What are the reasons I should (or shouldn't) become Catholic?

[AgnosTheist]

Well simple theist do you have your answer yet?
Or do you just want to see humans bicker back and forth about why or why not you should be Catholic?

There is nothing to answer just yet. First we need to confirm the report.

 

[AgnosTheist]

PBS is not a reliable source of information

depends on the information. if you think PBS lied when it made the claim of quoting the vatican’s words, feel free to sue them for every penny they have.

please, dont just disagree by complaining. prove their quotes wrong.

 

[jpasta]

I don’t quite understand the protests against the PBS link.
There was an actual day of pardon held on that day.

 

[Contarini]

PBS is a reputable organization, it cannot afford to lie on this

Note that the passage you quoted was not in direct quotes. The phrase “in the Vatican’s words” was misleading, but careless rather than a lie.

Edwin

 

[jpasta]

Ok here perhaps is a more reliable source:

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_20000312_presentation-day-pardon_en.html

 

[AgnosTheist]

Note that the passage you quoted was not in direct quotes. The phrase “in the Vatican’s words” was misleading, but careless rather than a lie.

Edwin

Contarini! Its great to have a scholar here. You are partly the reason I joined. What are your opinions on the matter, with regards to the apology and about the not so good things that some parts of the church did in the past?

 

[mercygate]

PBS is reliabe when it claims to quote someone’s exact words. Or else they would be in a lot of trouble.

You are so in denial. Please, just prove their quote wrong if you can. Good luck!

No. You brought it up. All I am asking for is the actual quotation from the Pope’s address. I deny nothing. Remember: I’m a convert to the Church. I didn’t walk in here with blinders on.

 

[AgnosTheist]

No. You brought it up. All I am asking for is the actual quotation from the Pope’s address. I deny nothing. Remember: I’m a convert to the Church. I didn’t walk in here with blinders on.

Thanks to jpasta for providing the link to the actual apology.

While the words wasnt identical to that mentioned in PBS, the message appears to be faithful to the original.

 

[mercygate]

I don’t quite understand the protests against the PBS link.
There was an actual day of pardon held on that day.

Yes, there was. And it is important that it be publicized. The question here is whether the Pope apologized for the Church or for the actions of Christians and Catholics. The difference may be non-existent to some, but there is a theology involved here that has cosmic ramifications. I’m just expecting Agnos Theist to take his statement back to a primary source and not a secondary quote from PBS.

I will gladly accept a primary source. Nobody should ever deny actual wrongs committed in the name of Christ or his Church. We’re in the truth business.

But facts (X was executed for publishing heresy) are often converted into scenarios (Good, righteous, honorable, innocent X was executed for translating the Bible so that it could not be controlled by the power-elite of the greedy, evil, bloodmongering Whore of Babylon.).

 

[Ginger2]

I don’t know what the Pope said or care.

My point is PBS is not reliable. I have witnessed them slanting what is supposed to be news. They don’t tell direct lies, but they directly mislead their listeners.

Suggestions of suing are riduculous. What would be my damages? Did I quit the Catholic Church over it? Am I forbidden to rejoin now that I realize I was misled?

Oh, oh, wait! I know the answer…Maybe I think my salvation is dependent on what I hear on the “news”? Now all I have to do is PROVE IT in court!

 

[AgnosTheist]

lets just get back to the issue of whether or not the Catholic Church did some wrongs/sins in the past. Did it or did it not?

Everyone just answer yes or no.

 

[jpasta]

lets just get back to the issue of whether or not the Catholic Church did some wrongs/sins in the past. Did it or did it not?

Everyone just answer yes or no.

Maybe.
Ok perhaps that can be another thread this one has been hi-jacked enough…but that’s my opinion.

 

[Nella]

When is the TRUTH really a LIE?

I’m not trying to take sides for or against the Pope’s apolgy, but PBS is not a reliable source of information (nor are most news media these days)

It has become popular among media today to tell the truth but leave out any facts that contradict the conclusion they are hoping the listener will come to.

I can give you factual information and still mislead you by not giving you all the facts. Technically, I am not lying, yet if you take me at my word you will believe a lie.

That is what PBS often does.

more mental gymnatics that Catholics are so gifted at. This is how the church has been successful at passing the child sex abuse scandal by its faithful.

 

[Ginger2]

Quote Nella: “…more mental gymnatics that Catholics are so gifted at.”

I am not Catholic. And I don’t presune to defend not judge the Catholic Church. I don’t see how stating my opinion which can be backed up is “gymnastics”. When I hear a news report on TV, I draw a conclusion. When I eventually the rest of the facts, I usually change my opinion.

This thread is supposed to be answering the question: What are the reasons I should (or shouldn’t) become Catholic? - which naturally leads to expanded debates for and against the answers given. I went a little farther off track then I should have because I resent being misled by the very sources of information I once trusted.

 

[mercygate]

more mental gymnatics that Catholics are so gifted at. This is how the church has been successful at passing the child sex abuse scandal by its faithful.

The sex abuse scandal is horrific. And everyone involved in it in any way has much to answer for. But your statement prompts one to ask whether the Catholic Church was successful in “passing it by the faithful” since we’re taking all the credit, while an equal percentage of such crimes have been perpetrated by other clergy, not to mention the biggest offenders of all: schoolteachers. You might ask why school systems are for the most part immune to prosecution.

I do not wish to deflect a just attack. That this sandal has festered in the shadows of Catholic diocesan and Religious communities is truly despicable and it must be thoroughly corrected. But be careful of glass houses . . . .

Under the subject of this thread, one might tic one up to the Catholic side because the Catholic Church is taking strenuous measures to insure that this does not continue and that it does not happen again.

 

[mercygate]

The sex abuse scandal is horrific. And everyone involved in it in any way has much to answer for. But your statement prompts one to ask whether the Catholic Church was successful in “passing it by the faithful” since we’re taking all the credit, while an equal percentage of such crimes have been perpetrated by other clergy, not to mention the biggest offenders of all: schoolteachers. You might ask why school systems are for the most part immune to prosecution.

I do not wish to deflect a just attack. That this sandal has festered in the shadows of Catholic diocesan and Religious communities is truly despicable and it must be thoroughly corrected. But be careful of glass houses . . . .

Under the subject of this thread, one might tic one up to the Catholic side because the Catholic Church is taking strenuous measures to insure that this does not continue and that it does not happen again.

 

[Nella]

The sex abuse scandal is horrific. And everyone involved in it in any way has much to answer for. But your statement prompts one to ask whether the Catholic Church was successful in “passing it by the faithful” since we’re taking all the credit, while an equal percentage of such crimes have been perpetrated by other clergy, not to mention the biggest offenders of all: schoolteachers. You might ask why school systems are for the most part immune to prosecution.

. . . .

Why do you merely point fingers?? The Catholic church knew of these offenders for decades and instead of dealing with it, they moved these priests around and in many cases around the globe. Instead of these priests being kicked out of the church, they just went on to wreck the lives of other young people. You don’t see anything wrong with??

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Please get back on track of the subject of this thread. More involved debates about specific subjects should begin in new threads.

God bless-

Rachel

 

[mercygate]

Why do you merely point fingers?? The Catholic church knew of these offenders for decades and instead of dealing with it, they moved these priests around and in many cases around the globe. Instead of these priests being kicked out of the church, they just went on to wreck the lives of other young people. You don’t see anything wrong with??

Of course that was wrong. Was it right for other churches and school systems to slide the same issues out of the public eye? I

I am not “just” pointing fingers. If it is wrong for Catholics to have done this, then it is wrong period. We should not be the only ones dealing with it. Interestingly, shortly after the scandals broke in the press one of the big Baptist conventions (I forget which) came up with a systematic plan for training people who work with children to guard against such abuses.

As for pointing fingers, again I say: glass houses. I am hurt and ashamed at the abuses that occurred among Catholic clergy. I know a pastor who was asked to guard-dog a priest assigned to his parish after he had supposedly been rehabilitated. My friend, only by chance, discovered that he was beginning to nurture another brood of victims right under his nose. He called together a team of parents and they all went to the bishop with the evidence. The bishop removed the guy from the parish. Later he was inhibited (no longer allowed to function as a priest). So not every case of abuse was ignored.

And remember, for a long time people really believed that these guys could be rehabilitated.

 

[Grateful4mercy]

Why do you merely point fingers?? The Catholic church knew of these offenders for decades and instead of dealing with it, they moved these priests around and in many cases around the globe. Instead of these priests being kicked out of the church, they just went on to wreck the lives of other young people. You don’t see anything wrong with??

Honestly, Nella. Do you have to do this in EVERY thread? I keep thinking I’ll wonder into a thread about pie recipes and find you railing against pedophile priests there too. What’s your beef? Give it a break. The guilty are paying for their crimes and the church is making reparations. What will be good enough for you? Public hangings of every last Catholic? Sheesh.