What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

[Gab123]

this thread is about LGBT persons and how LGBT persons can flourish and find home in the Church.

Why not just do with your struggles what Jesus tells us to do? the Bible has plenty to say on this. .
As far as relationships, there are plenty of options for you. And if you can’t live without sex, then find yourself a woman and let it blossom into children who will love you more than anyone. But do realize that then you will discover a much heavier cross and responsibility than just lamenting that you don’t have a romantic relationship with another man. You’ll find that having a family and raising children entails a much heavier cross of responsibility than merely yearning for a romantic relationship. Furthermore, as followers of Christ the greater love to strive for is Agape…

 

[Thorolfr]

catholic1seeks:

this thread is about LGBT persons and how LGBT persons can flourish and find home in the Church.

And if you can’t live without sex, then find yourself a woman and let it blossom into children who will love you more than anyone.

Wow! I wonder why millions of gay men never thought of that before?

 

[Gab123]

it helps them to see something

Blind people can have sex. All it takes is touch.

Wow! I wonder why millions of gay men never thought of that before?

Lust for male bodies?

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

it helps them to see something

Blind people can have sex. All it takes is touch.

I don’t think that touch is the only thing required for arousal. Humans and other primates are species that can be aroused not only when having sex, but also by just thinking about sex. So, even a blind man can be thinking about things that contribute to his arousal. There’s also the “ick factor.” I suspect that most straight men would experience an “ick factor” even at the thought of having sex with another man. So it shouldn’t be surprising that a lot of gay men experience the same thing at the thought of having sex with a woman.

 

[Gab123]

I don’t think

The problem is that you’re not thinking spiritually. One way to get rid of the same-sexual attraction is to associate negative thoughts about it. For example, the fact that the urge and attraction is to perform an abomination in the eyes of God is a good foundation to build on, much the same way that someone who has sexual attraction to children should associate a shame disgust by the mere fact that it offends God. this is called Fear of the Lord; that is, the fear of offending almighty God who is so good and deserving of our love. We all have ttractions to do something evil; if it is evil we uproot it from our hearts whatever it takes with the grace of God. You have an urge to steal? Know and love Jesus to the point that you HATE the thought of offending Him and you will never steal again. Have an attraction and addiction to pornography? Do likewise. Addictions, attractions, obsessions, desires, yearnings for things that are evil are things that we need to uprootfrom our life.

Then begin to love the things God loves, and you will find yourself being attracted to them. A follower of Christ, especially a Catholic has no excuse. Jesus showed us the way. It is a battle we must fight. Thus Jesus said, if an eye causes you to sin, pluck it out…

__

 

[Thorolfr]

Know and love Jesus to the point that you HATE the thought of offending Him and you will never steal again. Have an attraction and addiction to pornography? Do likewise. Addictions, attractions, obsessions, desires, yearnings for things that are evil are things that we need to uprootfrom our life.

Very simplistic, again. There is considerable evidence now from twin and adoption studies that many addictive and compulsive behaviors have a genetic component to them, including things like compulsive gambling, alcoholism and risky sexual behavior. No amount of prayer is going to make the desire for these things go completely away in those people who have the genes for them. There are more behaviors, both good and bad ones, that are influenced by genes than what most people realize.

As for gay people, I’m sure that millions of them have tried to “pray away the gay”, but it just doesn’t work.

 

[Fauken]

One way to get rid of the same-sexual attraction is to associate negative thoughts about it. For example, the fact that the urge and attraction is to perform an abomination in the eyes of God is a good foundation to build on, much the same way that someone who has sexual attraction to children should associate a shame disgust by the mere fact that it offends God.

Me thinks you are immensely oversimplyfing it.

 

[Gab123]

Me thinks you are immensely oversimplyfing it.

The more one loves God, the more one begins to hate sin. It doesn’t happen overnight; but it is a grace God gives those who seek Him sincerely. One will look back at the things one was doing 20 years ago and cringe…

No amount of prayer is going to make the desire for these things go completely away

The more one fills his mind with pornography, bad movies, bad music, bad influences, the more one is attracted and becomes addicted; the more one fills the mind with good influences it begins to crowd out the bad; thus it is so beneficial to read the lives of e saints, people from all walks of life who became sanctified, Did you not know that only saints can enter heaven? the time to purge and purify is now…

 

[Fauken]

The more one loves God, the more one begins to hate sin. It doesn’t happen overnight; but it is a grace God gives those who seek Him sincerely. One will look back at the things one was doing 20 years ago and cringe…

And what if that SSA person isn’t doing anything? If they know their attractions are wrong and don’t act on them? I know someone who tried what you said and it did a fat load of nothing. The negative thoughts about it only festered into denial and suppression, not healing. It’s not that simple.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Mutilating your body is clearly an action, and clearly a sin.

Respect for bodily integrity

2297 Kidnapping and hostage taking bring on a reign of terror; by means of threats they subject their victims to intolerable pressures. They are morally wrong. Terrorism threatens, wounds, and kills indiscriminately; it is gravely against justice and charity. Torture which uses physical or moral violence to extract confessions, punish the guilty, frighten opponents, or satisfy hatred is contrary to respect for the person and for human dignity. Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.

There is room for therapeutic use of medication, hormones, and surgery if is offers relief for someone living with gender dysphoria.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

Perhaps the solution would come after much prayer and devotion as opposed the opinions of a conflicted group?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

There is room for therapeutic use of medication, hormones, and surgery if is offers relief for someone living with gender dysphoria.

I would like to see the studies about that, with careful attention to the way we are understanding “relief”. The Greek root behind “therapy” means to “heal”, not to “make one feel better”. But I’m open to investigating the matter further.

 

[giuseppe96]

A person with same sex attractions can answer whatever God is calling them to do for His Church. As long as they persist in celibacy and abandon their carnal desires.

 

[Thorolfr]

The Greek root behind “therapy” means to “heal”, not to “make one feel better”.

If someone who is suffering from depression uses antidepressants, the goal is to make them feel better and not be depressed or as depressed as what they were. So, although antidepressants might not completely heal someone of their depression so that they will no longer suffer from depression without medication, can’t we say that antidepressants are “therapeutic” for some people?

Merriam-Webster defines “therapeutic” as follows: “of or relating to the treatment of disease or disorders by remedial agents or methods.”

 

[Mtdobbs]

As an act of solidarity with our homosexual brothers and sisters, all married couples should practice celibacy. We sure like to tell them (same sex attracted individuals) to be celibate, but how many married couples could give up sexual relations voluntarily? We need more people leading by example.

 

[Fauken]

I think you mean to say continent. Celibacy means to not marry. Continence means to refrain from sex.

 

[Gab123]

Instead of trying to change up the person’s attraction let’s figure out how to sublimate the attraction.

Having a disordered attraction is not sinful; however there are plenty of cases where people who had SSA have managed to resolve the disordered attraction and pursue a normal heterosexual relationship with the opposite sex and go on to be happily married with children. Unless you are saying they are all lying.

It. Doesn’t. Work.

That’s what the gay lobby wants everyone to believe. For a man to have a male body, fully equipped to procreate children, designed to complement a female body, yet have a sexual attraction to another man is the result of psychological conditioning, and was listed as such by the American Psychological Association right up until 1973 when it was suddenly reclassified, not because of medical evidence, the same year political pressure passed abortion legislation based on the argument that claimed science couldn’t determine if an unborn child is a person.

But the catechism of the Catholic Church describes homosexual tendencies as a psychological condition. Psychological disorders can be treated, thus the reason why the gay lobby is bent on outlawing it, and Hollywood is good at indoctrinating people…

You want them to waste their mental and emotional energy to conform to how you want them to be

I’m just telling you the truth. The attraction itself is not sinful, it’s just disordered. There are ways to help one out; however these days it is very politically incorrect to even mention it. Much like one cannot address a man who severs his reproductive organs and implants breasts and dresses as a woman as a “he”, without political repercussions, much less even bring up the subject of psychological disorder, or believe in traditional marriage without being called a homophobe bigot.

you expect them to be stronger than you and more perfect than you before you welcome them. That’s bullshit.

Again, we’re all sinners, and the Church is a hospital for sinners. I’m just telling you the truth…

put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.” Ephesians. 4:21-24

 

[Gab123]

As an act of solidarity with our homosexual brothers and sisters, all married couples should practice celibacy

Instead, why not encourage people with SSA to discover that the opposite sex is a better complement all around? There are plenty of stories of people with SSA who have reordered their attractions and found a spouse of the opposite sex and had a family…

 

[Gab123]

And what if that SSA person isn’t doing anything? If they know their attractions are wrong and don’t act on them? I know someone who tried what you said and it did a fat load of nothing.

Having a sinful attraction is not sinful. But to dwell on it and define one’s self based on an attraction seems like the wrong way to go about it. We must all work on getting rid of the bad attractions. The goal is to kill the old self.

So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming. You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds. Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him. In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile,c circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized,d slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us. col. 3:5-11

 

[Gab123]

it did a fat load of nothing

This happy couple begs to differ