absolute perfection of humanity (I’m out of my league here… help me out somebody, will ya?), that all grace comes to man through Mary.

Purgatory - Catholics yes, Bible Christians no.

Then we get into stuff that really doesn’t have to do with salvation all that much, such as how the world will end.

You might want to read “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” by Karl Keating.

-Tim-

tim,
I decided not to address all of the points which you have listed. Not because I have a different view on some points, but because I feel Jesus shows no favoritism. He loves with an undying love that most of us cannot comprehend at times. He also has commanded us to love one another. Mt. 22:34-39
We all have the same Savior. Being human , we all have a different idea of the interpretations.

God bless you,
bluelake

PS. Co-Redeemer? Please explain this.

 

[Faith5]

Out of curiosity benedictus2, I would be interested to see if you had any other Bible verses that would be linked to this subject of being “in Christ.” How would you explain it from the Bible?

We receive the right standing with God by following Christ’s example with the help
of His grace. Justified at Baptism. God puts Christ’s goodness into our hearts. We are in Christ. We continue to live out our lives loving God and our neighbors. In Christ.
Now, Jesus is from all eternity God from God. Jesus is God.
One Person of the Trinity. Jesus was never a man or an angel. God created them.
Some Bible Christians don’t believe Jesus is from all eternity God. Catholics do. But are we Christians if believe Jesus is not from all eternity God?

 

[benidict]

:twocents: NOPE :bible1:

 

[Richard_Kastner]

We receive the right standing with God by following Christ’s example with the help of His grace. Justified at Baptism.

We are just are justified by faith in Jesus.
Rom.3
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

God puts Christ’s goodness into our hearts. We are in Christ. We continue to live out our lives loving God and our neighbors. In Christ.

This is called righteousness.

Now, Jesus is from all eternity God from God. Jesus is God.
One Person of the Trinity. Jesus was never a man or an angel. God created them.
Some Bible Christians don’t believe Jesus is from all eternity God. Catholics do. But are we Christians if believe Jesus is not from all eternity God?

The word angel literally means messenger.

Heb.1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

To say that “Jesus was never a man” is heresy as espoused by the Nicolaitanes (Gnostics)

Rev.2
15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

 

[pablope]

Pablope

Every Catholic Church has Mass, which is our form of worship, every day of the year, sometimes even multiple times each day in big parishes. At any hour of the day or night, somewhere in the world, right now in fact, Mass is taking place and worship is being offered to God.

My parish has a perpetual adoration chapel which has been open 24 hours/day, every day for the past twelve years. Adoration chapels are quite common in Catholicism. Many of us sign up to be “Committed adorers”, people who commit to spending an hour each week praying for the needs of the world, giving thanks and adoring Jesus. There is someone in my parish’s adoration chapel adoring Jesus every hour of every day, even at 3:00 AM, and even as you read this. There is an adoration chapel somewhere, Europe I think, which has been in continual operation for over four hundred years.

This we do out of reverence for God who created us, for our love of Jesus who died for us and out of a sincere desire to respect his commandments, including the command to “Pray without ceasing.” Our worship is offered to God just as you say, “For the love of God and His grace” just like yours is. Nobody goes to daily Mass or to adoration in the middle of the night because “it is written in a book”, even if the book is the bible.

I sometimes get sad when I drive to adoration at night. I pass two non-denominational Christian Church, a Southern Baptist Church, a Seventh Day Adventist Church, a Lutheran Church, and a Methodist Church around midnight and the lights are off. They are all closed. No one is praying.

PAX

-Tim-

Tim,

Thanks for your words. If you saw my profile, I am catholic, from the cradle. My post to Protestant 101 was more in questioning why does it have to be written in the Bible for anyone to worship. When I did state from the heart, that certainly includes reverence for our Creator.

There is an adoration chapel near my work, so during lunch time, I spend about 15 to 20 minutes there. And if I have time, I attend the 12:15 mass.

Blessings…

pablo

 

[pablope]

Hang on now! If you check; you will see quite a number of discussions here from the past where I tried to say I am not personally attacking Catholics; only certain beliefs. I have been told over and over that if I attack the belief; I attack the people. Why wouldn’t the same rule apply here?

To me; someone can be “in Christ” no matter what denomination they are in. And I believe that is the direction that you are headed with that - how that one cannot be truly “in Christ” unless they are Roman Catholic…

Out of curiosity benedictus2, I would be interested to see if you had any other Bible verses that would be linked to this subject of being “in Christ.” How would you explain it from the Bible?

Being in Christ…look at John 6:56:

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

 

[benidict]

Being in Christ…look at John 6:56:

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

NICE!

 

[Jehoshua]

We are just are justified by faith in Jesus.
Rom.3
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

This is called righteousness.

The word angel literally means messenger.

Heb.1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

To say that “Jesus was never a man” is heresy as espoused by the Nicolaitanes (Gnostics)

Rev.2
15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

In your quotes i see nothing about being justified by faith. What i do see is the fact and the truth that we are justified through the grace of God. In regards to sacramental baptism it is an agent of God’s grace which is perfectly in fitting with these quotes because it is not the water but the grace of God acting through the agency of the act that cleanses the sin, although it is important to realise that the act itself does not justify, God’s grace through the sacraments does.

As to the comment that “Jesus was never a man” that is incompatible with the teaching of the Church and indeed heresy as you pointed out. The Church teaches that Jesus is both fully man and fully God.

 

[Faith5]

To say that “Jesus was never a man” is heresy as espoused by the Nicolaitanes (Gnostics)

Oops. Thank you Richard Kastner for correcting the statement I made concerning
Jesus.
Yes, you are correct. Jesus is fully human and fully God. Just what I always believed
and what the Catholic Church teaches.
I probably shouldn’t post late at night without carefully checking the material.
I could have stated the following: Jesus is God and He created man and the angels.

thank you again, Faith 5

 

[benedictus2]

Out of curiosity benedictus2, I would be interested to see if you had any other Bible verses that would be linked to this subject of being “in Christ.” How would you explain it from the Bible?

P101 asked the same thing and I did answer that. I can’t give the exact Bible verses (as in Chapter and verse) but if I give them you will know what I mean

a) In Acts (I think Chapter 2) when Peter says “baptism now saves you” and how we are baptized into His death.
b) John 6 - the discourse on the Bread of Life (I think from verse 40 to 60) (I think this is the strongest Bible support of this)
c) The gospel on the Vine and Branches
d) St Paul when He speaks of the Body of Christ and Bride of Christ
e) Matthew (I think Chapter 24) What soever you do to the least of my brothers
f) In the OT all the verses that speak of being holy as the Father is Holy
g) John 20 : Whosoever sins you forgive
h) John 21 : Feed my sheep and relating that to the Good Shepherd gospel - I know my sheep and they know me.

If you can’t find the exact verses, I will give them to you next time as my lunch hour is almost finished.

We receive the right standing with God by following Christ’s example with the help of His grace. Justified at Baptism. God puts Christ’s goodness into our hearts. We are in Christ. We continue to live out our lives loving God and our neighbors. In Christ.
Now, Jesus is from all eternity God from God. Jesus is God.
One Person of the Trinity. Jesus was never a man or an angel. God created them.
Some Bible Christians don’t believe Jesus is from all eternity God. Catholics do. But are we Christians if believe Jesus is not from all eternity God?

I don’t know where you get the idea that I said we do not believe Jesus is from all eternity.

The other parts of your comments are correct but I just want to say to not think of justification as a one time event. At Baptism we are indeed justified but we do not remain justified if we sin. If we died after baptism then that is a different matter altogether. There is a need to live out our baptismal promises. And it is not as simple as God putting Christ’s goodness into our hearts. Otherwise we would not have any occassions of sin if that were so.

I will give a more detailed explanation maybe tomorrow. Have to get back to work.

Peace!

Cory

 

[Richard_Kastner]

In your quotes i see nothing about being justified by faith.

Really? Here is The quote from Romans again. Rom3
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and **the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. **

To me this is saying that we are justified by the grace of God (unmerited gift of salvation) through faith in the shed blood of Jesus as propitiation for our sins. What do you think it says?

What i do see is the fact and the truth that we are justified through the grace of God. In regards to sacramental baptism it is an agent of God’s grace which is perfectly in fitting with these quotes because it is not the water but the grace of God acting through the agency of the act that cleanses the sin, although it is important to realise that the act itself does not justify, God’s grace through the sacraments does.

The agent of God’s grace is Jesus Christ. Baptism is the outward sign of our faith in the sacrifice of Jesus. Neither Baptism nor any other sacrament has the power to impart grace.

 

[Big_Dummy]

NICE!

that response was really silly because “in Christ” and “christ in you” are clearly different in scripture than christ in your digestive track and latter flushed so to speak.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

Really? Here is The quote from Romans again. Rom3
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and **the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. **

To me this is saying that we are justified by the grace of God (unmerited gift of salvation) through faith in the shed blood of Jesus as propitiation for our sins. What do you think it says?

It says nothing about faith alone apart from good works though. (I think that is what Jehoshua was referring to. If not, correct me Jehoshua!) Grace is NOT an “unmerited gift of salvation.” An “unmerited gift of salvation” is… ahem… SALVATION!

The agent of God’s grace is Jesus Christ. Baptism is the outward sign of our faith in the sacrifice of Jesus. Neither Baptism nor any other sacrament has the power to impart grace.

Dang… All this time, I was thinking that God was omnipotent. I guess not. I guess Jesus’ command for us to be baptized has no effect on our souls at all. But wait, “Repent and be baptized… for the forgiveness of sins.” (Somewhere in Romans.) Surely, forgiveness of sins is some kind of grace. Surely, Scriptures are not lying. Proof-texts out of context are pre-texts. You have been demonstrating that recently.

That bolded sentence is wrong also. Nowhere does it even remotely imply that it is merely a sign.

 

[pablope]

that response was really silly because “in Christ” and “christ in you” are clearly different in scripture than christ in your digestive track and latter flushed so to speak.

Hi, BigD…actually, if you take time to think and meditate, and if you take note of the word “abide”…it means to remain or to dwell, and so, the logical thing to follow “In Christ” to the next step would be to have “Christ in you”, for Christ to remain in us, for once in Christ, we must remain in Christ by eating His flesh and blood as per V 56. This allows one to continue growing in grace by having Christ in us continuously.

 

[Faith5]

The agent of God’s grace is Jesus Christ. Baptism is the outward sign of our faith in the sacrifice of Jesus. Neither Baptism nor any other sacrament has the power to impart grace.

---

In Christ Richard
And how is the grace of Jesus Christ freely given to us in our lives?

At Baptism. Here is another difference between Bible Christians and B. Catholics
Catholics believe what the bible teaches.
What does Ezek 36 vs. 25-27 teach? I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you
from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new
heart and place a new spirit within you… OT is a shadow of the NT.
Now to the New Teatament–Acts 2 vs. 38
Peter said repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.