J
jpm1977
Guest
I am a relative newcomer to these forums. I was baptised Catholic, but am a former agnostic currently coming into the faith through RCIA and will be confirmed at Easter vigil this year.
I must say, I am absolutely dismayed at much of what I see in this forum. The insinuations of heresy and apostasy, the unanswerable debates that only serve to inflame passions of Catholics against other Catholics, the barely informed accusations, and on and on.
What of Christian charity? And more importantly, why?
Why these debates? What is the point? What will be answered? Will a papal commission read these threads and put the debates to rest with more definitive statements? No. Since the Pope or the Magisterium is the only entity that can end these debates, and since those entities will or will not do without any reference to what is going on here, what positive result comes from all this?
How many here are theologians? How many are canon lawyers or church historians? Some, to be sure, but many more are not, and their half-informed or uninformed opinions on both sides of this unfortunate divide and biases only poison the well, and shock and scare less opinionated or new Catholics like myself who come to this site to learn about the Church.
I would humbly ask everyone here to read Romans 14:
*Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:
" ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’ "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13**Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22**So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.**** Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
I would humbly and lovingly ask everyone here to ask themselves whether the time spent on this board disputing with one another about doctrine, and dogma, and the Council of Florence and Trent, and Vatican II, and on and on, whether their time might be better spent tending to their own faith and salvation and that of their families and neighbors by going out into the world and being a light to others, and praying and teaching our children and witnessing to our friends and neighbors with charity.
In the past, the Pope has condemned such rancorous debates (consider Pius X on frequent and daily communion), and has issued an instruction that debate and disputation on the matter should be ended. This was easy to do when such debate could only occur outside the view of most of the laity (at universities and in scholarly journals, newspapers, etc.). The internet makes it impossible to do such a thing today, but I wish it could be done. The internet has allowed us, the laity, to enter into these unproductive and spiritually damaging debates on issues on which most of us are not qualified to speak. And it can be done anonymously, which fosters coarse tone and rhetoric that would never be done face to face, and it is a shame.
I plan to go tend to my own faith, and don’t intend to come back here. Everyone is free to do as they wish, but please consider what I’ve written here, as I doubt I am the only one who has had the same experience.
Peace*
I must say, I am absolutely dismayed at much of what I see in this forum. The insinuations of heresy and apostasy, the unanswerable debates that only serve to inflame passions of Catholics against other Catholics, the barely informed accusations, and on and on.
What of Christian charity? And more importantly, why?
Why these debates? What is the point? What will be answered? Will a papal commission read these threads and put the debates to rest with more definitive statements? No. Since the Pope or the Magisterium is the only entity that can end these debates, and since those entities will or will not do without any reference to what is going on here, what positive result comes from all this?
How many here are theologians? How many are canon lawyers or church historians? Some, to be sure, but many more are not, and their half-informed or uninformed opinions on both sides of this unfortunate divide and biases only poison the well, and shock and scare less opinionated or new Catholics like myself who come to this site to learn about the Church.
I would humbly ask everyone here to read Romans 14:
*Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:
" ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’ "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13**Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22**So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.**** Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
I would humbly and lovingly ask everyone here to ask themselves whether the time spent on this board disputing with one another about doctrine, and dogma, and the Council of Florence and Trent, and Vatican II, and on and on, whether their time might be better spent tending to their own faith and salvation and that of their families and neighbors by going out into the world and being a light to others, and praying and teaching our children and witnessing to our friends and neighbors with charity.
In the past, the Pope has condemned such rancorous debates (consider Pius X on frequent and daily communion), and has issued an instruction that debate and disputation on the matter should be ended. This was easy to do when such debate could only occur outside the view of most of the laity (at universities and in scholarly journals, newspapers, etc.). The internet makes it impossible to do such a thing today, but I wish it could be done. The internet has allowed us, the laity, to enter into these unproductive and spiritually damaging debates on issues on which most of us are not qualified to speak. And it can be done anonymously, which fosters coarse tone and rhetoric that would never be done face to face, and it is a shame.
I plan to go tend to my own faith, and don’t intend to come back here. Everyone is free to do as they wish, but please consider what I’ve written here, as I doubt I am the only one who has had the same experience.
Peace*
