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ZemD
Guest
Thank you for your patience.
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Pug
Guest
For me in my own internal life, it matters not a wit, but for me as having to answer questions from people about the news and the Catholic Church, the wide dispersion and brouhaha meant I had to look up what he actually said, so that I could do something better that shrug when asked. It would be nice if I didn’t have to do that so often, but it did happen sometimes with other popes as well (like Koran kissing, sayings about hell, condoms, etc.).
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Re the death penalty business, I was already against the death penalty for decades and can’t figure out why any Catholic would be any other way (except in some extreme situation like we’re in the middle of a war), but I accept that some US folks are bothered by it. I’ve yet to meet any Catholic not from the US who is bothered by it.
Re Amoris Laetitia, after hearing some programs on it hosted by WAOB radio, I was not too concerned about that either. I haven’t divorced or remarried, and those who have can work that stuff out with their own confessors, plus since I used to be a big sinner in other ways and received many Communions that were probably unworthy, I’m the last person to be pointing fingers at anyone else.
Re Fratelli Tutti, I’m not sure what the big deal was and frankly, given that at this point a subgroup of people seem to spend inordinate amounts of time looking for stuff to pick at whenever the Pope releases a document, I turned my hearing aid off. I don’t have time in my life to read long multiple wall-of-text posts on the Internet dissecting a document that basically to me says love your neighbor and care for the earth, both of which to me are basic, obvious teachings that we all should be doing anyway. I’m busy dealing with my own personal issues of an emotional and moral and religious nature in my own life. If somebody else wants to play armchair theology pundit, they can have at it. I’m not your man.
Re Amoris Laetitia, after hearing some programs on it hosted by WAOB radio, I was not too concerned about that either. I haven’t divorced or remarried, and those who have can work that stuff out with their own confessors, plus since I used to be a big sinner in other ways and received many Communions that were probably unworthy, I’m the last person to be pointing fingers at anyone else.
Re Fratelli Tutti, I’m not sure what the big deal was and frankly, given that at this point a subgroup of people seem to spend inordinate amounts of time looking for stuff to pick at whenever the Pope releases a document, I turned my hearing aid off. I don’t have time in my life to read long multiple wall-of-text posts on the Internet dissecting a document that basically to me says love your neighbor and care for the earth, both of which to me are basic, obvious teachings that we all should be doing anyway. I’m busy dealing with my own personal issues of an emotional and moral and religious nature in my own life. If somebody else wants to play armchair theology pundit, they can have at it. I’m not your man.
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MadeAnew
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Every time I log into my social media it is Protestant group after Protestant group dragging the Church and spreading fear and panic to non-members creating more hate towards the Church. Protestant friends and family use it as a way to prove the Church is wrong and is the devil. You try to explain the truth and they refuse to listen and continue on because of the already poor opinion they have of the Church. I know they are faithful in their own way but it saddens me and yet I commend them for their faithfulness. I feel sad that they have hardened their hearts to the point of refusing to listen. I love the Church and I pray something like this will not stop others from seeing its truth and coming back home. But, I was happy to hear in the news that a group of Catholics have gone to the Vatican square asking Francis to clarify his statements to the world. I think it’s awful that his laity have to do such a thing for this to be clarified but I am happy it will hopefully be clarified for the world.
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MarysLurker
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This is one of the major side effects of the Franciscan teachings. Dialogue with Protestants is over. (Unless you count the extinct mainliners.)
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PennyinCanada
Guest
If you have to deal with family members harassing you about Catholic teaching, it’s a tough place to be. You don’t have to defend anything. They are closed minded toward things of God and nothing you say will do any good other than making you crazy and wearing you down. If it’s not the Pope, it will be something else.
You might want to think about a reply that has some humour. If they like a sports team, say the Pope probably pulls for … the team they hate. If there is a food they hate, say the Pope probably likes … what ever that is. The pope probably eats broccoli. Then move on. It seems a lot of people, if they find something annoys you, they will make sure they do it more.
We have our own things to take care of. Let’s do them and do them well for Christ. Let the bullets go past and the bombs go off. Stay on task that’s yours. Don’t let the hostile folks wear you down.
You might want to think about a reply that has some humour. If they like a sports team, say the Pope probably pulls for … the team they hate. If there is a food they hate, say the Pope probably likes … what ever that is. The pope probably eats broccoli. Then move on. It seems a lot of people, if they find something annoys you, they will make sure they do it more.
We have our own things to take care of. Let’s do them and do them well for Christ. Let the bullets go past and the bombs go off. Stay on task that’s yours. Don’t let the hostile folks wear you down.
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MarysLurker
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Understood. I just wanted to try to understand your thinking process for the model I am building of where different groups of Catholics stand.
Tis_Bearself
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Dialogue with Protestants wasn’t making great leaps and bounds under Pope Benedict either.
If you’re using the forum for some kind of a research project, I hope you’re being open and ethical about that.
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MarysLurker
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It’s not a secret or anything like that. There’s a thread on it.
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MadeAnew
Guest
It is a violation of ethics to use people in an observation without them knowing. I know there is anonymity here but it is still our own personal views with others and yes this is a public forum but we try to help each other here and share Church teaching. I am not being rude about this but some may not want their faith used as an example in something they have no idea about or what it will be used for.
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MarysLurker
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If it’s a violation of ethics to ask people for their opinions on a web forum, I think all of us are in serious trouble.
And if a Catholic just trying to understand other Catholics for the purpose of heping their own children to understand the Pope’s teachings is a “violation of ethics…” then I am right about things I wish I wasn’t.
So we see how it begins. If you aren’t on board with the “consensus” on Pope Francis, there’s something shady/unethical/weird about you or maybe you’re not really a Catholic, etc.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Well, I hereby do NOT give any consent for my responses on this forum to be used for your model-building, so kindly just count me out, please. If you want to read and think about what you read, find, but this “building a model” project doesn’t sit right with me.
As the other person said, this is a place where we have discussions that are supposed to be friendly and attempt to address others’ legitimate questions abou the Church. It is not a place for us to serve as guinea pigs for someone who wants to do some study about what they think is going to happen to the Church.
As the other person said, this is a place where we have discussions that are supposed to be friendly and attempt to address others’ legitimate questions abou the Church. It is not a place for us to serve as guinea pigs for someone who wants to do some study about what they think is going to happen to the Church.
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umamibella
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I am going to second this and say the same to you @MarysLurker.
I am also going to say, I am Australian.
The death penalty is a non issue in countries that abolished it last century. Those objecting to this magisterium stance of the death penalty are a tiny subset of a subset of Catholics globally.
The documents you quote, have you read them? Do so, then post up a discussion on each one.
@MadeAnew if you are talking about that mashed up , highly edited grab from a documentary this is not any announcement from Pope Francis, does not support any type of homosexual sexual union, and just shows
how little trust and faith there is in the Magisterium, its role in leading the Church, and just how much trust and faith people have in the media ( regardless of certain politicians trying to swing public favour in the opposite direction)
So where does the problem lay within the Church , which is all Catholics, that people choose truth in deceitful edited mashed up screen grabs, ( no doubt done for publicity by the creator, who himself has a homosexual agenda) rather then being level headed enough to say, lets at least wait for the documentary and what Pope Francis was responding too.
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meltzerboy2
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I like that saying you have in the UK, and it makes me hungry for fish and chips.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
As much as I hate to say this, I always feel like US people take issue with this alleged “change” to CDC (which I and many other people don’t see as being much of a change) not out of concern over Church doctrine, but because US people are uncomfortable with the idea of being unable to execute criminals they consider heinous.
Never mind that very few people on death row ever end up getting actually executed and that there have likely been some innocent persons executed, which I understand also happened in some other countries like England and that is one big reason why those countries don’t have the death penalty anymore.
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Pug
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No, it is not so. I am in the USA and I actively want it outlawed here, but I do not fully understand all that the pope wishes to say on the topic. I feel I would have to guess, and I am not competent to guess. I can say that I think he wants it outlawed in the USA, but he says more than that.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Well, it’s good to know at least some US people are questioning the teaching in earnest for doctrinal reasons, and not just because they think there’s some underlying benefit to society from engaging in the convuluted, costly, and unreliable US execution process.
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umamibella
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Yes and I get that. It is change in something deeply ingrained in your country. I can imagine a few things that would cause the same reaction here. We used to execute people here, no doubt some innocent, and some politically motivated ( especially in our Colonial days, and with the white Australia policy).
These reasons listed on this website link below, second heading , were why we abolished it in 1985, our last execution was in 1967 Ronald Ryan , a household name here because he was the last. He shot a prison guard while trying to escape from Pentridge Prison in Melbourne. His guilt in the shooting of the guard was in question, and contested and there was a lot of opposition to his being hanged. The then Victorian Premier, Henry Bolte was determined to hang him.
https://www.dfat.gov.au/internation...s-strategy-for-abolition-of-the-death-penalty
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Pug
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I’m not just horrified by the absurd and unjust process, but that people have been found innocent, so I can’t help but figure not all of them are found “in time”. It is a travesty.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I tend to object mostly on the process grounds because if I say “and some people are probably innocent”, others will come back with, “Fine, but there are plenty of them who are clearly guilty through DNA/ their own personal admission/ other strong evidence. So execute those.”
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