What are the media’s moral obligations in making society aware of extreme poverty in the world?

[gracepoole]

It most definitely is not a myth. There was a time when I chose poverty. I can take you to places in the states where people choose poverty.

Do you live in a third-world country?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Poverty is an economic status. It’s not a crime unless someone is inflicting it on someone else. Some people are in poverty by choice. Are they victims or criminals in your book?

But society is inflicting it upon them via gross inequality and an unfair economic system.

How many of those living in extreme poverty are doing so by choice? Blame the victim, why don’t you!

Now, which German soldiers committed atrocities? Surely not all of them.

Any that knew about the crimes but turned a blind eye.

One more thing: journalists also have a moral obligation to their employers. They don’t have the authority to write about just anything, do they?

According to your reasoning, the Nazi Germans had an obligation to Adolf Hitler, so all are innocent and much of the atrocities were justifiable; just Adolf is guilty.

 

[St_Francis]

I do not have an economic definition of extreme poverty, but the extreme poverty I see or hear about has to do with people sleeping on the streets, experiencing starvation, made to drink unsanitary water, having to beg for money to buy food and children having to search garbage bins for something to eat.

Thanks, Robert, now ii know just what you are talking about

Again, I equate extreme poverty to the extermination of Jews in Nazi Germany, many of whom starved to death; the two sets of crimes have many parallels.

OK, I think I see what you are saying, but I would disagree with your analogy and conclusion. I do not think that in general poverty of the type you are talking about is like the killing of 12 million by the Nazis, since the Nazi action was, well, an action: they had a plan, they built the buildings, they kept records (!).

I would say that in certain nations, extreme poverty is caused by the actions of the government of the nation experiencing lots of poverty, places like Zimbabwe and North Korea. This I could definitely call a crime perpetrated by the ruling class of the nation involved.

Unfortunately, we are unable to do anything about these rogue nations because of the violations of sovreignty required to take action.

Other areas seem to lack a government, like Somalia. This is a tough case–we were attacked and suffered for that, but the US federal government had imposed absurd rules of engagement, resulting in our inability to accomplish anything.

In other nations, foreign companies come in and hire extremely desperate people for very little pay… precisely what Pope Leo XIII decried over 100 years ago in Rerum Novarum.

The media of the nation(s) these companies come from occasionally do report on these types of issues, when it is in line with their philosophy–very little is reported, for example, about the horrendous pollution caused in China by heavy metals mining for components of alternative energy machines like wind generators.

This too I could call a crime, and this is something the Western nations could do something about but are disinclined to.

Overall, I go back to my original thought–these problems can be solved only by Catholicism. Why? Because, as Archbishop Fulton Sheen said, Catholics follow a Person, a Person Who loves us. The other systems ask or demand that we follow a cold, soulless idea. In Christ, we lose our lives to live more fully; under an a-theistic system, we lose our lives and our souls for a fantasy. (OK, he was less flowery about it…)

Just as the Nazi Germans had a moral obligation to not turn a blind eye to the extermination of the Jews, so too, I believe that the media needs to stop turning a blind eye to extreme poverty, as if it did not exist.

I do not think it was the task only of the media to publicize these problems, altho they certainly fell down on the issue of the Nazi concentration camps. But I still remain convinced it is much more the task of the Church and each individual (who are each obliged to obey the Church) to do what they can to help and to publicize the problems.

 

[Robert_Sock]

It most definitely is not a myth. There was a time when I chose poverty. I can take you to places in the states where people choose poverty.

And yet you begged for work! Why if you were comfortable and wanted to live in poverty? Something doesn’t make sense here!

Just to give you some context about me, I’ve done all those things, except beg for money. I begged for work, but not money.

 

[gracepoole]

If you see me and others who disagree with you as more akin to demons than Catholics, you can dismiss what we say with no further thought, without grappling with the issues we bring up. Is that a Christian way to behave?

Whoa, whoa – what?? I didn’t state or imply that anyone who disagrees with me is “more akin to demons than Catholics.” I…can’t imagine the context in which I would make such a statement.

I think you are making the false assumption that no one will give to the poor if the government doesn’t force them. We have limited faith in the government for this because “at times it happens that those who receive aid become subordinate to the aid-givers, and the poor serve to perpetuate expensive bureaucracies which consume an excessively high percentage of funds intended for development.” - Caritas in veritate

I’m not sure why you think I’ve made this assumption but regardless, I haven’t. What I will say is this: there is a psychology to giving. I can’t get the NY Times web site to work for some reason, but here’s another copy of an article I highly recommend (the film Reporter is fantastic, as well).

Since I have never read anyone on CAF saying flat-out that one should not give money to those in need in the third world, I assumed she was mischaracterizing some arguments I have heard people make.

If, however, she has seen people say that, I would like some evidence.

It’s odd that you assume “she” is mischaracterizing others’ arguments rather than assuming there’s veracity in the descriptions she’s offered. I don’t have any interest in pointing to folks and using them as poster children for the “don’t give” perspective – but if the first place we go is a list of reasons why doing something is problematic, we waste time trying to find a perfect solution while people are dying.

If I remember next time I see someone post that, I will try and PM you. I have a few of these type of questions rattling aroung in my head and have sometimes been able to come back to them. Yes, I have seen this posted, though I grant that sometimes in the desire to exaggerate a point sometimes people overstate that which they really believe.

Indeed – sometimes it’s difficult to read hyperbole accurately.

Despite this rather extreme example of Godwin’s Law

 

[Jozefo]

I’m so sorry for your extreme hardships!

It was a learning experience. I chose it. I was being anti-social. But I’m thankful for having lived it. I know what poverty is. It’s why I know that some people choose that kind of life. Some people are victims of circumstance, but others (like I was) just took time off from society.

I met my wife during that time. We wanted a family, so it was time to rejoin everyone society. I was fortunate that a few people helped me get back on my feet, and I know not everyone gets that kind of help.

I’ve examined the problem from both inside and out from it. Believe it or not, there are people who simply don’t want any part of what passes for society. If I didn’t have a family, I would make my exit again, and live out my days, and I would be happy.

There are a lot of folks just like me. More than you know.

 

[pnewton]

Imagine what happened to Germans who tried to help the Jews from extermination? This was their moral obligation, and many paid the price. So too, the media needs to willing to make sacrifices in reporting extreme poverty.

I can show you where the Church has condemned the Holocaust. I can show you where murder is a gravely moral sin. You have yet to show where the Church has condemned journalist. Under the circumstances, all this Hitler/Nazi stuff is empty rhetoric with absolutely zero substance.

Something from the Church would be evidence. Comparisons to Nazis, global warming, supernovas or Armaggedon are just devoid of substance.

 

[Jozefo]

Do you live in a third-world country?

I live in a bag of bones and skin.

 

[pnewton]

In terms of third-world poverty, this is a myth.

It most definitely is not a myth.

You guys are talking about two different things. Third world poverty is more of the topic on the table. You know, starvation, Somalia, … Third world. In the U.S., it is true that most of the poverty is a result of the person’s choices. Here, soup kitchens still are a charitable work, but they will not ease the poverty of someone strung out on crack.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Overall, I go back to my original thought–these problems can be solved only by Catholicism. Why? Because, as Archbishop Fulton Sheen said, Catholics follow a Person, a Person Who loves us. The other systems ask or demand that we follow a cold, soulless idea. In Christ, we lose our lives to live more fully; under an a-theistic system, we lose our lives and our souls for a fantasy. (OK, he was less flowery about it…)

But I still remain convinced it is much more the task of the Church and each individual (who are each obliged to obey the Church) to do what they can to help and to publicize the problems.

But the Church does not control the media, which is needed to inform people of the atrocities that are being committed. Furthermore, the average Catholic does not seem to be interested in world poverty. Finally, most of the word’s population is non-Catholic; how do you propose the Church deal with that big problem?

 

[gracepoole]

I live in a bag of bones and skin.

Unless that bag of bones and skin is in a third-world country, your comment about choosing to live in poverty doesn’t apply to my point.

You guys are talking about two different things. Third world poverty is more of the topic on the table. You know, starvation, Somalia, … Third world. In the U.S., it is true that most of the poverty is a result of the person’s choices. Here, soup kitchens still are a charitable work, but they will not ease the poverty of someone strung out on crack.

Yes – this!

 

[Jozefo]

And yet you begged for work! Why if you were comfortable and wanted to live in poverty? Something doesn’t make sense here!

Of course it doesn’t make sense.

I’m telling you what I did was by choice, which is something you would never do. But it’s a matter of priorities. Mine at that time were different than yours. We all make choices. I begged for work because I wanted to eat, and have cigarettes, and some beer once in a while. Thievery is wrong, and begging for money would have been dishonest, since I can work.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m aware that some people are victims of circumstances, and they get thrown into impossible situations. But this I know: government is the problem, not the solution. And that is no Republican talking point. It’s experience.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Robert, ‘the media’ does make society aware of extreme poverty. Some mediums (news channels, newspapers, Catholic sites like this one) do so very often, and very well. Some mediums do so moderately well. Some do a fair job, some a poor job. But just about every medium from radio to TV to newspapers, magazines, the Internet etc. have reported these things, often with outrage and with specific ‘things to do’ to help the poor.

I think what you are trying to argue is that the media should be not just reporting ‘more’ (and I agree here that just as with other moral wrongs, we aren’t hearing enough ‘truth’ and certainly many people aren’t getting accurate information (how much do you think that the media in places like North Korea or some of the African nations report the wrongs being done to their people? Not much), but it should also somehow ‘make’ people do something.

Yes, society ‘should’ be doing more, meaning that:You and I, and all other ‘individuals’, even if we do something, could always do more. We could buy less, we could buy ‘fair trade’, etc.

BUT even here, Robert, we won’t solve much IF the rulers of countries with ‘poor people’ take advantage of the money we are trying to ‘give’ the poor by taking it themselves. We would increase our giving 10%, and all it would do is make those who are brutalizing the poor 10% richer and capable of even more evil.

So what we really need to do, Robert, is to work not on preaching to the choir, but on changing the hearts of those who hurt the poor. And those people ‘ain’t us’. Or the media. Or "society’ in general.

A few, or in some cases, ‘many’ individuals work, either on their own, or banding with others, to ‘take’ and in so doing, put others into extreme poverty.

We’ve seen that having the US or the UN simply ‘go in’ and try to bring democracy (including free trade, aid for the poor, etc.) doesn’t work, because the fat cats in power don’t want to lose that power. Often if they ARE overthrown, the ones overthrowing go on to do the same thing, or worse.

I wish I had a solution, Robert, but as another said, the ONLY thing that will in the end solve this problem is not having ‘the media’ report on poverty 24/7, or on having every person in the U.S. shelling out ‘aid’ and then sitting back going, "we’re helping stamp out poverty’ while it is well known that the minute the food and money come into the country, they go into the pockets of the ‘rulers’. . .the ONLY cure for this is in having the hearts of those who are doing the evil turn to Christ. We should be working far more to spread the gospel and not just talk about ‘doing good’ while not making sure that the good is actually done for whom it is intended. . .IMO.

 

[Jozefo]

You guys are talking about two different things. Third world poverty is more of the topic on the table. You know, starvation, Somalia, … Third world. In the U.S., it is true that most of the poverty is a result of the person’s choices. Here, soup kitchens still are a charitable work, but they will not ease the poverty of someone strung out on crack.

There’s an entire world living right beneath the surface in the states, and it’s completely third world. It’s illegal to be poor and keep your dignity in the US. You either have to sacrifice your humanity, or learn how to avoid the system.

I wasn’t on drugs. I simply could not abide being treated like cattle. I’m not built for bondage. Thank God my wife has more sense than I do.

 

[Jozefo]

Unless that bag of bones and skin is in a third-world country, your comment about choosing to live in poverty doesn’t apply to my point.

It’s possible I misunderstood your point, but I doubt it.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I can show you where the Church has condemned the Holocaust. I can show you where murder is a gravely moral sin. You have yet to show where the Church has condemned journalist. Under the circumstances, all this Hitler/Nazi stuff is empty rhetoric with absolutely zero substance.

Something from the Church would be evidence. Comparisons to Nazis, global warming, supernovas or Armaggedon are just devoid of substance.

There are much positive stuff the Church has said about poverty, and I commend them for that, and I think Pope Frances is doing a great job making Catholics more aware of poverty, but I think the Church is still lacking when it comes to reporting extreme poverty. This is certainly true with EWTN! I believe the Church has some catching up to do in officially stating the antecedents to poverty, especially the role of media. Pope Francis has only been a pope for a short time, and already he has made great headway in bringing severe poverty to the headlines. I’m optimistic that in the near future he will write some encyclicals on world poverty and hopefully he will touch upon the role of the media, including EWTN.

 

[pnewton]

Robert, ‘the media’ does make society aware of extreme poverty. Some mediums (news channels, newspapers, Catholic sites like this one) do so very often, and very well. Some mediums do so moderately well. Some do a fair job, some a poor job.

You know, I guess I got so tied up in side issues, it never occurred to me to question the main premise. Apparently the media does make us aware of poverty. Robert Sock knew of it. I did. I think most know that many people exist in total poverty, that people starve, that children are malnourished.

 

[gracepoole]

There’s an entire world living right beneath the surface in the states, and it’s completely third world. It’s illegal to be poor and keep your dignity in the US. You either have to sacrifice your humanity, or learn how to avoid the system.

I wasn’t on drugs. I simply could not abide being treated like cattle. I’m not built for bondage. Thank God my wife has more sense than I do.

Rarely do I say anything with this level of conviction but… No, no, no. American poverty is disturbed and disturbing. It is **not **third-world poverty. The average Congolese citizen earns less that $250 a year (while working as much and as hard as possible, that is, not while “choosing” poverty) and has an average life expectancy of 48. North Koreans, deprived of food and food sources for so long, have taken to eating dirt and bark to fill their bellies and silence hunger pangs. Here, public education is available for both sexes – definitely not in many other poverty-riddled portions of the world. No one is attempting to minimize the horrors of American poverty. But please do not make the faulty generalization that all poverty is the same.

 

[pnewton]

This is certainly true with EWTN! I believe the Church has some catching up to do in officially stating the antecedents to poverty, especially the role of media. Pope Francis has only been a pope for a short time, and already he has made great headway in bringing severe poverty to the headlines. I’m optimistic that in the near future he will write some encyclicals on world poverty and hopefully he will touch upon the role of the media, including EWTN.

So, would have them not air the Holy Father? Mass? Catechism? Prayers and inspiration? Jesus said we will always have the poor. We need more than just more photos of malnurishment. We need hope.

So, if you criticize them, what would you cut out of the programing?

 

[gracepoole]

You know, I guess I got so tied up in side issues, it never occurred to me to question the main premise. Apparently the media does make us aware of poverty. Robert Sock knew of it. I did. I think most know that many people exist in total poverty, that people starve, that children are malnourished.

I think what we don’t hear enough of is how our daily choices impact those living in poverty elsewhere. For example, most people are unaware that their cell phones are made from minerals that fuel a culture of rape, murder, child labor, and enslavement. Perhaps if more were aware of this, they’d make different choices when making purchases.