What are we to make of Assisi?

[rben20]

Well Brother JR, I feel better about the altar but I still question praying together. As Catholics we are told not to do so as that would give the impression we agree. How do you reconcile the views of the Church during the 1900s which forbade participating in prayer with other groups with the way the Church now does things, which seems that it is ok. We always see the Pope visiting the Synagogues and now holding Assisi for all people to pray at…in their “camps” but still nonetheless praying together. I see a difference that’s all and I question why the change as there is one no doubt there has been a change.

 

[JReducation]

Well Brother JR, I feel better about the altar but I still question praying together. As Catholics we are told not to do so as that would give the impression we agree. How do you reconcile the views of the Church during the 1900s which forbade participating in prayer with other groups with the way the Church now does things, which seems that it is ok. We always see the Pope visiting the Synagogues and now holding Assisi for all people to pray at…in their “camps” but still nonetheless praying together. I see a difference that’s all and I question why the change as there is one no doubt there has been a change.

The rule about not praying with non-Catholics was actually very misunderstood by Catholics and non Catholics, especially the laity. The clergy and male religious have done it for centuries. Franciscans have been praying with Jews and Muslims since the founding of the Custody of the Holy Land by St. Francis in the 13th century.

The Church was always vere skittish about Catholics attending non-Catholic services and rightly so. There were two problems.

1. There was a great deal of animosity between Catholics and non-Catholics. The only ones who talked to each othe in a civil manner were the clergy and rabbis. Somehow they always managed to become good friends. But the laity in both camps were brutal toward each other.
2. The Church wanted to protect the less educated Catholic from being converted. This is still in place today. That’s why the Church has rules about Catholics not receiving communion at any service other than a Catholic mass. We can do it at an Orthodox mass, if there is no Catholic mass available and with the permission of the Orthodox priest.

As hostilities began to die down, the world began to change. You no longer had Catholic ghettos, Protestant ghettos and Jewish ghettos. Suburbia came into existence. Public education expanded. Large secular universities were built., etc etc. People of all faiths live, study and work together. As a result, they become friends. They form bonds. They form communities and they do many good things in common.

There was also WW II. The men who would later become popes from John XX III to Benedict XVI were very involved in ecumenical work during WW II. They often found themselves leading Shabbat services for Jews on a Friday night, because they didn’t have a rabbi. These young priests went underground and led the Jewish people in worship.

As a result of their experience, they found that there is a common desire for the good in all men, regardless of our faith. This desire has to be promoted. Because it comes from God. Only God can inspire us to desire the good, even when we don’t quite know what it may be.

With the warming up of relationships between people of many faiths, because of new living and working conditions and the experience of the men who would later be popes, there came a realization that we had misinterpreted the intention of the Church. The Church did not want us to avoid praying with others.

The Church wanted to protect the innocent and less educated Catholic from being converted away from Catholicism. The Church still does want to do this. However, not praying with non-Catholics is not going to protect Catholics from being converted. The fact is that Catholics rub-shoulders with non-Catholics every day and as I described above, we work together, become friends and often children marry each other. Not praying with a non-Catholic is not going to shelter Catholics.

Finally, as I said, the hostility that existed at one time, is no longer there. There are small pockets of Catholics and non-Catholics who have hostile feelings for each other. But these are so small that they are not significant.

The idea of praying with each other is a very good one, because it’s a common search for what it good. When man finds something to search for, in common with other men, that can lead to closer bonds, greater trust, and greater trust often leads to people wanting to learn more about you. That’s when you can do the catechesis.

As the friars who have worked in Palestine since the 13th century. They have prayed with Jews and Muslims ever since. They never tried to convert them. Francis promised that his brothers would never do that. However, he never promised that his brothers would turn anyone away. Through the centuries, there has been a growth in friendship, leading to trust, leading to questions, leading to catechesis and leading to some conversions. I must add, that this is a very difficult part of the world to work in. The friars are caught between two factions that appear to have no love for each other (Jews and Muslims). However, as the friars alwasy write in their letters, the media does not report on the many neighborhoods, schools and other places where Jews and Muslims work together, live next door to each other, are friends and even take care of each other in times of need. This was initiated by the friars. Both sides trusted the friars. There is a product of shared prayer. It’s only a step, but an important one.

Does that help?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[rben20]

It does help Brother JR, thank you. Of course we don’t want to lose Catholics, it is true. And yes, I work particularly with many protestants and many of them are good friends of mine who though we differ on certain issues will usually join together for like causes. This is no different than what you have mentioned with Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

I guess what still troubles me is why don’t the friars try converting? We are to teach the Gospel to all. I have no doubt the friars know what they are doing, but I do not understand why there is no emphasis on converting? Is conversion only proper then when people sincerely are “looking” for God? If we are not gaining more Christians then what is the point of just creating good relationships on earth when they have no relationship with the True God in Heaven?

 

[ConstantineTG]

It does help Brother JR, thank you. Of course we don’t want to lose Catholics, it is true. And yes, I work particularly with many protestants and many of them are good friends of mine who though we differ on certain issues will usually join together for like causes. This is no different than what you have mentioned with Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

I guess what still troubles me is why don’t the friars try converting? We are to teach the Gospel to all. I have no doubt the friars know what they are doing, but I do not understand why there is no emphasis on converting? Is conversion only proper then when people sincerely are “looking” for God? If we are not gaining more Christians then what is the point of just creating good relationships on earth when they have no relationship with the True God in Heaven?

I’ve read a lot of Br. JR’s posts and from those I can conclude that friars are converting all the time, but subtly, and through their actions. St. Francis prefers the Gospel to be lived, preached with actions and not words. Perhaps that is why they are brought to Assisi, to experience the peace in the place. I mean these people who are invited to come to Assisi aren’t lukewarm believers of their faith, you can’t convert them by discussing with them.

 

[JReducation]

I guess what still troubles me is why don’t the friars try converting? We are to teach the Gospel to all. I have no doubt the friars know what they are doing, but I do not understand why there is no emphasis on converting? Is conversion only proper then when people sincerely are “looking” for God? If we are not gaining more Christians then what is the point of just creating good relationships on earth when they have no relationship with the True God in Heaven?

There are several points to answer this question.

1. Francis promised. Whatever Francis promises the friars are bound to obey under pain of excommunication, unless released by the pope to lay aside Francis’ wishes. The popes do not like tampering with the founders of the major orders of men.
2. Francis understood that conversion is not done by going out to find the non-Catholic and teach him the faith. He understood that conversion was done through example, prayer and penance. He commanded his friars to live that kind of life and to say little. He exemplified this by passing through towns and villages and saying nothing, then telling the friars that they had just preached a sermon by their very presence. In other words, the presence of a friar should be such that it commands attention of those who see him.
3. He never promised to turn away anyone who came seeking to know the Catholic faith. The friars certainly welcome all of these inquirers.
4. The order was founded for the purpose of saving the souls of the friars. It had no defined ministry. The friars could define their own ministry, each according to his talents. Preaching and mission work is one apostolate, there are many others. But the purpose and final ends of the Franciscan family are to achieve to things:

a) To live the Holy Gospel in obedience, especially to the bishops and our Holy Father Francis.

b) To achieve the perfection of poverty.

Now, to live the Holy Gospel covers a much. This certainly includes the command to preach to all nations. The manner of preaching is very unique to each person and to each religiuos family. Just as there are religious communities that are enclosed or hermits who preach by their presence, so do friars preach by their charity and they save their own souls by living as brothers to each other and to the rest of the world. The love between the brothers and the love of the brothers for the people around them does move people in the right direction, sometimes in tiny steps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[rben20]

Thanks to you Brother JR and Constantine. It makes much more sense and I can rest at ease with this issue. I identify well with the friars then since I too believe living the Faith is in many ways a better way of conversion.

 

[JReducation]

I’ve read a lot of Br. JR’s posts and from those I can conclude that friars are converting all the time, but subtly, and through their actions. St. Francis prefers the Gospel to be lived, preached with actions and not words. Perhaps that is why they are brought to Assisi, to experience the peace in the place. I mean these people who are invited to come to Assisi aren’t lukewarm believers of their faith, you can’t convert them by discussing with them.

I’m not inside the pope’s head. But I can see something very important here and I believe that you have captured it well. Assisi is a city of great peace. The presence of St. Francis is very strong 800 years later. There are friars from various branches of the order, there are Franciscan sisters, there are Franciscan nuns, there are many Secular Franciscans who form a very large fraternity.

If you want to bring people to experience the peace of the Gospel and its message, you couldn’t find a better city. The presence of the friars is impressive. You see them moving through the city and yet, you never get to speak to them. They smile and pass on. Their life is that of the Seraphic Father, to preach through their holiness.

Of course, if you want to speak to a friar, sister or secular you just have to ask. But they don’t go after you. They’re simply very present, as was St. Francis.

Assisi has another unique quality, it’s a very quiet city. Those of you who have been there will remember that there are no cars, trains or buses in the original city. There are not commercial radios or loud TVs. It’s a city where people who live and work there are very calm, very kind, and very removed from the difficulties of the world. They have adopted to the Franciscan charism very well. They are in the world, the interact with the world, but they don’t get excited or agitated about the world. Like the Seraphic Father, there is a quiet witness of trust in God.

It’s hard to explain. But it’s the perfect place to bring people of many faiths or no faiths. I can’t think of a better place than to bring them to the hometown and to the tomb of the man who is the universal brother. There is a lot to be learned just be being in the environment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[santodomingo]

The rule about not praying with non-Catholics was actually very misunderstood by Catholics and non Catholics, especially the laity. The clergy and male religious have done it for centuries. Franciscans have been praying with Jews and Muslims since the founding of the Custody of the Holy Land by St. Francis in the 13th century.

I find this hard to believe, Brother. Please give us some evidence of this. In my mind St. Francis was definitely NOT ecumenical, at least not in the modern sense.

The Church was always vere skittish about Catholics attending non-Catholic services and rightly so. There were two problems.

1. There was a great deal of animosity between Catholics and non-Catholics. The only ones who talked to each othe in a civil manner were the clergy and rabbis. Somehow they always managed to become good friends. But the laity in both camps were brutal toward each other.

1. The Church wanted to protect the less educated Catholic from being converted. This is still in place today. That’s why the Church has rules about Catholics not receiving communion at any service other than a Catholic mass. We can do it at an Orthodox mass, if there is no Catholic mass available and with the permission of the Orthodox priest.

As hostilities began to die down, the world began to change. You no longer had Catholic ghettos, Protestant ghettos and Jewish ghettos. Suburbia came into existence. Public education expanded. Large secular universities were built., etc etc. People of all faiths live, study and work together. As a result, they become friends. They form bonds. They form communities and they do many good things in common.

This is a development of society, in other words, circumstancial change. However, I think objections to inter-faith prayers go deeper than this, and focus on essential problems of such a practice. I don´t believe the pre-Vatican II Popes forbade catholic participation interreligious gatherings simply because of the practical issues you have outlined. Rather, I think there are doctrinal reasons why it should not be permitted. The simplest is that there can be no unity of prayer if there is no unity of Faith.

There was also WW II. The men who would later become popes from John XX III to Benedict XVI were very involved in ecumenical work during WW II. They often found themselves leading Shabbat services for Jews on a Friday night, because they didn’t have a rabbi. These young priests went underground and led the Jewish people in worship.

I had never heard of this, but if you say it happened I will believe you. That doesn´t mean I approve of it. Why would a catholic priest want to lead jews in prayer? Wouldn´t he be implicitly denying Christ by such behaviour? The jews deny Our Lord and Saviour, and to pray with the jews is to share that denial. A catholic can talk to them, eat with them, dance with them, and do almost anything with them, except pray with them. We CANNOT share what is explicitly a false religion, an insult to Christ. Whether the jews know that or not, to what degree they are guilty of that, are other questions. We, however, as catholics, cannot be ignorant of the fact that the jews are declared enemies of Christ. We are told to pray FOR our enemies, not to pray WITH them!

As a result of their experience, they found that there is a common desire for the good in all men, regardless of our faith. This desire has to be promoted. Because it comes from God. Only God can inspire us to desire the good, even when we don’t quite know what it may be.

With the warming up of relationships between people of many faiths, because of new living and working conditions and the experience of the men who would later be popes, there came a realization that we had misinterpreted the intention of the Church. The Church did not want us to avoid praying with others.

The “common desire for good” cannot be helped by confirming people of other faiths in their false religions. If they honestly desire good, they should desire He who is the source of all goodness, and it is our duty as catholics to lead them to Him. Who can we lead them to Him if we encourage them to continue in their denial of Him?

The Church wanted to protect the innocent and less educated Catholic from being converted away from Catholicism. The Church still does want to do this. However, not praying with non-Catholics is not going to protect Catholics from being converted. The fact is that Catholics rub-shoulders with non-Catholics every day and as I described above, we work together, become friends and often children marry each other. Not praying with a non-Catholic is not going to shelter Catholics.

I agree in part that not praying with non-catholics in itself is not going to prevent catholics from being converted. But it doesn´t follow from that that it is a good thing to pray with non-catholics. Surely it is far more desireable to foster in catholics a horror of heresy and religious error, as was the case for catholics prior to Vatican II.

I remember a sentence from the book “Angela´s Ashes” by Frank Mcourt (an entertaining and very well written book) about the fear he and his brothers and sisters felt for their father, who was protestant. Each time he got a cold they prayed he wouldn´t die yet, as he was still not in the One True Church. The author to some extent ridicules this attitude, but I find it spiritually healthy. How do we expect catholics to be resistant to false creeds when the notion that anything goes is so predominant?

 

[InquisitorMax]

Joint services with non-Catholics/Orthodox give the laity, on both sides, the idea that there is equivalence in our religions. It’s quite something to see a Catholic priest photographed standing beside a female vicar at in a Protestant church.

Who is the better father? One who admonishes a child who is doing wrong or one who goes along with their error, just to be nice?