What are the spiritual benefits of praying to the saints and Mary?

[Chong]

You just don’t get it.

You ever wonder why Mormons quote those same verses?

They read it through the wrong world view. You do the same.

Ok, give your view of it then we compare the wrong side and the right side.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Ok, give your view of it then we compare the wrong side and the right side.

My view is the view of the apostles, the apostles worldview is protected and passed on through the Catholic Church. It’s found in the catechism of the church.

It is not my opinion or preference, not yours, it is theirs, the authors themselves. It is Paul’s writings in the context of his oral words spoken.

 

[Chong]

My view is the view of the apostles, the apostles worldview is protected and passed on through the Catholic Church. It’s found in the catechism of the church.

It is not my opinion or preference, not yours, it is theirs, the authors themselves. It is Paul’s writings in the context of his oral words spoken.

Ok, Jon S. Are you implying we check in the catechism books?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Ok, Jon S. Are you implying we check in the catechism books?

No, although it is a good summary of historic Christian teaching.

What I am implying is that you should trust that Christ is capable of protecting his truth in his church over time. That he is capable of protecting the message. That he is capable ensuring what was taught by himself is still taught today.

Jesus is God right!

He gave authority to his apostles, great authority, see Matthew 16,18 and John 20 among others.

The authority was passed on, the message was preserved and taught. The same message taught in the first century is taught today and there is no need to reinvent the message which is what happens when you remove the Bible from its historic source. From the tradition that existed before the new Testsment was written.

So read the early church fathers. Read their words. Guys like Ignatius of Antioch, friend of Polycarp. Read him describe the Eucharist, the Bishops authority, the Catholic faith.

Read them, and then you will see that you were reading out of context.

It’s like reading a book Cleopatra and coming to conclusions about her life. M

Then you find more writings about her from primary sources and then you find a library of writings from her followers over a thousand years and they refute what you had originally held as true.

Do you hold to your erroneous single source? Or do you read the context of everything and adjust your thinking.

Remember too, in John 14, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit that would guide his followers in “all truth”.

To reject Catholicism is to say Jesus and the Holy Spirit were not up to the task and the church failed.

 

[jatkins29]

Background:

It got me wondering as to why Catholics so freely are able to pray to saints and Mary. I am not condemning this practice or looking down on it in any way because I realize there is a God and I’m not Him and I realize there is additional wisdom that I may not have come across in my life.

I just want to better understand the reasons behind the practice because it is totally foreign to me and makes me feel (at first impression) like I am end-arounding God by not going to Him directly and that it is adding complexity to the whole equation by praying to others in heaven.

Question 1:: *What does praying to saints and to Mary accomplish in your life that praying to God directly through Christ can’t accomplish? *

**Question 2: ***What I am missing out on for not doing so? *

Thanks in advance for your insights. :tiphat:

Hi Tommy,

I completely understand where you are coming from having converted from the Protestant to the Catholic Church. I see a common misconception in your original post so I’d like to clear up that we don’t “pray to” Mary or “pray to” the Saints. We ask them to “pray for” us and intercede on our behalf - just as you’d ask your minister or a family member to pray for you. Why ask them when you can go directly to God? Because when we pray we don’t pray alone. We have the power of all of those who have entered heaven as they are a continuation of the Church. (Our God is the God of the living and not the dead). Intercessory prayer is good and pleasing to God (1 Timothy 2: 1-3). Whenever you hear someone use “pray to” they use that term differently than the Protestant faith. “Pray to” in the Catholic Chuch means to make a request. This was very hard for me to understand when I was converting but now it makes perfect sense.

To answer question #1: We are not “going around” God by asking for Mary and the saints to pray for us. They hold no special power of their own. We too agree that there is one mediator - the man Christ Jesus and asking for intercession is part of His mediatorship. Is it required in the Catholic Church to ask for their intercession? No, but I personally want all the good guys up in heaven to pray with and for me too! Why would a person who was truly devout to God and prayed constantly on Earth stop this behavior when they get to heaven??

To answer question #2: Your prayers are still heard by God. Having a perfected saint/Mary in heaven only adds to the benefit of praying to God. God is pleased when we invoke those in heaven to pray with us. Just think of having a whole army with you when you kneel down in prayer.

 

[Brandall]

Hi Tommy,

I completely understand where you are coming from having converted from the Protestant to the Catholic Church. I see a common misconception in your original post so I’d like to clear up that we don’t “pray to” Mary or “pray to” the Saints. We ask them to “pray for” us and intercede on our behalf - just as you’d ask your minister or a family member to pray for you. Why ask them when you can go directly to God? Because when we pray we don’t pray alone. We have the power of all of those who have entered heaven as they are a continuation of the Church. (Our God is the God of the living and not the dead). Intercessory prayer is good and pleasing to God (1 Timothy 2: 1-3). Whenever you hear someone use “pray to” they use that term differently than the Protestant faith. “Pray to” in the Catholic Chuch means to make a request. This was very hard for me to understand when I was converting but now it makes perfect sense.

To answer question #1: We are not “going around” God by asking for Mary and the saints to pray for us. They hold no special power of their own. We too agree that there is one mediator - the man Christ Jesus and asking for intercession is part of His mediatorship. Is it required in the Catholic Church to ask for their intercession? No, but I personally want all the good guys up in heaven to pray with and for me too! Why would a person who was truly devout to God and prayed constantly on Earth stop this behavior when they get to heaven??

To answer question #2: Your prayers are still heard by God. Having a perfected saint/Mary in heaven only adds to the benefit of praying to God. God is pleased when we invoke those in heaven to pray with us. Just think of having a whole army with you when you kneel down in prayer.

We, as Catholics, absolutely do pray to Mary. Prayer does not imply worship.

 

[jatkins29]

Yes and no. It’s best to say that we pray “with” Mary and the saints. There is a sense that we do “pray to” Mary though, but we don’t pray to her in the same way as we do to God. In this sense we are using the word “pray” in an archaic sense. We are using the word “pray” to mean “ask” or “request”. Therefore when we “pray” to Mary we are asking her to pray for us and with us. This is expressed most clearly in the the Rosary.

This is the way I was taught in RCIA. Not an easy concept for non-Catholics to understand and is easily misunderstood if one does not understand why we ask for intercession.

 

[ptisme]

Yes and no. It’s best to say that we pray “with” Mary and the saints. There is a sense that we do “pray to” Mary though, but we don’t pray to her in the same way as we do to God. In this sense we are using the word “pray” in an archaic sense. We are using the word “pray” to mean “ask” or “request”. Therefore when we “pray” to Mary we are asking her to pray for us and with us. This is expressed most clearly in the the Rosary.

This is the way I was taught in RCIA. Not an easy concept for non-Catholics to understand and is easily misunderstood if one does not understand why we ask for intercession.

This is the way I understand it. Also, for protestants who have concerns with the rosary: Have them look at something that explains how to pray the rosary. We aren’t focusing on Mary when we pray the rosary, we are focusing on the different aspects of Christ’s life.