What are the reasons I should (or shouldn't) become Catholic?

[AgnosTheist]

If they are validly baptized, they are our separated brothers in Christ. They are akin to the prodigal son, in my view, and we celebrate their return, even if only one by one.

The PEACE of Christ.

how is one “validly baptized”?

 

[po18guy]

how is one “validly baptized”?

The almost universally recognized Trinitarian formula (Matthew 28:19 “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”). One caveat here: the Mormon, JW and some other sects’ definitions of the trinity are different, and thus do not constitute a valid baptism. Most of these churches sprang up in the 1800s and have no ties to the early church. The vast majority of Christian baptisms are indeed valid and accepted by the Catholic church.

 

[AgnosTheist]

The vast majority of Christian baptisms are indeed valid and accepted by the Catholic church.

thats good to know.

the next question is, are those validly baptized non-catholics who are zealous in their charity and spiritual life…can these be considered as true christians?

 

[po18guy]

thats good to know.

the next question is, are those validly baptized non-catholics who are zealous in their charity and spiritual life…can these be considered as true christians?

Yes! It i just that they lack so much of what the church had for 1,500+ years before Luther’s disobedience. Most of them have seven less books of scripture; no valid priesthood, five less Sacraments-only Baptism and Marriage, rather than those plus: Confirmation, Reconcilliation, Holy Orders, Anointing of the sick, and the most important of all: the Eucharist. Services at Protestant-based churches seem absolutely empty by comparison. Nearly everyone in those churches is a sincere, Christ loving person, but they are missing so much of the richness and depth of the faith.

It is awfully difficult to “compete” with 1,977 years of unbroken faith tradition, as contained in the original bible, and the administration of all seven Scraments, Eucharistic adoration, muliplicity of devotions, etc. Not to mention that a Catholic can attend mass in virtually every nation on earth and understand exactly where they are as the mass progresses. This is part of the reason why the term catholic (“universal”) came to apply to the church.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Yes! It i just that they lack so much of what the church had for 1,500+ years before Luther’s disobedience.

If thats official then that open-minded stance is something that deserves a lot of respect.

they are missing so much of the richness and depth of the faith.

what exactly are they missing without those 5 sacraments? Like is it harder for them to get to heaven? They will spend a longer time in Purgatory? They will get less rewards in heaven? They will have a harder life on earth?

Now going back to the original issue, the oneness of the church. I heard some people say that there is an earthly church and a spiritual church. the earthly churches are the CC and those thousands of sects out there. the spiritual church, is the invisible church consisting of all true christians from every earthly sects. what do you think about that?

 

[po18guy]

If thats official then that open-minded stance is something that deserves a lot of respect.

We welcome every Christian into unity, as Christ called all to unity. From scripture, you can see that many left Him.

what exactly are they missing without those 5 sacraments? Like is it harder for them to get to heaven? They will spend a longer time in Purgatory? They will get less rewards in heaven? They will have a harder life on earth?

1. A lot of spiritual rewards, and forgiveness of sin. The Eucharist IS Christ. He is in the church. We go to adore him in the Blessed Sacrament (Eucharist). I have seen miracles happen from fervent prayer in His presence.
2. That’s a good question. We must take it on faith that Christ instituted the sacraments for a reason. In total obedience to Him, we keep them in the church. They provide graces to those who observe them.
3. Since no unrighteousness can enter heaven, and virtually no one dies in a state of perfection, we know that God’s grace and mercy provide for a purification for those not condemned to hell. But, you only go, you don’t come back, so we have to trust God on this one.
4. Once in heaven, the concept of rewards fades. Heaven IS the reward. Once we are in His perpetual light, nothing of this earth will matter, as we will be in adoration of Him, who created us.
5. Their life on earth may not be harder, but the graces they will miss through lack of particiapation in the Sacraments means that their life may just be less fullfilling. And, they carry the weight of sin on their shoulders. Just to experience the moment of grace during recomcilliation when your sin is destroyed is difficult to describe, but one often has the feeling of floating when leaving the confessional.

Now going back to the original issue, the oneness of the church. I heard some people say that there is an earthly church and a spiritual church. the earthly churches are the CC and those thousands of sects out there. the spiritual church, is the invisible church consisting of all true christians from every earthly sects. what do you think about that?

There is the church on earth (the mystical body of Christ), the churh in heaven (the Saints) and the church in purgatory (the souls undergoing purification). All are part of the church-notice there are three parts? Three is a major number in the church (Father,Son,Holy Spirit; three days in the tomb), as is seven (Sacraments), which is th Hebrew sign of completion.

I feel incompetent to answer, but I try my hardest. There are others who will easily surpass my answers. I listen to them.

Christ’s peace.

 

[qui_est_ce]

what exactly are they missing without those 5 sacraments? Like is it harder for them to get to heaven? They will spend a longer time in Purgatory? They will get less rewards in heaven? They will have a harder life on earth?

That’s up to God. A person is only responsible for what they know. I know God gave us the Sacraments, and expects us to make use of them.

Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification (Catechismus concil. Trident., n.4, ex S. Aug. “De Catechizandis rudibus”).

They are missing out on the fullness of the Grace God provides us. It’s kind of a a thimble full of water as opposed to a gallon pitcher of water. Each is full, yet the gallon pitcher holds more water.

Now going back to the original issue, the oneness of the church. I heard some people say that there is an earthly church and a spiritual church. the earthly churches are the CC and those thousands of sects out there. the spiritual church, is the invisible church consisting of all true christians from every earthly sects. what do you think about that?

There is only one Church, and that is the one instituted by Christ when He gave Peter the keys and said, “You are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

Many Protestant sects claim Jesus didn’t mean a literal church on earth, but a spiritual one. CC says it is a physical church. All others are “denominations” or “sects.” They contain a kerygma of truth, but not the full truth.

When we say salvation comes from the CC, we are not saying only Catholics are saved, we are saying because the Jesus gave the Church the Truth, the world is saved (even those who don’t know Jesus through no fault of their own).

You’re finally getting the the meat of the orginal question.

 

[AgnosTheist]

1. A lot of spiritual rewards, and forgiveness of sin.
2. Once in heaven, the concept of rewards fades.

In the end it wouldnt really matter, as “Heaven IS the reward”

that their life may just be less fullfilling

realistically there are so many catholics who found life more fulfilling by joining another sect of christianity (or converting to a completely different religion)

There is the church on earth (the mystical body of Christ), the churh in heaven (the Saints) and the church in purgatory (the souls undergoing purification). All are part of the church-notice there are three parts?

are non-catholic christians a part of anyone of those?

I feel incompetent to answer, but I try my hardest.

i appreciate it. hey one more thing, the non-catholic christians who join the CC, what do they go through? like are they baptized again?

 

[qui_est_ce]

1. Their life on earth may not be harder, but the graces they will miss through lack of particiapation in the Sacraments means that their life may just be less fullfilling. And, they carry the weight of sin on their shoulders.

Sola Fides means faith alone is necessary. They are already forgiven even before they sin. But they forget about Penance. They think they don’t have to pay the price, because Jesus paid the price, but they are wrong

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is ***lacking *** in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church.
Ask a Protestant to explain the above. They can’t

Just to experience the moment of grace during recomcilliation when your sin is destroyed is difficult to describe, but one often has the feeling of floating when leaving the confessional.

Amen!

I feel incompetent to answer, but I try my hardest. There are others who will easily surpass my answers. I listen to them.

Christ’s peace.

You’re doing pretty good and keeping it on a layman’s level

 

[qui_est_ce]

i appreciate it. hey one more thing, the non-catholic christians who join the CC, what do they go through? like are they baptized again?

Not if they are already baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There is on ONE Baptism. CC accepts any in that format. Many sects do not, I don’t know which do and which don’t.

If we’re not sure, we do a conditional Baptism, because you can’t be baptized twice.

 

[jmcrae]

i appreciate it. hey one more thing, the non-catholic christians who join the CC, what do they go through? like are they baptized again?

No, they wouldn’t normally be baptized again - unless there were some question about the validity of their baptism.

There is a stream for baptized non-Catholics in the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA), which includes various Rites suited to their status as baptized persons not yet in full communion with the Church, a course of instruction in the teachings of the Church, and finally (after making a general Confession of sins at some point during the week prior) Initiation into the Church through a public profession of faith, and the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion, which is followed by a period of “breaking open the mysteries” called Mystagogia.

Depending on where you live, this would be scheduled either on the Easter Vigil (the night before Easter) or else Pentecost Sunday - the Rites and the courses of instruction would be timed in such a way that you would have plenty of time to complete them beforehand.

If you have a willing priest, you can also ask about private instruction - this doesn’t take as long, and finishes whenever you’re ready, but it’s a lot more intense.

 

[po18guy]

In the end it wouldnt really matter, as “Heaven IS the reward”

The spiritual rewards in this life bring the graces of spreading the gospel, as well as seeing miracles through prayer among many others. A spiritual life on earth is a taste. Heaven is both the icing and the cake.

realistically there are so many catholics who found life more fulfilling by joining another sect of christianity (or converting to a completely different religion)

The Catholics who drifted away could never have understood the richness and depth of the faith. If they did, their leaving constitutes walking away from Christ himself and toward a photograph of him, so to speak. Every Christian church has truth in it. But, no other church has the fullness of faith and truth. That is why we are here. Many of us had the chance to examine numerous churches and were clearly convinced of the truth of Catholicism.

Het Agnos, you don’t mind being controversial, so whay not become Catholic? Surprise and shock your friends.

are non-catholic christians a part of anyone of those?

We believe that non-Catholics are separated brothers in Christ, and after baptism, are part of the same body. However, since we must “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” accoring to Saint Paul, we go with the One Church that Christ founded, and not with those derivatives of it. Thus it is likely that many other Christians are in heaven-but at what price of purification in purgatory? Their sins went with them into death, so they cannot enter heaven until they are purified.

i appreciate it. hey one more thing, the non-catholic christians who join the CC, what do they go through? like are they baptized again?

It’s called RCIA the Rite of Christuian Initiation of Adults. It is a series of very instructive classes that teach the faith. You need not follow through if you do not want to. I highly suggest looking into inquiry classes, or RCIA. It will answer many more of your questions.

Christ’s peace.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Catholics who drifted away could never have understood the richness and depth of the faith. If they did, their leaving constitutes walking away from Christ himself and toward a photograph of him, so to speak. Every Christian church has truth in it. But, no other church has the fullness of faith and truth. That is why we are here. Many of us had the chance to examine numerous churches and were clearly convinced of the truth of Catholicism.

Amen!

Het Agnos, you don’t mind being controversial, so whay not become Catholic? Surprise and shock your friends.

Holy Hour this Saturday 3:00-4:00 PM Central Daylight Savings Time. Remember?? It won’t be easy for me either. The days are cool, I can work in my garden. But to take off in the middle of the afternoon…why don’t you challenge me to go to Holy Hour? It’s been, hmm, I think ten years for me.

It’s called RCIA the Rite of Christuian Initiation of Adults. It is a series of very instructive classes that teach the faith. You need not follow through if you do not want to. I highly suggest looking into inquiry classes, or RCIA. It will answer many more of your questions.

Christ’s peace.

Although I am passionately involved in RCIA in my parish, not all may satisfy your intellectual curiosity, in which case you may want to pursue a one on one journey with a priest.

See you in the morning!

 

[AgnosTheist]

The Catholics who drifted away could never have understood the richness and depth of the faith.

Its just that other sects and faiths offer a very similar spiritual satisfaction. If only those who left experienced it in the CC sooner.

Het Agnos, you don’t mind being controversial, so whay not become Catholic? Surprise and shock your friends.

I almost took Christines’s challenge, to the point that I told my wife of trying out a CC religious service again. Until Christine told me that the holy hour happens at 3 A.M.! err, no thanks.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I almost took Christines’s challenge, to the point that I told my wife of trying out a CC religious service again. Until Christine told me that the holy hour happens at 3 A.M.! err, no thanks.

How did your wife react?

3 AM was the one I did 20 years ago, it was a special 24 hour vigil. Our Parish holds it at 3-4 PM Saturdays. Below is a link.
Find one that has one and a reasonable hour for you. I think if we did it at the same time, it would be more meaningful. Communion of Saints thing. I don’t recommend doing it at home for the first time.

therealpresence.org/chap_fr.htm

Below are some explanations
therealpresence.org/eucharst/pea/holyhour.html

 

[po18guy]

Its just that other sects and faiths offer a very similar spiritual satisfaction. If only those who left experienced it in the CC sooner.

Since no other church, except Eastern Orthodox, has this richness and depth, what CC fallouts experience elsewhere is emotion. Go to a mega church and see. It’s well-meaning, but it remains style over substance.

I almost took Christines’s challenge, to the point that I told my wife of trying out a CC religious service again. Until Christine told me that the holy hour happens at 3 A.M.! err, no thanks.

Please reconsider! Many churches have perpetual Adoration, some over a 24 hour period, others just for a few hours on a given day. You can find one easily. I feel deprived if I can’t go in any given week. Sometimes I do 2-3 hours, depending on who needs the greatest amount of intercession. Try to find a Friday at 3:00 PM-the hour of mercy.

Take scripture with you. In Christ’s presence, ask the Holy Spirit to guide your fingers to a page. Then, just begin reading. It will cost you an hour, though…

Christ’s peace.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Since no other church, except Eastern Orthodox, has this richness and depth, what CC fallouts experience elsewhere is emotion. Go to a mega church and see. It’s well-meaning, but it remains style over substance.

Some even have theatre seats with cup holders.

Sometimes I do 2-3 hours, depending on who needs the greatest amount of intercession. Try to find a Friday at 3:00 PM-the hour of mercy.

Week days are hard if you’re working. Ours is on Saturdays. I’m impressed you go so often.

 

[po18guy]

How did your wife react?

3 AM was the one I did 20 years ago, it was a special 24 hour vigil. Our Parish holds it at 3-4 PM Saturdays. Below is a link.
Find one that has one and a reasonable hour for you. I think if we did it at the same time, it would be more meaningful. Communion of Saints thing. I don’t recommend doing it at home for the first time.

therealpresence.org/chap_fr.htm

Below are some explanations
therealpresence.org/eucharst/pea/holyhour.html

I am blessed in that my home Parish has 24 hour Adoration from 9 AM Thursday to 9 AM Friday. The Parish in the next town where I work has 12 hour Adoration from 9 AM to 9 PM Fridays. I can get a spiritual recharge on my way to work-and I need it!

Hey Agnos, you were going to have a look at the bible anyway, right? Read it in Jesus’ presence and you’ll both be pleased.

Christ’s peace

 

[qui_est_ce]

I am blessed in that my home Parish has 24 hour Adoration from 9 AM Thursday to 9 AM Friday. The Parish in the next town where I work has 12 hour Adoration from 9 AM to 9 PM Fridays. I can get a spiritual recharge on my way to work-and I need it!

Christ’s peace

Well I haven’t done a Holy Hour in 20 years, but I am willing to go if Agnos does.

I do go to daily mass at 6:30 AM.

 

[AgnosTheist]

How did your wife react?

she was fine with it. she did miss going to church.

Below are some explanations
therealpresence.org/eucharst/pea/holyhour.html

sounds very much like a believer thingie. i mean each 15 minutes segment requires believing that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist. How will a non-believer fit in there? Is it enough for a guy like me to just to sit in there and listen and remain silent for one full hour?