What are we to make of Assisi?

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rben20

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Catholics and other peeps,

I am concerned about the meetings at Assisi and altogether any ecumenism. I have no problem proclaiming the Truth of the Faith but to me this has not been the case so as to not “offend” people. I don’t see how any of the modern developments since the 60s really help the Church or for that matter provided clearer teaching. What are we to make of Assisi and ecumenism in light of Pope Pius XI’s encyclical Mortalium Animos, On Christian Unity.

It can be found here:
[papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM](http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM)

Doesn’t the Pope’s warning in this encyclical shake the Second Vatican Council and recent actions of Pope Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI?

For the record, I agree much more with Pope Pius XI.
 
First, you link is broken.

Here it is fixed.

Mortalium Animos - On Religious Unity

I am starting to wonder about this myself (maybe I am becoming a bit more “traditional” in my mindset lately).

I think it is a good idea to link the actual Vatican II document so that we have full context, everyone can read what is said in both.

Here it is.

Decree on Ecumenism - Unitatis Rediintegratio

I have printed both out and will read them over the next couple of days and let you what I think. That is if you care what I think.
 
You’re concerned about ecumenism? Really? I wonder if you know how many of the greatest saints in the Church were ecumenists.
 
Is this a correct definition of ecumenism?

A Catholic must stand fast to the Foundation Stone (Jesus and His Church) and then attempt to find the Light of Christ in other denominations and in non-Christian faiths.

A person has to like St. Paul in order to do that. To become the “every man” but to also be in fear and trembling over his own salvation.
 
white_sheep said:
You’re concerned about ecumenism? Really? I wonder if you know how many of the greatest saints in the Church were ecumenists.
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How about a list of saints and sources for this comment
ProVobis said:
If I may say, I think you need to distinguish between ecumenism and conversion.
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How true.

It is starting to get scary how much I am starting to agree with the “traditionalist” around here.
 
white_sheep said:
You’re concerned about ecumenism? Really? I wonder if you know how many of the greatest saints in the Church were ecumenists.
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St Francis de Sales was a model of ecumenism. The difference between his true ecumenism and the false ecumenism we are experiencing is that our great Saint brought back untold numbers of the faithful out of protestantism and brought them back to the True Faith, undiluted and untainted.

How happy this thread has made me. Brother David, I’ll pray for you during your studies of the documents.
 
There was an article on here many months ago about a Catholic Church in Alaska, where a Bishop was going to allow the Episcopal Church to use the Church building for a ceremony and the congregation as a body had to intervene.

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2569517/posts

“Catholic parish (in Alaska) to host Episcopal Church ordination of gay rights proponent”
August 12, 2010

"Katharine Jefferts Schori, the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, will ordain an Episcopal cleric from New York State as the Episcopal bishop of Alaska on September 4. The ceremony will take place at a Catholic parish in Anchorage.

Until recently, Lattime was a member of the Episcopal Diocese of Rochester’s Committee for Gay and Lesbian Ministry, which “seeks to further the cause of recognition and legitimization of lesbian and gay relationships within the church and in civil society.” Lattime is married and has three children.

“Catholic churches are consecrated or blessed buildings which have an important theological and liturgical significance for the Catholic community,” the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity notes in its 1993 Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism.

“They are therefore generally reserved for Catholic worship. However, if priests, ministers or communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church do not have a place or the liturgical objects necessary for celebrating worthily their religious ceremonies, the diocesan Bishop may allow them the use of a church or a Catholic building and also lend them what may be necessary for their services.”

There are four Episcopal Church congregations in Anchorage."
 
maurin said:
How happy this thread has made me. Brother David, I’ll pray for you during your studies of the documents.
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What has lead me to question this “ecumenism” stuff is an interfaith service (that’s what our local Diocesen newspaper called it even though everyone involved was Christian so it should have been called an ecumenical service) that occurred here in Tucson no long ago.

I posted a question about presbyterian ministers in the Non-Catholic forum, so you can go there to take a look at the picture. I find that I have issues with the Bishop sharing in an “interfaith” service with a woman minister who is wearing a stole. The other two in the picture with the bishop are the episcopal bishop of Tucson and a minister from the evangelical lutherians. Both of which would have the tradition of a stole. I was asking if this was also a tradition of the presbyterians but it is still unclear to me.
 
Barbkw said:
There was an article on here many months ago about a Catholic Church in Alaska, where a Bishop was going to allow the Episcopal Church to use the Church building for a ceremony and the congregation as a body had to intervene.

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2569517/posts

“Catholic parish (in Alaska) to host Episcopal Church ordination of gay rights proponent”
August 12, 2010

"Katharine Jefferts Schori, the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, will ordain an Episcopal cleric from New York State as the Episcopal bishop of Alaska on September 4. The ceremony will take place at a Catholic parish in Anchorage.

Until recently, Lattime was a member of the Episcopal Diocese of Rochester’s Committee for Gay and Lesbian Ministry, which “seeks to further the cause of recognition and legitimization of lesbian and gay relationships within the church and in civil society.” Lattime is married and has three children. -
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What is interesting about that blog post is how the Catholic church isn’t exactly named. Without such information, we can’t gauge if it is actually a Catholic church in communion with Rome or some schismatic group like Old Catholics or the United Catholic Church.
 
Barbkw said:
There was an article on here many months ago about a Catholic Church in Alaska, where a Bishop was going to allow the Episcopal Church to use the Church building for a ceremony and the congregation as a body had to intervene.

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2569517/posts

“Catholic parish (in Alaska) to host Episcopal Church ordination of gay rights proponent”
August 12, 2010

"Katharine Jefferts Schori, the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, will ordain an Episcopal cleric from New York State as the Episcopal bishop of Alaska on September 4. The ceremony will take place at a Catholic parish in Anchorage.

Until recently, Lattime was a member of the Episcopal Diocese of Rochester’s Committee for Gay and Lesbian Ministry, which “seeks to further the cause of recognition and legitimization of lesbian and gay relationships within the church and in civil society.” Lattime is married and has three children.

“Catholic churches are consecrated or blessed buildings which have an important theological and liturgical significance for the Catholic community,” the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity notes in its 1993 Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism.

“They are therefore generally reserved for Catholic worship. However, if priests, ministers or communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church do not have a place or the liturgical objects necessary for celebrating worthily their religious ceremonies, the diocesan Bishop may allow them the use of a church or a Catholic building and also lend them what may be necessary for their services.”

There are four Episcopal Church congregations in Anchorage."
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I think what outraged Catholics in this issue is the fact that a woman “bishop” is part of the ceremony. If it were a more traditional group of Episcopalians, it wouldn’t have been an issue.
 
The GLBT news blog “Bent Alaska” reported that the service was finally cancelled at that Catholic Church and moved to a Methodist building.

From Bent Alaska:

“The consecration of Bishop-Elect Mark Andrew Lattime to the Episcopal Diocese of Alaska was set for Sept. 4 at a Catholic Church in Anchorage, but the venue for ordaining the married religious leader was aburptly changed to a Methodist church.”

bentalaska.com/2010/08/catholics-reject-ceremony-for-alaskas-married-gay-friendly-episcopal-bishop/
 
PacoG said:
What is interesting about that blog post is how the Catholic church isn’t exactly named. Without such information, we can’t gauge if it is actually a Catholic church in communion with Rome or some schismatic group like Old Catholics or the United Catholic Church.
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If you read the comments to this blog you will find a link to another blog that lists the name of the Church and gives the listing to the parishes in the Archdiocese of Anchorage which shows that 1) this is a Catholic parish and 2) that the event was moved from the Catholic parish.
 
virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/print.php?storyid=13104

"Episcopal Church Dissed in Two Consecration Venues

Catholic Church says no to TEC in Alaska
Baptist Church says no in Albuquerque

By David W. Virtue and Mary Ann Mueller
www.virtueonline.org
August 14, 2010

The Episcopal Church has been told politely but firmly that they cannot hold the consecration of two Episcopal bishops because of the denomination’s position on sexuality issues that are contrary to Scripture, tradition and history."
 
Barbkw said:
The GLBT news blog “Bent Alaska” reported that the service was finally cancelled at that Catholic Church and moved to a Methodist building.

From Bent Alaska:

“The consecration of Bishop-Elect Mark Andrew Lattime to the Episcopal Diocese of Alaska was set for Sept. 4 at a Catholic Church in Anchorage, but the venue for ordaining the married religious leader was aburptly changed to a Methodist church.”

bentalaska.com/2010/08/catholics-reject-ceremony-for-alaskas-married-gay-friendly-episcopal-bishop/
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Yep, it didn’t push through. The internet was abuzz at that time with opposition. It would have been okay if they were using the parish hall. But this was a female “bishop” on a Catholic altar. Not good.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Yep, it didn’t push through. The internet was abuzz at that time with opposition. It would have been okay if they were using the parish hall. But this was a female “bishop” on a Catholic altar. Not good.
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It wasn’t only about her being a female bishop, it was mainly that this faction of the Episcopal Church ordains openly noncelibate and gay partnered men and women to their priesthood.
 
Also, the Episcopal Church has a new Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Massacusetts, who gave a sermon describing abortions as a “blessing” for the women who undergo them.

The Rev Katherine Hancock Ragsdale also thinks that the people who run abortion clinics are “heroes” and even “saints”.

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=39795

Rev Katherine Ragsdale recently “married” her lover.

"The lesbian service “united” Episcopal Divinity School dean and president, the Very Reverend Katherine Hancock Ragsdale and Mally Lloyd, Canon to the Ordinary. It was the first lesbian marriage solemnized by Thomas Shaw SSJE, Bishop Diocesan of the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts.
 
What does any of this stuff about female bishops have to do with Assisi? These religious meetings in Italy are about more than Catholic ~ Magisterial Protestant relations. Ecumenism of the sort that gives priests the go-ahead to light candles before Buddhist statues is dangerous ecumenism. We must find out if that is really what’s going on at Assisi events. 🙂
 
GloriousOrder said:
What does any of this stuff about female bishops have to do with Assisi? These religious meetings in Italy are about more than Catholic ~ Magisterial Protestant relations. Ecumenism of the sort that gives priests the go-ahead to light candles before Buddhist statues is dangerous ecumenism. We must find out if that is really what’s going on at Assisi events. 🙂
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Its about ecumenism. What the Bishop in Alaska tried to do was be charitable, but it bred false ecumenism. By allowing those who seek to undermine the image of the Ordained to use sacred space.
 
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