What are you protesting?

[Benu2007]

John Henry Cardinal Newman writes:

The truth itself is declared in one form or another in every part of Scripture. It is told us again and again, that to make sinful creatures holy was the great end which our Lord had in view in taking upon Him our nature, and thus none but the holy will be accepted for His sake at the last day. The whole history of redemption, the covenant of mercy in all its parts and provisions, attests the necessity of holiness in order to salvation; as indeed even our natural conscience bears witness also . . .

Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . We conclude that any man, whatever his habits, tastes, or manner of life, if once admitted into heaven, would be happy there . . . [But] here every man can do his own pleasure, but there he must do God’s pleasure . . . . . Let us alone! What have we to do with thee? is the sole thought and desire of unclean souls, even while they acknowledge His majesty. None but the holy can look upon the Holy One; without holiness no man can endure to see the Lord . . .

Heaven is not heaven, is not a place of happiness except to the holy . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, and pleasures at His right hand forevermore.

Newman explains (in effect) why purgatory (which he accepts elsewhere, even before his conversion to Catholicism in 1845) is a necessary and indeed, ultimately desirable process for all of us imperfect sinners to undergo, in order to properly approach God in His unfathomable majesty and holiness.
socrates58.blogspot.com/2008/02/biblical-evidence-for-purgatory.html

What don’t you understand about this. Christ is what makes us fully righteous. 1 John 1:9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. and 1 John 2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world. Christ has made us perfectly holy. Therefore we can come before God. We don’t need Purgatory. Are these scriptures lying when they say that Christ’s sacrifice saves us from all sin. Don’t you see? Christs sacrifice was to make us pure. Answer this please.

 

[Benu2007]

references to the Apocrypha in the margins of the Old and New Testaments of the King James version as printed in 1611

Matthew 6 7 And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.

Ecclesiasticus 7:14. Be not willing to make any manner of lie: for the custom thereof is not good. 7:15. Be not full of words in a multitude of ancients, and repeat not the word in thy prayer.

Matthew 23 37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not?

2Esdr 1:30 I gathered you together, as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings: but now, what shall I do unto you? I will cast you out from my face.31 When ye offer unto me, I will turn my face from you: for your solemn feastdays, your new moons, and your circumcisions, have I forsaken. 32 I sent unto you my servants the prophets, whom ye have taken and slain, and torn their bodies in pieces, whose blood I will require of your hands, saith the Lord.

Luke 14 13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, and the blind; 14 And thou shalt be blessed, because they have not wherewith to make thee recompense: for recompense shall be made thee at the resurrection of the just.

Tobias 4:7. Give alms out of thy substance, and turn not away thy face from any poor person: for so it shall come to pass that the face of the Lord shall not be turned from thee 8. According to thy ability be merciful.

Mat 6:7 Ecclesiasticus 7
Mat 23:37 2 Esdras 1
Mat 27:43 Wisdom 2
Luke 6:31 Tobit 4
Luke 14:13 Tobit 4
John 10:22 1 Maccabees
Rom 9:21 Wisdom 15
Rom 11:34 Wisdom 9
2 Cor 9:7 Ecclesiasticus 35
Heb 1:3 Wisdom 7
Heb 11:35 2 Maccabees 7

Dude. I showed you how 2 Maccabees went completely against scripture. You haven’t answered me how it fits. If it goes against scripture it cannot be inspired. They historical value (some of them) but they are not scripture as I showed you.

 

[Benu2007]

Maccabees was part of the Septuagint - the scriptures that the Jews used before the destruction of the Temple. Jesus and the first Christians used the Septuagint. Maccabees and the other deuterocanonical scriptures were part of the Christian Bible for over a thousand years until everyone’s favorite renegade German, Martin Luther, decided he didn’t like what it said and tossed it out. What is not valid is his lame reasoning for this action. Maccabees is every bit as inspired and valid as the rest of the Bible.

I showed you how it went against scripture. Answer me how it’s still valid if it does that.

 

[dosdog]

What don’t you understand about this. Christ is what makes us fully righteous. 1 John 1:9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. and 1 John 2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world. Christ has made us perfectly holy. Therefore we can come before God. We don’t need Purgatory. Are these scriptures lying when they say that Christ’s sacrifice saves us from all sin. Don’t you see? Christs sacrifice was to make us pure. Answer this please.

What Ever Happened to Mortal Sin?
Sadly, some individuals misconstrue fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one “mortal sin” which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, “I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven.” Think again.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.HTM

 

[Benu2007]

I desire, Jesus told Sister Faustina, that during these nine days you bring souls to the fount of My mercy, that they may draw therefrom strength and refreshment and whatever graces they need in the hardships of life and, especially, at the hour of death. On each day you will bring to My Heart a different group of souls, and you will immerse them in this ocean of My mercy, and I will bring all these souls into the house of My Father … On each day you will beg My Father, on the strength of My bitter Passion, for graces for these souls. (1209)

First Day: Souls of sinners and all mankind

Second Day: Souls of priests and religious - Today bring to Me the souls of priests and religious, and immerse them in My unfathomable mercy. It was they who gave Me the strength to endure My bitter Passion. Through them, as through channels, My mercy flows out upon mankind.

Third Day: Devout and faithful souls

Fourth Day: Souls of pagans

Fifth Day: Souls of heretics and schismatics - Today bring to Me the souls of heretics and schismatics, and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. During My bitter Passion they tore at My Body and Heart; that is, My Church. As they return to unity with the Church, My wounds heal, and in this way they alleviate My Passion.

Sixth Day: Meek and humble souls

Seventh Day: Souls who especialy venerate and glorify the mercy of Jesus

Eighth Day: Souls in Purgatory - Today bring to Me the souls who are in the prison of Purgatory, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice

Ninth Day: Lukewarm souls
divinemercysunday.com/vision.htm

This is your tradition and it goes against scripture. Just because someone says that Jesus told them something doesn’t mean you go straight out and believe them. The Bible, as I have show does not support Purgatory, this cannot be real. You should examine the scriptures first before you just believe anything.

 

[dosdog]

This is your tradition and it goes against scripture. Just because someone says that Jesus told them something doesn’t mean you go straight out and believe them. The Bible, as I have show does not support Purgatory, this cannot be real. You should examine the scriptures first before you just believe anything.

You Loose-She’s a Saint - you are a gnat

 

[Benu2007]

What Ever Happened to Mortal Sin?
Sadly, some individuals misconstrue fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one “mortal sin” which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, “I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven.” Think again.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.HTM

What about mortal sin? The bible doesn’t speak of mortal sins like you have. You give no scripture to back this up. If we ask God to forgive us then He will. Unless of course we don’t forgive others or continue to live a life of sin. But if we truly have faith then we won’t do that. Back up your statements with scripture.

1 John 1:9 says ALL sin. Yes ALL sin. Are you trying to argue with that?

What about this story?

Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.
4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Jesus forgave her. But I thought you said He wouldn’t do that because she had commited a mortal sin?

 

[Benu2007]

What Ever Happened to Mortal Sin?
Sadly, some individuals misconstrue fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one “mortal sin” which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, “I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven.” Think again.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.HTM

What about mortal sin? The bible doesn’t speak of mortal sins like you have. You give no scripture to back this up. If we ask God to forgive us then He will. Unless of course we don’t forgive others or continue to live a life of sin. But if we truly have faith then we won’t do that. Back up your statements with scripture.

1 John 1:9 says ALL sin. Yes ALL sin. Are you trying to argue with that?

What about this story?

Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.
4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Jesus forgave her. But I thought you said He wouldn’t do that because she had commited a mortal sin?

 

[Benu2007]

What Ever Happened to Mortal Sin?
Sadly, some individuals misconstrue fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one “mortal sin” which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, “I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven.” Think again.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.HTM

What about mortal sin? The bible doesn’t speak of mortal sins like you have. You give no scripture to back this up. If we ask God to forgive us then He will. Unless of course we don’t forgive others or continue to live a life of sin. But if we truly have faith then we won’t do that. Back up your statements with scripture.

1 John 1:9 says ALL sin. Yes ALL sin. Are you trying to argue with that?

What about this story?

Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.
4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Jesus forgave her. But I thought you said He wouldn’t do that because she had commited a mortal sin?

 

[dosdog]

The Bible tells us we must have faith in order to be saved (Hebrews 11:6). Yet is faith nothing more than believing and trusting? Searching the Scriptures, we see faith also involves assent to God’s truth (1 Thessalonians 2:13), obedience to Him (Romans 1:5, 16:26), and it must be working in love (Galatians 5:6). These points appeared to be missed by the reformers, yet they are just as crucial as believing and trusting. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3) should be heeded by all it’s certainly an attention grabber.

Paul speaks of faith as a life-long process, never as a one-time experience (Philippians 2:12). He never assumes he has nothing to worry about. If he did, his words in (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) would be nonsensical. He reiterates the same point again in his second letter to Corinth (2 Corinthians 13:5). He takes nothing for granted, yet all would agree if anyone was “born again” it certainly was Paul. Our Lord and Savior spoke of the same thing by “remaining in Him” (John 15:1-11).

Paul tells us our faith is living and can go through many stages. It never stays permanently fixed after a single conversion experience no matter how genuine or sincere. Our faith can be shipwrecked (1 Timothy 1:19), departed from (1 Timothy 4:1), disowned (1 Timothy 5:8) wandered from (1 Timothy 6:10), and missed (1 Timothy 6:21). Christians do not have a “waiver” that exempts them from these verses.

Do our works mean anything? According to Jesus they do (Matthew 25:31-46). The people rewarded and punished are done so by their actions. And our thoughts (Matthew 15:18-20) and words (James 3:6-12) are accountable as well. These verses are just as much part of the Bible as Romans 10:8-13 and John 3:3-5.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FAWORKS.HTM

 

[Benu2007]

You Loose-She’s a Saint - you are a gnat

You know people made her a saint. Not God. What she say’s goes against scripture. Either scripture is wrong or she is. Which one? You haven’t given any scripture that backs up what you have said. You have tried using tradition and what mankind have said throughout the ages. But these have been shown to be wrong when compared to scripture.

 

[dosdog]

You know people made her a saint. Not God. What she say’s goes against scripture. Either scripture is wrong or she is. Which one? You haven’t given any scripture that backs up what you have said. You have tried using tradition and what mankind have said throughout the ages. But these have been shown to be wrong when compared to scripture.

Biblical Evidence for Purgatory: 25 Bible Passages

socrates58.blogspot.com/2008/02/biblical-evidence-for-purgatory.html

I would like to continue to swat this gnat but I have to get ready for Mass
Visit our Multimedia site
for the Daily Mass!
themass.org/

 

[Benu2007]

The Bible tells us we must have faith in order to be saved (Hebrews 11:6). Yet is faith nothing more than believing and trusting? Searching the Scriptures, we see faith also involves assent to God’s truth (1 Thessalonians 2:13), obedience to Him (Romans 1:5, 16:26), and it must be working in love (Galatians 5:6). These points appeared to be missed by the reformers, yet they are just as crucial as believing and trusting. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3) should be heeded by all it’s certainly an attention grabber.

Paul speaks of faith as a life-long process, never as a one-time experience (Philippians 2:12). He never assumes he has nothing to worry about. If he did, his words in (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) would be nonsensical. He reiterates the same point again in his second letter to Corinth (2 Corinthians 13:5). He takes nothing for granted, yet all would agree if anyone was “born again” it certainly was Paul. Our Lord and Savior spoke of the same thing by “remaining in Him” (John 15:1-11).

Paul tells us our faith is living and can go through many stages. It never stays permanently fixed after a single conversion experience no matter how genuine or sincere. Our faith can be shipwrecked (1 Timothy 1:19), departed from (1 Timothy 4:1), disowned (1 Timothy 5:8) wandered from (1 Timothy 6:10), and missed (1 Timothy 6:21). Christians do not have a “waiver” that exempts them from these verses.

Do our works mean anything? According to Jesus they do (Matthew 25:31-46). The people rewarded and punished are done so by their actions. And our thoughts (Matthew 15:18-20) and words (James 3:6-12) are accountable as well. These verses are just as much part of the Bible as Romans 10:8-13 and John 3:3-5.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FAWORKS.HTM

I couldn’t agree more. If we truly have faith then we will naturally show it by the way we live. So the way we live is the fruit that is produced by our faith in Christ. But its still our faith that saves us. What we do just shows whether or not we have faith. Heaven is a gift from God. It is not something we have earned.

 

[Benu2007]

Biblical Evidence for Purgatory: 25 Bible Passages

socrates58.blogspot.com/2008/02/biblical-evidence-for-purgatory.html

I would like to continue to swat this gnat but I have to get ready for Mass
Visit our Multimedia site
for the Daily Mass!
themass.org/

If those verses are the ones that you gave me before then I have already proved to you that they do not show purgatory. Just because you have 25 verses doesn’t mean they prove anything. You haven’t answered any of the points I made in my posts. So I don’t see how you have been “swatting this gnat.” I answered everything you said and you never really answered with any substance.

 

[Benu2007]

Sure. Baptism is a normative rather than an absolute necessity, to quote Catholic Answer’s essay on the subject. It is possible to have a baptism of desire. But it is better to receive the sacrament to remove all possibility of doubt. As it is said in 1 Peter, chapter 3:
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
See also Acts 2:38:
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And Acts 22:16:
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

And Romans 6:3-4
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Hopefully, the scriptures I provided you above will give you some food for thought regarding this.

dosdog posted a ton of great Biblical sources to show that Purgatory is very much in line with Christian teachings. The existence of Purgatory does not take away from Christ’s sacrifice. All those in Purgatory will make it to Heaven. It is simply a state of cleansing to make us flawed humans perfect for the presence of God.

Baptism is important but it is no good if we don’t have faith. Otherwise it is just us getting wet. It simbolises that we have died to this world and have been raised a new in Christ. But it is not essecential to eternal life as my passaged showed.

Dosdog gave some verses but if you read my posts then you will see that they offer no evidence for Purgatory. They were just verses. You need look up what people actually say than just look at the fact that they have a big list of verses.

 

[Brady_W]

“do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith without works is barren?” James 2:20

ha ha, that has to be one of my favorite verses in the bible.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

What don’t you understand about this. Christ is what makes us fully righteous. 1 John 1:9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. and 1 John 2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world. Christ has made us perfectly holy. Therefore we can come before God. We don’t need Purgatory. Are these scriptures lying when they say that Christ’s sacrifice saves us from all sin. Don’t you see? Christs sacrifice was to make us pure. Answer this please.

Since Christ’s sacrifice is to make us pure then let Him make your life pure. Stop “kicking against the pricks” (Acts 9, KJV) and come home to God and His Church.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I showed you how it went against scripture. Answer me how it’s still valid if it does that.

Your ideas aren’t scripture. Only Scripture is scripture. No sane person would choose to follow your ideas over Scripture. Leave your foolish and destructive ways lest they lead you to a real hell and come home to God and His Church.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

This is your tradition and it goes against scripture. Just because someone says that Jesus told them something doesn’t mean you go straight out and believe them. The Bible, as I have show does not support Purgatory, this cannot be real. You should examine the scriptures first before you just believe anything.

You have not shown any such thing. All you have shown is that you have created a new fangled religion in your image which does in fact teach falsely. Leave those damning ideas and come home to God and His Church.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

What about mortal sin? The bible doesn’t speak of mortal sins like you have. You give no scripture to back this up. If we ask God to forgive us then He will. Unless of course we don’t forgive others or continue to live a life of sin. But if we truly have faith then we won’t do that. Back up your statements with scripture.

1 John 1:9 says ALL sin. Yes ALL sin. Are you trying to argue with that?

What about this story?

Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.
4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Jesus forgave her. But I thought you said He wouldn’t do that because she had commited a mortal sin?

Satan can and does quote scripture. All you have proved is that your ideas, once again, are not Scripture. There are sins that can only be cleansed by fire and some not in this life. I know your heart is still hardened against God and His Church and His Scripture but I plead with you leave your false religion and come home to God and His Church. I pray that someday your hard heart will be softened by the Holy Spirit.

CDL