What are the main differences between Bible Christians and Catholics?

[Jehoshua]

24Being **justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: **25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

---

If this doesn;t scream out to you that we are justified by God’s grace and not purely by faith in Jesus Christ than I don’t know what does.

Faith indeed play’s a role because for God’s grace to have an effect we need to believe in Christ and accept the grace that is freely given by his sacrifice. Afterall if you don;t have faith you reject the grace that is given and therefore your justification and salvation is rejected by oneself. But it is definitely not the faith itself that justifies, but the grace that comes from God alone that is accepted by the individual, by having faith in Jesus and following ALL of his commandments (as it is written faith without works is dead) thereby having true faith by following obediently all that is commanded. But the statement that faith alone justifes is false, because it is not faith that justifies but God’s grace freely accepted by the individual. Faith in and of itself does not save a person, God does.

GreggAlvarez was correct in stating that i made my post as a refutation of sola fide, i should probably have posted an explanation further explaining my understanding.

 

[Jehoshua]

The agent of God’s grace is Jesus Christ. Baptism is the outward sign of our faith in the sacrifice of Jesus. Neither Baptism nor any other sacrament has the power to impart grace.

The physical material act does not impart grace you are correct. But we must be certain that the sacraments act as an agency through which grace is transmitted to the individual, of course the ultimate source of grace is God but indeed the sacraments do impart grace because God is present in a substantial way in the sacraments.

(Last i checked Christ was really truly substantially present in body, blood soul and divinity in the Holy Eucharist which is a sacrament.)

 

[benedictus2]

that response was really silly because “in Christ” and “christ in you” are clearly different in scripture than christ in your digestive track and latter flushed so to speak.

No it was not in the least bit silly . It made a very good point.

When we received Christ in the Eucharist, He does not get “flushed out” of our system as you would think.

His presence in us transforms us so that by being in us we become in Him.

When St Augustine was having a problem with the doctrine of the Eucharist, he heard the voice of Christ say to him.

Eat me,
I am the bread of the strong.
But you will not transform me and make me part of you.
Rather I will transform you and make you part of Me.

St Augustine also wrote that we become transformed into that which we receive through the Eucharist.

 

[benedictus2]

Really? Here is The quote from Romans again. Rom3
24Being **justified freely by his grace **through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and **the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. **

Jehoshua was right. This does not say we are justified by faith. What it does say is we are justified by His grace.

You jumped through the sentence just so you can make a connection.

 

[benidict]

Jehoshua was right. This does not say we are justified by faith. What it does say is we are justified by His grace.

You jumped through the sentence just so you can make a connection.

i knew there was something weird in the way he was using this verse. i just couldnt put my finger on it. good eye! and thank you

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Jehoshua was right. This does not say we are justified by faith. What it does say is we are justified by His grace.

You jumped through the sentence just so you can make a connection.

What do you think “His grace” is refering to Bene? The rest of the verse explains. “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” So “His grace” comes to us “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” and that is accomplished by FAITH in Jesus spilt blood as a propitiation for us.

 

[louisraymond]

[What do you mean working with an incoplet text.

‘‘Bible Christians’’ are not a single denomination, so private interpretation that usually falls in line with typical Protestant theology is the norm.
[/QUOTE]

 

[fbl9]

[What do you mean working with an incoplet text.

‘‘Bible Christians’’ are not a single denomination, so private interpretation that usually falls in line with typical Protestant theology is the norm.

[/quote]

qwelcome to the forums louisraymond
working with an incomplete text means that those who do not use the canonized bible of the Church usually do not use all the books.

 

[Jehoshua]

What do you think “His grace” is refering to Bene? The rest of the verse explains. “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” So “His grace” comes to us “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” and that is accomplished by FAITH in Jesus spilt blood as a propitiation for us.

But it is the grace that justifies. The faith in no way is and of itself justifies, it is neccesary only in that without genuine faith in all that is taught the grace that is given is rejected by the person. Likewise the “redemption that is in Jesus Christ” is a double reference not only to faith which allows neccesary acceptance, but also in my opinion to the sacrifical offering on the cross, which propitiated for our sin, whereas before our own sin prevented us from entering into the beatific vision and a complete relationship with God. In this case than it is also another reference to God’s grace which was given to us by his sacrifice for us on the cross (it was not some meaningless act with no actual effect) only serving to reinforce that indeed it is divine grace that justifies the faithful.

 

[benedictus2]

What do you think “His grace” is refering to Bene? The rest of the verse explains. “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” So “His grace” comes to us “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” and that is accomplished by FAITH in Jesus spilt blood as a propitiation for us.

But that does not mean that there is no salvation for those who do not have Faith in Jesus. That would be a huge amount of humanity that will go to hell then and all because God did not give them the grace of faith.

Faith is indeed a grace. But God’s grace is not limited to faith. It is so much more encompassing.

When Jesus said those who feed, clothe, give a drink to the least of His brethren, they do that to Him. That - is grace which may not be accompanied by faith but is none the less God’s grace.

I would also recommend extending your reading of the Bible beyond St Paul’s Epistles. The Gospels are very important.

 

[Faith5]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
What do you think “His grace” is refering to Bene? The rest of the verse explains. “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” So “His grace” comes to us “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” and that is accomplished by FAITH in Jesus spilt blood as a propitiation for us.

It’s by God’s grace. He died and rose that we might have eternal life with Him.
Of course we believe,. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is bapitzed will be saved;
whoever does not believe will be condemned.
So Non-Catholics will say what we need is faith because salvation is accomplished
by faith. However, faith requires us to respond in our hearts and Do the will of God.
The Bible is loaded with Scriptures admonishing us to “work it out.” Action. Why?
Because it’s not a slam dunk, end of story. We can lose it. Salvation is an ongoing process as we carry our-cross daily–with the help of God’s grace…

 

[benedictus2]

What do you think “His grace” is refering to Bene? The rest of the verse explains. “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” So “His grace” comes to us “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” and that is accomplished by FAITH in Jesus spilt blood as a propitiation for us.

I would also direct you to my post number 45 and 46 if you have time. This explains where faith alone falls short of explaining the overall plan of redemption.

 

[JustaServant]

The usage of the term “Bible Christian” is typically used by Christians who believe that the Bible’s teaching is their only authority. The term is used to separate themselves from the Catholic Church or any other organization that does not conform to their unique interpretation of the Bible’s contents.
But in reality, the term is not logical.
The first Christians did not have a Bible. The first Christians considered the teachings and INTERPRETATIONS OF THE APOSTLES (today’s Bishops) to be authoritative. Therefore, there was no such thing as a “Bible Christian” until later in history.
“Bible Christians” have benefited from the Church’s preservation of the Bible. That’s great, but they have fallen short because they have divorced the Bible from the Church. Catholics have kept the two together!

 

[agapewarrior]

The usage of the term “Bible Christian” is typically used by Christians who believe that the Bible’s teaching is their only authority. The term is used to separate themselves from the Catholic Church or any other organization that does not conform to their unique interpretation of the Bible’s contents.
But in reality, the term is not logical.
The first Christians did not have a Bible. The first Christians considered the teachings and INTERPRETATIONS OF THE APOSTLES (today’s Bishops) to be authoritative. Therefore, there was no such thing as a “Bible Christian” until later in history.
“Bible Christians” have benefited from the Church’s preservation of the Bible. That’s great, but they have fallen short because they have divorced the Bible from the Church. Catholics have kept the two together!

Jesus loves the church members and the “bible christians” equally. Either both have fallen short (Romans anyone?) or neither have. I don’t know about you, but I know God is good enough to make room for both in Heaven.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

But it is the grace that justifies. The faith in no way is and of itself justifies, it is neccesary only in that without genuine faith in all that is taught the grace that is given is rejected by the person. Likewise the “redemption that is in Jesus Christ” is a double reference not only to faith which allows neccesary acceptance, but also in my opinion to the sacrifical offering on the cross, which propitiated for our sin, whereas before our own sin prevented us from entering into the beatific vision and a complete relationship with God. In this case than it is also another reference to God’s grace which was given to us by his sacrifice for us on the cross (it was not some meaningless act with no actual effect) only serving to reinforce that indeed it is divine grace that justifies the faithful.

Rom.3
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

I think we are getting close to a consensis. A couple things. Grace is not faith. There are many definitions of grace, but the grace that we see here in Romans 3:24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: is the unmerited gift of Almighty God of His Son Jesus Christ as a propitiation for our sins. We are justified by this grace totally and completely, but we must remember that this gift of grace in the saving sacrifice of Christ is a two way street. A gift in order for it to have any effect for us in our lives must be accepted and in the case of Christ’s sacrifice that’s where faith comes in. Jesus died once for all mankind. For the sins of the those that went before and for those that came after. It’s a done deal, however, if that gift is not accepted in faith it will avail nothing.
Jn.14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And it’s sad to say that most will not find it.

Matt.7
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[KathleenGee]

Again, St Peter in his second letter affirmed he was among the chosen to witness Christ in His majesty, he accompanied Him at the Transfiguration, he warned us not to follow other beliefs or follow angels, and he warned us not to personally interpret Scripture.

Scripture is interpreted by the Church – a gathering of people with apostolic witness of Jesus Christ handed down as well a defined creed. All three must affirm one another.

It is personal interpretation, taking it beyond private reflections, to creating more divisions and misunderstandings and fracturing within the body of Christ where there is no Christian brotherhood…Christians always knocking down other Christians instead of putting their energy into living in the kingdom of Christ…very difficult and comes at a great price.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
What do you think “His grace” is refering to Bene? The rest of the verse explains. “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” So “His grace” comes to us “through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” and that is accomplished by FAITH in Jesus spilt blood as a propitiation for us.

It’s by God’s grace. He died and rose that we might have eternal life with Him.
Of course we believe,. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is bapitzed will be saved;
whoever does not believe will be condemned.
So Non-Catholics will say what we need is faith because salvation is accomplished
by faith. However, faith requires us to respond in our hearts and Do the will of God.
The Bible is loaded with Scriptures admonishing us to “work it out.” Action. Why?
Because it’s not a slam dunk, end of story. We can lose it. Salvation is an ongoing process as we carry our-cross daily–with the help of God’s grace…

I don’t know of one non-Catholic denomination that says “salvation is accomplished
by faith.” Salvation was accomplished by Jesus Christ on the cross period. We accept that salvation in faith and good works are a product of that acceptance.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The usage of the term “Bible Christian” is typically used by Christians who believe that the Bible’s teaching is their only authority. The term is used to separate themselves from the Catholic Church or any other organization that does not conform to their unique interpretation of the Bible’s contents.
But in reality, the term is not logical.
The first Christians did not have a Bible. The first Christians considered the teachings and INTERPRETATIONS OF THE APOSTLES (today’s Bishops) to be authoritative. Therefore, there was no such thing as a “Bible Christian” until later in history.
“Bible Christians” have benefited from the Church’s preservation of the Bible. That’s great, but they have fallen short because they have divorced the Bible from the Church. Catholics have kept the two together!

The bible is the story of God’s plan of salvation in Jesus Christ. This is what Jesus told us and His disciples to tell the world about.
Matt.28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Does your church teach that there is more that we need other than this?

 

[Cruxis117]

The bible is the story of God’s plan of salvation in Jesus Christ. This is what Jesus told us and His disciples to tell the world about.
Matt.28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Does your church teach that there is more that we need other than this?

No, it doesn’t. But it does give us the full Deposit of Faith, which includes everything that has been handed down from Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. For we all know, as it says in the Gospel of John, that if everything Jesus did was written down, “I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” We understand that Jesus Christ did not pass Gideon Bibles to the Apostles, but taught them and preached to them verbally.

We both agree that the Bible is the story of God’s salvation, which comes to climax in the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. And that the Apostles were commanded to teach all, to preach the Gospel. And that’s exactly what the Catholic Church does today.

 

[KathleenGee]

What about the Last Supper…just words? Not a real and substantial event of Eucharist and priesthood…what about the evening of the Resurrection…the apostles receiving the power to forgive sins in Christ…more a social dimension to faith than a private interpretive and group based perspective rather than a universal practice of faith through Church???

Remember, Pentecost did not provide Bible books.

Who is to discern the books of Scripture? Individual and partial men 1500 years later? Or those who witnessed Christ and their followers and successors???

You then have the Bible without Church. Christ said upon Peter He would build His church. Note: ‘build’…it would take time…not an instant church coming down from the sky…it took time to develop the Apostles Creed…then the Nicene Creed…

Rome wasn’t built over night…

Because faith is a working of grace between God and believers…if you have personal interpretation…it pertains only to individuals…and Christianity is mean to be lived out with other people as Church. Christ instituted the Church 2000 years ago. It is still around.

Personal interpretation and rejection of Christ’s Church is putting a person out there on their own…and our own way of looking at things always needs improvement and renewal.