What are we going to do? The Black Madonna defaced

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I got 99 problems, but worrying about being massacred at Mass ain’t one.
If it should happen, then I can’t think of a better place to check out.

I am usually more concerned with someone attacking the priest since there have been several recent incidents of that. I hope I’d be one of the old ladies slugging the attacker with a candlestick if it happened.
 
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Once vandalizing Crosses, statues & Churches becomes “old hat” for these radicals, they will start attacking people at prayer.
A prelude to modern day version of the Reign of Terror??

Many of local and state authority have allowed violent mobs to run wild. Who would protect the Churches and religious institutions? The angry mobs have already had their eyes on statue of Christ. They have declared Catholic missionaries as imperialists. They have already said Christianity has promoted hatred and bigotry.
 
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Hodos:
I think individual parishes can hire security to ensure that religious artwork and property are not vandalized or destroyed. I also think we should pray for those who persecute us.
Who is going to foot the bill for this security? In my town a security guard makes between 18 and 35 K per year. To provide a guard at all times, 3 shifts per day, allowing for sickness, call outs, vacation, you would need 6 full time people. Add in their benefits, you are talking about nothing less than an extra 10K per month coming out of your parish collection plate.
Most of our Cathedrals have security when the Bishops are celebrating mass.

Most people who are calling for security guards are not suggesting that the parish have a security guard at the Church 24x7.

Security Cameras are usually enough for the majority of the time. Security guards would only be at the church during Mass times and perhaps other times when large numbers of people are at the Church (weddings, funerials, special events, etc)

I know the pastor at my territorial parish has been looking at security for the last few years. He hired a security consultant to provide recommendations (or a Catholic one did it for free, not sure).

He also installed cameras around the Church & added pincode access to two doors to allow access during off hours. The Chapel is always open until 9PM each M-F, but sometimes people need access to the parish center or access to the Church on Sat or Sun nights. So the pin comes in handy. Father can set a guest pin so people who only need one time access don’t have to receive the official code.

He’s looking to computerize the doors so that once mass starts, all the doors except one lock from the outside. All doors would continue open for exiting, but only one would open from the outside once Mass begins.

Once that is installed, when the time comes for security guards, either a hired guard or a parishioner who is also a police officer will man that one door during mass.
 
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I know the pastor at my territorial parish has been looking at security for the last few years. He’s looking to computerize the doors so that once mass starts, all the doors except one lock from the outside. All doors would open to exit, but only one would open from the outside once Mass begins.

Then, when the time comes for security guards, either a hired guard or a parishioner who is also a police officer would man that door.
The angry mobs have been burning down buildings and properties in the PRESENCE of the police. They have even had the audacity to attack the police and injured hundreds (maybe thousands by now) of policemen.

What could security guards do??
 
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phil19034:
I know the pastor at my territorial parish has been looking at security for the last few years. He’s looking to computerize the doors so that once mass starts, all the doors except one lock from the outside. All doors would open to exit, but only one would open from the outside once Mass begins.

Then, when the time comes for security guards, either a hired guard or a parishioner who is also a police officer would man that door.
The angry mobs have been burning down buildings and properties in the PRESENCE of the police. They have even had the audacity to attack the police. What could security guards do??
lock the door & prevent criminal access until the police arrives.

Remember, for centuries, the Church has Porters at our parishes, whose job it was to keep people who would case harm out. This is not a new idea.
 
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Remember, for centuries, the Church has Porters at our parishes, whose job it was to keep people who would case harm out. This is not a new idea.
I understand your point. But would the “porters” (security guards) now be allowed to use force if the police either: are not allowed to come; or are not allowed to protect the churches from destruction?

Now, it’s not even clear or prudent for bishops/priests to allow their own security guards to use force to protect their buildings.
 
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Most people who are calling for security guards are not suggesting that the parish have a security guard at the Church 24x7.
Yeah, like I said, I have no idea what right looks like. I just think our society is changing extremely fast, and becoming very hostile to anyone of faith at a faster and faster pace. With the recent Supreme Court ruling thrown on top of the general unrest being encouraged and fomented by the political left and media, I think a rise in confrontations with the secular world are going to start in earnest, and that includes physical confrontations in some cases. People are going to have to start assessing the security concerns of their parishes.
 
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we could"

1 remove all our religious statues from public view

2 we could put big fences around our statues

3 or we could continue to live good Christian lives and pray for those who commit vandalism

I vote for #3
One can support #3, but also support at same time #4, 5, 6.
  1. Persuade leaders of Catholic institutions to support Catholic Identity, to stop supporting political correctness across the board.
  2. Persuade diocesan leaders to withdraw from ecumenical arrangements, or Peace and Justice coalitions, with groups that promote or condone iconoclasm
  3. Press politicians to treat anti Catholicism as a hate crime, to stop giving into demands by protesters that fail to renounce vandals.
We do 4, 5, 6 not instead of#3, but at same time.
 
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phil19034:
Remember, for centuries, the Church has Porters at our parishes, whose job it was to keep people who would case harm out. This is not a new idea.
I understand your point. But would the “porters” (security guards) now be allowed to use force if the police either: are not allowed to come; or are not allowed to protect the churches from destruction?

Now, it’s not even clear or prudent for bishops/priests to allow their own security guards to use force to protect their buildings.
This is above my pay grade.

My guess is that they would be tasked with primarily keeping the door locked.

What they do if a person gets in the Church and ready to cause harm is above my pay grade.
 
It’s so sad if it comes to this in our city. Several of the organizations that provide help and hope for the marginalized (including many African Americans) are Catholic, and several of our Catholic parishes are located in some of the poorest and most dangerous neighborhoods.

Interestingly, two of these parishes are run by the Franciscan friars, who take an oath of poverty, and who live in housing right next to their parishes in these neighborhoods.

And the Latin Mass parish is right in the middle of it all!–in fact, during the protests, we see the Latin Mass parish right there, protesters standing in their parking lot, during the television coverage! And their priest lives in housing (very old and historic) right next door to that old, historic church!

It’s just awful to think that violence could touch these organizations or parishes that have worked so hard since the founding of our city to help minorities and immigrants, even though the minorities seldom become Catholic (other than the Latinos and some of the Asian immigrants). So sad and so pointless.

I keep asking why these protests don’t take place on the “rich, white” side of town, where all the people with money, the company owners, the doctors and lawyers, the teachers and professors, the white pastors, the wealthiest churches and parishes, the best hotels and restaurants, and many of the “good” grocery store chains, are. WE are the people who need to be educated and challenged to do more to stop racism!

Other than one march/rally, which resulted in vandalism and violence on the “good side” of town (which definitely turned many of the rich, white, influential, and even the decent Christian people AGAINST the demonstrators), there have been no other attempts to cross over into areas where those people live who make and enforce policies that supposedly adversely affect minorities, and own companies that supposedly continue to ignore the needs of minorities and the poor.

But instead, the protesters stick with marchs, rallies, demonstrations, and educational events in their “hood”–where everyone already agrees with them and they feel powerful and accepted and “safe”.

I don’t get it. No wonder nothing changes.

But I will say that if they go to the “good side” of town, they need to consider using methods that will be effective with prosperous people who have worked hard all their lives to attain their comfortable lives. Toppling statues, violence, vandalism, graffitti, foul language, emotional hype with no substance, etc. will NOT be effective with people who are used to brainstorming sessions, sit-down face-to-face talks, calmness, waiting your turn to speak, etc.

I just heard on our television that the weekly “listening sessions” that the city leaders have organized to “listen” to the stories and suggestions of black people are being BOYCOTTED by BLM because they want the changes to happen FIRST, and then they will attend listening sessions. 😱

That won’t work, and if they can’t see and understand that this won’t work, Then THEY are the ones who need to listen.
 
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I keep asking why these protests don’t take place on the “rich, white” side of town, where all the people with money, the company owners, the doctors and lawyers, the teachers and professors, the white pastors, the wealthiest churches and parishes, the best hotels and restaurants, and many of the “good” grocery store chains, are
Be careful about projecting the comfort level of other persons. Many are going through private struggles, or even private hells, you know nothing about, even if you live in the same zip code.

One thinks of the E. A. Robinson poem, and later, Simon and Garfunkel 1960s song, “Richard Cory”.
 
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I think what we do is remember the real problem, and then of course remember the real answer. The real problem and it’s root is (of course) sin. Racism is just one manifestation of sin. And the answer is holiness. I can’t awaken the whole world out of their sin, but I can face up to my own, and grow in holiness. And I can in my own way point people to the real answer to the things that disturb them so deeply. One thing we all have in common. We hate sin and we hate the fruit of it.
 
WE are the people who need to be educated and challenged to do more to stop racism!
You may speak for yourself, but please do not throw everyone else under the bus.

“Do more to stop racism!” sounds like a meaningless bumper sticker.

What exactly do you suggest “we” should do?
 
“Do more to stop racism!” sounds like a meaningless bumper sticker.

What exactly do you suggest “we” should do?
one thing we could do is get large, wealthy foundations to invest in Black owned businesses in Black neighborhoods. This would also create jobs. Then they could make low interest home ownership loans available. Home ownership is a fast track to building wealth.
 
That won’t work, and if they can’t see and understand that this won’t work, Then THEY are the ones who need to listen.
They’ve been listening for almost 70 years… how much longer are they supposed to keep listening?
 
I think what we do is remember the real problem, and then of course remember the real answer. The real problem and it’s root is (of course) sin. Racism is just one manifestation of sin. And the answer is holiness. I can’t awaken the whole world out of their sin, but I can face up to my own, and grow in holiness. And I can in my own way point people to the real answer to the things that disturb them so deeply. One thing we all have in common. We hate sin and we hate the fruit of it.
This is the answer.

The proper response is not to oppose BLM or shaun King or whoever, but to become more ardent advocates of the justice sought. It is not right to anti-Catholic rhetoric to divide Catholics from the cause of justice. We should be leaders whose voices can drown out the voices of extremists.

The Catholic Church does not support injustice. We support justice for all. If we have not lived up to that, we need to repent and change our lives. Suggestions that we oppose anticatholic rhetoric miss the point; we should support every just cause, and be out ahead of everyone fighting for justice.
 
one thing we could do is get large, wealthy foundations to invest in Black owned businesses in Black neighborhoods.
Well I see that as something that “large, wealthy foundations” can do, but most of us are not in that group. So again, what is it that we should be “doing?”
 
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This brings to my mind an unfortunate incident a few years back, causing our Church to remain locked during the week when we used to have a side door open at all times so parishioners could come in to pray at any time. That policy had to stop when someone came in an vandalized the tabernacle in the sanctuary, and hosts were strewn all over the floor.

I miss the opportunity to stop in for a few minutes while I’m in town, and visit with our Lord.

Also, we had some beautiful trees growing near the church, and they were all cut down so as to improve the view of people on the premises.

Really too, too bad.

And now, with the defacing of statues and other destruction, I’ll bet parish security tightens up even further.
 
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