What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

The part about them not loving somebody.

 

[Edward_H]

So lights are off at your parish M-F at 5pm, and closed on Saturdays. No one visiting hospitals or nursing homes after 5

Hmmm. amazing

 

[DarkLight]

Surprisingly, pretty close. Or at least if you want to do any of those things, you have to attend the trainings, which are held at a specific time during the week, and if you can’t make those trainings you can’t participate in the associated ministries.

 

[phil19034]

The Catechism is not necessarily a pastoral guide, so I’m more on the fence. Nevertheless, the typical Catholic does not understand the philosophical terminology.

And that’s why we have pastoral & national Catechisms based on the universal Catechism that are supposed to help us teach. But unfortunately, not many go into this.

 

[Sean77]

How do you think the church can better welcome LGBT persons or foster a place for them in the life of the church?

I think that part of the problem we often have is that we too readily identify our position in Christ by our sins. Identifying oneself as an LGBT Christian, or an Alcoholic Christian, or perhaps a Lustful Christian, or Greedy Christian, or Prideful Christian seems to put the cart before the horse. It is no accident that Christ’s earthly ministry was with baptism and the message to repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Christ’s first command to us, and this command still remains, is to repent. Repentance does not celebrate or justify one’s sin. It acknowledges the sinful nature of the thought, word, or deed, and pleads with God for forgiveness and change of heart. The best possible thing that the Church can do for the person struggling with same-sex attraction, or any other sin for that matter, is to preach the need for repentance, and this is the cool part, to declare the forgiveness we have through faith in Christ. If we don’t repent, we cannot live out a vocation, because the word vocation means to be called. We are not called by Christ to remain in sin, we are called to repent. As Paul says to us after laying out a long and exhaustive list of sinful conditions, “And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

 

[godisgood77]

Eucharistic ministers, readers, leaders, parish council, choir, ministries for the poor, prayer ministries, etc…same as anyone else.

 

[Sarcelle]

A gay person who is chaste and going to Church would like for once to be considered a bona fide member of the Church.

What is wrong with that?

Not all gay people are working for the homosexual agenda. It’s not like they’re all members of the Borg collective with one hive mind. What’s problematic with treating them as individuals? They are individuals after all, believe it or not.

 

[Thorolfr]

Exactly. I wouldn’t know and couldn’t care less who around me in the pews has “SSA” unless they tell me or otherwise display it somehow. Yet no others tempted toward a particular sexual sin are so loud, so demanding, so petulant. Have"SSA?" Keep it to yourself and carry your cross. Just like everybody else.

Most of these others you talk about who are not as “loud” and “demanding” don’t experience the same kind of discrimination, abuse and violence that LGBT people do. Let’s take masturbation, for example. Growing up, I don’t remember any kids being bullied because they masturbated. And other kids can often spot LGBT youth even if they don’t reveal their sexual orientation.

And how many kids who masturbate get kicked out of their homes? A survey of homeless shelters nationwide from 2011 to 2012 found that up to 40% of homeless young people were LGBT. They are often forced to leave home because their families don’t accept them. And this is still happening even now.

And how many people who masturbate get fired from their jobs? During the McCarthy era, thousand of gay people were fired from their jobs in the Federal government.

And how many people who masturbate get assaulted for doing this? Only a few years ago, two gay men in a town near where I live were assaulted and beaten on the street after being taunted for being gay. One of the two died from his injuries.

It is because of these kinds of things that LGBT people finally decided to organize and not take this kind of abuse any more and to become much more loud and demanding than before.

 

[graciew]

I watched it again.
I looked up her age,she is 40 and she looks much younger!
It is hard to understand how friendship has to be explained… This lady is talking about a need that goes well beyond any orientation. She is uncovering the need there is for friendship and community.
When she says that after school everybody goes away to different places ,that is something so difficult to assume and understand in other cultures.
Super interesting. Would have loved to have her share a cup of coffee and talk about so many things that affect our own children sometimes.
I know you may not understand a thing of what I am saying but she described something so natural to other cultures as the importance of friendship that it is hard to dissent in any way.
Except that we are more tribal in the sense of groups of friends we wouldn t change for anything and have been there for a lifetime.
Thanks for sharing. !

 

[Thorolfr]

I think that part of the problem we often have is that we too readily identify our position in Christ by our sins. Identifying oneself as an LGBT Christian, or an Alcoholic Christian, or perhaps a Lustful Christian, or Greedy Christian, or Prideful Christian seems to put the cart before the horse. It is no accident that Christ’s earthly ministry was with baptism and the message to repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Christ’s first command to us, and this command still remains, is to repent.

Someone’s sexual orientation is not the same as any of these other things you’ve listed. I don’t know how straight people feel, but for me, my sexual orientation is a pretty fundamental and core part of who I am. And it’s not just about sex. It’s also about love. The people that I’ve fallen in love with and had the deepest feelings towards have all been other men. When I was a teenager, all the people I daydreamed about and had a crush on were other boys. I’ve never had the same kinds of feelings about a girl or a woman.

And it’s kind of insulting to compare the kinds of feelings I’ve had toward the people I love with lust or greed or the longing for alcohol.

 

[Edward_H]

I bet.

Then you take your faith into the ordinary world in various social or charitable groips, living your faith, spreading God’s charity, praying as you work there.

Then you bring the concerns of that charity to the Mass, adding those concerns and petitions to the paten on the altar, spiritually.

And that leaves no room for complaining or whining.

 

[DarkLight]

And that leaves no room for complaining or whining.

Whose definition of complaining or whining are we using? Who decides what is a legitimate need and what is “whining”?

Frankly, that’s part of why I left protestantism. Give, give, give, give more, and at the end of the day when you have nothing left to give because no one will give to you when you need it, too bad. Other people’s needs are real - yours are just whining.

The Christian life is more than just running around doing stuff, even good stuff. Even a pagan can work at a soup kitchen. Humans are not meant to go it alone; there’s a reason few are called to be hermits. We need real relationships in our lives with people who will support and encourage us, and many LGBT people find that the church denies them those relationships.

 

[Edward_H]

Anyone who says “I can’t find a way to love” is a whiner.

We can’t give without a lively interior life fueled by the Sacraments and prayer and sacrifice.

 

[DarkLight]

I guarantee you no one here has said anything of the sort.

What we are saying is the development of that interior life we’re getting is pretty much “you can go to Mass and do work and maybe read some books?” and that’s about it. We’re free to want to help from afar, but don’t get too close to anyone, don’t expect to be supported in return, don’t expect to be treated like a full member of the church. And definitely don’t expect to get any sort of spiritual guidance beyond “do work and don’t have sex.”

Very, very few people can manage solely on their own interior life. Even the cloistered nuns live in community and support each other.

 

[graciew]

Very, very few people can manage solely on their own interior life. Even the cloistered nuns live in community and support each other

You have three words differentiated in English: aloneness,solitude and loneliness.
This struck me while reading the series of Henri Nouen years ago.
Here I found the passage:

"All human beings are alone. No other person will completely feel like we do, think like we do, act like we do. Each of us is unique, and our aloneness is the other side of our uniqueness. The question is whether we let our aloneness become loneliness or whether we allow it to lead us into solitude. Loneliness is painful; solitude is peaceful. Loneliness makes us cling to others in desperation; solitude allows us to respect others in their uniqueness and create community.

Letting our aloneness grow into solitude and not into loneliness is a lifelong struggle. It requires conscious choices about whom to be with, what to study, how to pray, and when to ask for counsel. But wise choices will help us to find the solitude where our hearts can grow in love"

 

[Bruised_Reed]

And that leaves no room for complaining or whining.

Anyone who says “I can’t find a way to love” is a whiner.

And you’re whining too, just in an aggressive manner so it’s not as easily recognizable as whining.

 

[Gab123]

The evidence is overwhelming that LGBT Catholics feel unwelcome in their churches.

Again, love the sinner, hate the sin; God hates the sin of homosexuality, just like He hates the sin of adultery or any other sin. If a man struggles with sins of impurity the Church is here to help via the sacraments, just like it helps any person struggling with sin. The problem is when one is self-centered instead of God-centered that the struggles become very very hard; Impossibly hard. If we really want to change we need to go to confession, and start filling one’s mind with the things of God, and falling in love with the purpose of our existence, not the urges of our body. As for not feeling welcome, I think there are people in the Church who are trying to normalize something that is an abomination, thus we have to be on guard against false compassion. I personally think it is a demonic deception for men and women to identify one’s self as part of a LGBTQ group as if it’s some sort of special club that needs to be welcomed and celebrated…

 

[Gab123]

they could stop referring to it as being disordered.

Sexuality has a purpose; any misuse is a disorder…

Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man … Therefore, God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. - The Bible

 

[Mtdobbs]

A heterosexual has the benefit of being able to look at a member of the opposite sex, be attracted to, and feel good about being attracted to them.

Do you think a homosexual, whom the church teaches do not desire the feelings they feel, can feel that same goodness when looking at a member of the sex that they are attracted to. Or do you think there would be guilt and shame involved knowing what the Church teaches. I’m not implying the Church is wrong here, just pointing out the vast chasm in difficulty between the 2.

The OP isn’t talking about people who are trying to be self centred or abusive towards the teachings of the Church. It was a discussion about vocation possibilities and ideas for people who identify as “LGBT”.

If a person , who is same sex attracted, went to 10 churches and received no support but then went to an “LGBT” group and felt tremendous support for their struggle, is it so shocking that they would feel a support and safety in referring to themselves as LGBT? Would referring to themselves as part of a group that was the only one that ever paid attention to them wrong?

I am Catholic and have never felt the same “lack-of-welcome” that I know people with same sex attractions have felt. If I went my whole life receiving no welcome from the Catholic Church… How hard would it be to remain Catholic? I’m not saying I wouldn’t be Catholic but that it would be an incredible challenge.

Just because there are people in the church who are trying to change the teachings of the church to fit their own agenda, doesn’t mean we can lump everybody into that category. There are many who are trying to be faithful to Her teachings.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

This struck me while reading the series of Henri Nouen years ago.
Here I found the passage:

" All human beings are alone. No other person will completely feel like we do, think like we do, act like we do. Each of us is unique, and our aloneness is the other side of our uniqueness. The question is whether we let our aloneness become loneliness or whether we allow it to lead us into solitude. Loneliness is painful; solitude is peaceful. Loneliness makes us cling to others in desperation; solitude allows us to respect others in their uniqueness and create community.

Letting our aloneness grow into solitude and not into loneliness is a lifelong struggle. It requires conscious choices about whom to be with, what to study, how to pray, and when to ask for counsel. But wise choices will help us to find the solitude where our hearts can grow in love"

Interestingly, there are reasonably solid reports that Nouwen was same-sex attracted, which may add depth to his witness about solitude, for others with same-sex attraction.