What are you protesting?

[wisdomseeker]

Yes, I am saying that it is God who gives us understanding when we read the scriptures. But I also wanted to point out from that verse that Paul was praying for everyone, not just the leaders, to recieve knowledge and understanding about God. This means that he fully believed that knowledge and understanding was for everyone to receive. Not just for the leaders in the Church to interpret what the Bible says. If there is any interpretation needed it is the Holy Spirit not a priest or the pope. That doesn’t mean that leaders in the Church can’t teach, they should. It just means that people should be able to see for themselves, because of the Holy Spirit, what scripture means. Therefore everyone has the obligation to examine, through scripture, what there teacher is saying.
Acts 17:11. “And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.”

Here we go again. these people you are talking about here do you know who they are? they could be jewish rabbis, or teachers or else. moreover you cant simply compare us today with them then. why? because these people were God’s chosen people they are aware of the prophecies they ve been taught, they lived the Word of God. as we know regular people couldnt even touch the the writtten Word of God. stop the nonsense please!

 

[ibkc]

Yes, I am saying that it is God who gives us understanding when we read the scriptures. But I also wanted to point out from that verse that Paul was praying for everyone, not just the leaders, to recieve knowledge and understanding about God. This means that he fully believed that knowledge and understanding was for everyone to receive. Not just for the leaders in the Church to interpret what the Bible says.

Benu, you are aware that the Bible did not exist when Paul wrote his letters - right? And you are aware that the teachings in his time were primarily oral in nature? And that the Bible did not come into existence for another 300 - 350 more years - right?

If there is any interpretation needed it is the Holy Spirit not a priest or the pope.

We agree on this also, since Catholics believe the Holy Spirit guides our Magisterium.

That doesn’t mean that leaders in the Church can’t teach, they should. It just means that people should be able to see for themselves, because of the Holy Spirit, what scripture means. Therefore everyone has the obligation to examine, through scripture, what there teacher is saying.

Since the Catholic Church does not discourage people from reading their Bibles, then this is yet another thing we agree on.

I do wonder why, if there is a universal truth contained in Scripture, and the Holy Spirit guides everyone in finding it, there are so many interpretations of the Bible out there. If there is one truth then how come so many people come to so many different conclusions?

 

[Brian_Millar]

I’d tell her, I’m protesting the public school system for it’s lack of integrity, in this case, allowing this teacher to keep her job…

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I’d tell her, I’m protesting the public school system for it’s lack of integrity, in this case, allowing this teacher to keep her job…

Did you mean this to be in another thread? To what do you refer?

CDL

 

[Brian_Millar]

The original post.

 

[Benu2007]

A whole string of silly interpretations once again. This is exhausting and incredible. He didn’t pray that everyone could interpret Scripture any way they wished. He didn’t say that people could ignore the Church Christ came to establish. St. Paul didn’t do any ministry until after he visited St. Peter in Jerusalem. I brought that point up. What are you suggesting that could possibly be contrary to what I’ve already said? It’s difficult to know what chapters and verses you wish to be read. Are you trying to suggest that Catholics are really after 2000 years being exposed as Judaizers? Your approach is too scattered to make much sense. Come home. Recenter yourself upon Chrsit. BTW I’m glad that you have begun to straighten out your life. This is good. Now come home to Christ’s Church.

CDL

Paul prayed that they could have full understanding, did he not?

As for your idea that Paul didn’t do any ministry until after he visited Peter in Jerusalem is wrong. Read Acts 9:1-32 and Galations 1:15-20 (sorry there shouldn’t have been a 5 in those verses I gave you before).
To summarise After Paul’s conversion he went to Damascus where he started preaching in the Synangogue at once. Then he left Damascus for Arabia then back to Damascus where he stayed for three years before going to meet Peter in Jerusalem. The Bible says that here he did it to get to know Peter. Not that he was ordained a bishop or a preacher by him. God had done that and Paul was already preaching before this point in time. Look up what I am saying to make sure it is true. If not tell me and show me where I am wrong.

 

[Benu2007]

Here we go again. these people you are talking about here do you know who they are? they could be jewish rabbis, or teachers or else. moreover you cant simply compare us today with them then. why? because these people were God’s chosen people they are aware of the prophecies they ve been taught, they lived the Word of God. as we know regular people couldnt even touch the the writtten Word of God. stop the nonsense please!

He doesn’t single out any particular leader or teacher in the church at Ephesus. There is no reason to suggest he isn’t speaking to everyone. We know that there were gentiles in the church at Ephesus because Paul says in Ephesians 2:11 Don’t forget that you Gentiles used to be outsiders. You were called “uncircumcised heathens” by the Jews, who were proud of their circumcision, even though it affected only their bodies and not their hearts.
Everyone common Jew was exposed to the scriptures from an early age. In fact they even had to learn the entire Torah of by heart (that is Genesis to Deuteronomy). The better ones would learn the prophets as well. They would go to the synagogues every Sabbath to hear the scriptures being read out. The scriptures were supposed to be known by all then there is know reason why it shouldn’t be known by all now.

 

[Benu2007]

Benu, you are aware that the Bible did not exist when Paul wrote his letters - right? And you are aware that the teachings in his time were primarily oral in nature? And that the Bible did not come into existence for another 300 - 350 more years - right?

We agree on this also, since Catholics believe the Holy Spirit guides our Magisterium.

Since the Catholic Church does not discourage people from reading their Bibles, then this is yet another thing we agree on.

I do wonder why, if there is a universal truth contained in Scripture, and the Holy Spirit guides everyone in finding it, there are so many interpretations of the Bible out there. If there is one truth then how come so many people come to so many different conclusions?

I certainly wonder this too. However some people are just blind, others refuse, others don’t read there Bible enough to get the big picture. However I still beleive that everyone here knows the way to salvation - that is through Christ and Christ alone. People tend to put different emphasises on different things which is where there is division. However not bad devision. Most of the devision in this forum is over the whether or not the Catholic Church is The Church and on a few other Catholic beliefs. But I doubt anyone here thinks that we don’t need Christ to be saved.

The scriptures was the Old Testament. That is what the New Testament is based on. In a nut shell the Old Testament gave the old convanant - the law, and said that it would be replaced by the new covanant - faith in Christ.
Even though the Bible was not put together as one until about 350 the letters and gospals had been circulating since the time they were written. Peter even says that Pauls letters are like scripture (2 Peter 3:16)

I know we believe that there is nothing wrong with reading the scriptures and having access to them. It’s just others in this forum do not seem to agree, in particular WisdomSeeker. Read some of his posts.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

The original post.

I see.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I certainly wonder this too. However some people are just blind, others refuse, others don’t read there Bible enough to get the big picture. However I still beleive that everyone here knows the way to salvation - that is through Christ and Christ alone. People tend to put different emphasises on different things which is where there is division. However not bad devision. Most of the devision in this forum is over the whether or not the Catholic Church is The Church and on a few other Catholic beliefs. But I doubt anyone here thinks that we don’t need Christ to be saved.

The scriptures was the Old Testament. That is what the New Testament is based on. In a nut shell the Old Testament gave the old convanant - the law, and said that it would be replaced by the new covanant - faith in Christ.
Even though the Bible was not put together as one until about 350 the letters and gospals had been circulating since the time they were written. Peter even says that Pauls letters are like scripture (2 Peter 3:16)

I know we believe that there is nothing wrong with reading the scriptures and having access to them. It’s just others in this forum do not seem to agree, in particular WisdomSeeker. Read some of his posts.

I am sure it bothers you the way of catholics. as catholics we are grounded in our faith, we are the body of Christ through His divine Church. we are confident on the teachings of Christ’s Church. the true doctrine, teaching tha never changes. we do not doubt, we do not need to be checking with Scriptures if our church is teaching the truth because priests have no authority to teaching anything diferent from what whole church teaches. on the other hand i dont blame you for doubting and checking the Bible to make sure your teachers are teaching the Bible which i doubt very much you will be able to do, if you did you would be a catholic by now.

 

[c659smith]

I certainly wonder this too. However some people are just blind, others refuse, others don’t read there Bible enough to get the big picture. However I still beleive that everyone here knows the way to salvation - that is through Christ and Christ alone. People tend to put different emphasises on different things which is where there is division. However not bad devision. Most of the devision in this forum is over the whether or not the Catholic Church is The Church and on a few other Catholic beliefs. But I doubt anyone here thinks that we don’t need Christ to be saved.

The scriptures was the Old Testament. That is what the New Testament is based on. In a nut shell the Old Testament gave the old convanant - the law, and said that it would be replaced by the new covanant - faith in Christ.
Even though the Bible was not put together as one until about 350 the letters and gospals had been circulating since the time they were written. Peter even says that Pauls letters are like scripture (2 Peter 3:16)

I know we believe that there is nothing wrong with reading the scriptures and having access to them. It’s just others in this forum do not seem to agree, in particular WisdomSeeker. Read some of his posts.

Benu

What does the Bible teach you?

Just one question and that is that you said and I quote you below.

"In a nut shell the Old Testament gave the old convanant - the law, and said that it would be replaced by the new covanant ".

Now this is what Jesus said,

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 Truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now does that look familiar to you?

The new testament did not replace the old testament. Do you not agree with Matthew and what Jesus Christ said on the mount?

 

[Benu2007]

Benu

What does the Bible teach you?

Just one question and that is that you said and I quote you below.

"In a nut shell the Old Testament gave the old convanant - the law, and said that it would be replaced by the new covanant ".

Now this is what Jesus said,

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 Truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now does that look familiar to you?

The new testament did not replace the old testament. Do you not agree with Matthew and what Jesus Christ said on the mount?

If you read my post you’ll see that I say the New Testament is based on the Old Testament. Not that it replaces it. What I am saying is that we are not saved by the law - the old covenant. How can we be? It would mean keeping every requirement of the law. it would mean animal sacrifices again. Christ says in that paragraph that we must be completely righteous. More so than the pharisees.

Yet Romans 3:9-19 says this.

*9 Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles,[a] are under the power of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,
“No one is righteous—
not even one.
11 No one is truly wise;
no one is seeking God.
12 All have turned away;
all have become useless.
No one does good,
not a single one.”
13 “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their tongues are filled with lies.”
“Snake venom drips from their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “They rush to commit murder.
16 Destruction and misery always follow them.
17 They don’t know where to find peace.”
18 “They have no fear of God at all.”

19 Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.*

So none of us are perfect yet Christ says that unless our righteousness is great then we can’t enter the kingdom of heaven. But then read what Paul continues to say in Romans 3:21-31.

*21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.*

So you see Christ has made it possible for us to place our faith in Him and be saved because we all fall short of God’s perfect standard. Notice how Christ said that He has come to fufil the Law. It was because of that that we can put our faith in Him.

Notice how Paul says that we can be made right without the law, yet this was the old covenant. However he says that the new covenant - faith in Christ was written in the law and the prophets. So it’s not replacing the old testament, it’s just there is a way of being made right without keeping the requirements of the law.

 

[c659smith]

If you read my post you’ll see that I say the New Testament is based on the Old Testament. Not that it replaces it. What I am saying is that we are not saved by the law - the old covenant. How can we be? It would mean keeping every requirement of the law. it would mean animal sacrifices again. Christ says in that paragraph that we must be completely righteous. More so than the pharisees.

Yet Romans 3:9-19 says this.

*9 Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles,[a] are under the power of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,
“No one is righteous—
not even one.
11 No one is truly wise;
no one is seeking God.
12 All have turned away;
all have become useless.
No one does good,
not a single one.”
13 “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their tongues are filled with lies.”
“Snake venom drips from their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “They rush to commit murder.
16 Destruction and misery always follow them.
17 They don’t know where to find peace.”
18 “They have no fear of God at all.”

19 Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.*

So none of us are perfect yet Christ says that unless our righteousness is great then we can’t enter the kingdom of heaven. But then read what Paul continues to say in Romans 3:21-31.

*21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.*

So you see Christ has made it possible for us to place our faith in Him and be saved because we all fall short of God’s perfect standard. Notice how Christ said that He has come to fufil the Law. It was because of that that we can put our faith in Him.

Notice how Paul says that we can be made right without the law, yet this was the old covenant. However he says that the new covenant - faith in Christ was written in the law and the prophets. So it’s not replacing the old testament, it’s just there is a way of being made right without keeping the requirements of the law.

But I did quote you did I not?

The challenge you have is with the law and read out of context the bible

Their are two laws as was referenced in the old and new testament.

1st being the laws made by God for man such as the ten commandments, etc…

2nd being laws made by man for God such as circumcision, eating pork, animal sacrafices, etc…

It is the 2nd part of the law that Christ replaced laws made by man for God.

Clearly states with Sermon on the mount that those laws made by God for man in the old testament have not changed and if anything Jesus states, that if one word is changed or not followed than oops your in trouble as I had posted.

 

[c659smith]

If you read my post you’ll see that I say the New Testament is based on the Old Testament. Not that it replaces it. What I am saying is that we are not saved by the law - the old covenant. How can we be? It would mean keeping every requirement of the law. it would mean animal sacrifices again. Christ says in that paragraph that we must be completely righteous. More so than the pharisees.

Yet Romans 3:9-19 says this.

*9 Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles,[a] are under the power of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,
“No one is righteous—
not even one.
11 No one is truly wise;
no one is seeking God.
12 All have turned away;
all have become useless.
No one does good,
not a single one.”
13 “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their tongues are filled with lies.”
“Snake venom drips from their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “They rush to commit murder.
16 Destruction and misery always follow them.
17 They don’t know where to find peace.”
18 “They have no fear of God at all.”

19 Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.*

So none of us are perfect yet Christ says that unless our righteousness is great then we can’t enter the kingdom of heaven. But then read what Paul continues to say in Romans 3:21-31.

*21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.*

So you see Christ has made it possible for us to place our faith in Him and be saved because we all fall short of God’s perfect standard. Notice how Christ said that He has come to fufil the Law. It was because of that that we can put our faith in Him.

Notice how Paul says that we can be made right without the law, yet this was the old covenant. However he says that the new covenant - faith in Christ was written in the law and the prophets. So it’s not replacing the old testament, it’s just there is a way of being made right without keeping the requirements of the law.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

Again you take Paul out of context and the bible for that matter when not telling the whole story with you quoting the bible as to whom Paul is talking to, about what, or when it was said.

1. Was this said before he was accepted by the Apostles?
2. Was he talking about the laws of Man to God for surely he did not mean to disregard the ten commandments now did he in your mind?
3. Was Paul talking to the gentiles and calming their fears on circumcision and dietary changes in order to follow the laws made by men for God?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

Again you take Paul out of context and the bible for that matter when not telling the whole story with you quoting the bible as to whom Paul is talking to, about what, or when it was said.

1. Was this said before he was accepted by the Apostles?
2. Was he talking about the laws of Man to God for surely he did not mean to disregard the ten commandments now did he in your mind?
3. Was Paul talking to the gentiles and calming their fears on circumcision and dietary changes in order to follow the laws made by men for God?

Again and again, “Obeying the Law” has to do with obeying the 10 commandments in the way the Pharisees of his day interpreted them. It has nothing to do with acts of kindness or in obeying what Christ commands (See John 15). If you don’t act faithfully what good does it do one? None at all. This argument over words, and that is all it is, is really boring. I run into it all the time. Anti-Catholics accuse us of “works righteousness” as though that were a bad thing. Loving Godly action done in faithful obedience is not something to be condemn, as so many non-Catholics seem to be doing, but encouraged.

CDL

 

[Benu2007]

But I did quote you did I not?

The challenge you have is with the law and read out of context the bible

Their are two laws as was referenced in the old and new testament.

1st being the laws made by God for man such as the ten commandments, etc…

2nd being laws made by man for God such as circumcision, eating pork, animal sacrafices, etc…

It is the 2nd part of the law that Christ replaced laws made by man for God.

Clearly states with Sermon on the mount that those laws made by God for man in the old testament have not changed and if anything Jesus states, that if one word is changed or not followed than oops your in trouble as I had posted.

You didn’t quote me correctly nor did you fully read the scriptures I gave you.

First of all I said that the old covanant - being made right by the law, was replaced by the new covenant - being made right by faith in Christ. You quoted me as saying that the Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament. However I said futher on that the New Testament is based on the Old Testmant. The two go hand in hand.

Regarding the scriptures I gave you. If you’d read them correctly you would have noticed that Paul says the law is valid but all it does is condem us. This is true. Jesus says that we have to be fully righteous. If we want to get into Heaven by obeying the law then we have to not sin. Have you not sinned. If you have then how do you get to Heaven?

My main point is that when we walk by faith we are doing it in love. This produces kindness and righteousness etc. So we’re naturally obeying the Law.

What is the Paul is talking about? Well in Romans 13:8-10 Paul says this.

• 8 Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law. 9 For the commandments say, “You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet.”[a] These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”** 10 Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law.**

Paul is talking about the Law here. He is saying that it is the Commandments. This is the same Law he is talking about the whole time. The other law, including circumcision is part of this. The law is the Torah, not just the ten commandments. He says that when you have love you naturally fulfill the law. This is what I have being saying all along. Faith and love go hand in hand. Faith expressing itself in love as Paul says (Galations 5:6). Without love our faith is dead. Because true faith prodecues love. Without faith, love is just a nice thing. Even secular people can love and do great good deeds. However they’re, sadly, going to Hell becuase they do not look to Christ for their salvation.

Do you see what I’m saying?*

 

[Benu2007]

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

Again you take Paul out of context and the bible for that matter when not telling the whole story with you quoting the bible as to whom Paul is talking to, about what, or when it was said.

1. Was this said before he was accepted by the Apostles?
2. Was he talking about the laws of Man to God for surely he did not mean to disregard the ten commandments now did he in your mind?
3. Was Paul talking to the gentiles and calming their fears on circumcision and dietary changes in order to follow the laws made by men for God?

I do not take the Bible out of context here. If you read the verses Paul says this the same for the Jew and Gentile. So it doesn’t matter who he is talking to. Also since we have all sinned the law isn’t going to be very good in saving us is it. That’s why we need Christ. If you read verse 31 it says that we can’t just forget about the Law, but that when we truly have faith then we will natuarally obey the law. If you choose to live a life of sin you have clearly rejected God. You shouldn’t have to have lists of sin so you know what you shouldn’t do. What is right should be written on your heart, which is what faith does. For example the ten commandments say no adultery but do they say no fornication or pornography? Do they say no drunkardness or drug use? Do they say in swearing or dirty jokes? It says no murder but does that mean its all right to beat someone up?

We know that this stuff is all wrong, not because we read it in the bible but because we walk in faith expressing itself in love. You can make lists all day but there will always be sins missed out. If you live by faith you will know whats sin and whats not. Do you follow?

To answe your questions.

1. Paul couldn’t have cared less whether or not the apostles accepted him or not (Galations 2:6). This is because he was following Christs commision to him. Also he did not wait for the apostles to accept him. He started preaching right away and didn’t meet any of them until 3 years later. The only he met was Peter - and that was just to get to know him. Not to be ordained by him (Galations 1:18).
2. Paul said not to disregard these, but that you couldn’t be made right with Christ by the law. He was talking about the 10 commandments. I have answered this in my last post and at the start of this post.
3. Paul’s whole Good News was this. Although the law as codemmed us we have salvation in Christ who has made us perfect according to the law. People were scared because they could not keep the law - we’ve all sinned. However placing our faith in Christ makes us perfect.

 

[Benu2007]

Again and again, “Obeying the Law” has to do with obeying the 10 commandments in the way the Pharisees of his day interpreted them. It has nothing to do with acts of kindness or in obeying what Christ commands (See John 15). If you don’t act faithfully what good does it do one? None at all. This argument over words, and that is all it is, is really boring. I run into it all the time. Anti-Catholics accuse us of “works righteousness” as though that were a bad thing. Loving Godly action done in faithful obedience is not something to be condemn, as so many non-Catholics seem to be doing, but encouraged.

CDL

I have no problem with acts of righteousness. It’s just that some people believe that by do good works we are made right with God. Please correct me if I’m wrong here. But it seems to me that Catholics believe that doing good works or acts of righteousness reduces our time in purgatory. So the more we do the more righteous we become. That is where I have the problem.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I have no problem with acts of righteousness. It’s just that some people believe that by do good works we are made right with God. Please correct me if I’m wrong here. But it seems to me that Catholics believe that doing good works or acts of righteousness reduces our time in purgatory. So the more we do the more righteous we become. That is where I have the problem.

I don’t know of any connection to purgatory but you are exactly right that the Btble and the Church teach and always and everywhere believe that acts of righteousness draw us closer to God. We are being made holy if we act in obedience. Holiness is our destiny. We are indeed, contrary to what you insist upon, to “follow peace with all and holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” Heaven will indeed have “no unclean thing” in it. As the Apostles teach we are to live sinless lives. We are to be perfect even as our hevenly Father is perfect. I really do feel sorrow for you in your new paste together religion.

CDL

 

[Benu2007]

I don’t know of any connection to purgatory but you are exactly right that the Btble and the Church teach and always and everywhere believe that acts of righteousness draw us closer to God. We are being made holy if we act in obedience. Holiness is our destiny. We are indeed, contrary to what you insist upon, to “follow peace with all and holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” Heaven will indeed have “no unclean thing” in it. As the Apostles teach we are to live sinless lives. We are to be perfect even as our hevenly Father is perfect. I really do feel sorrow for you in your new paste together religion.

CDL

Are trying to say that you are perfect on your own. Don’t you see that we are made righteous through Christ. His sacrifice means that we, sinners, are made righteous and can enter Heaven. It is all because of Him that we can come before the Father.

Yes I know that as Christians we are to turn from all unrighteousness, and live a life that resembles Christ. But tell me how does doing that cleanse us from sin? Also no one is going to be perfect until we reach Heaven. Jesus says that we are going to be judged on every idle thing that comes out of our mouth.
Matthew 12:36
And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak.

This is impossible for anyone to keep there entire lives whether Christian or not. This is why we need Christ. Of course it is our heart that produces unrighteous stuff to come out of our mouthes. So it is important that we align our hearts with Christ. However it is Christ that makes up for our sin. This is my point. Too many people think that simply because they are good people they are going to Heaven. This is not the case. We all need Christ. Without Him we are doomed.