What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

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I apologize if you feel that I have misrepresented you on this subject. I had no intentions of insulting you in any way. However, I have to bow down before God’s word on the subject, and his word is quite clear on issues of sexual immorality, whether it involves same-sex attraction or heterosexual attraction. The fact is that we are all sinners. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and none of us are justified in and of ourselves. I am equally condemned under the law. However, I have been saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. And through baptism, and through his body and blood I am called to repent, just as you are. We are God’s creatures and as such we don’t get the choice to change God’s law or the gospel to justify ourselves. It just doesn’t work that way. I appreciate the courage you have in providing such personal testimony about your struggle. Will keep you in my prayers.
 
catholic1seeks said:
@Imdaman

Again I recommend Eve Tushnet.

As for Mothers Day Masses, there were at the Catholic school I attended K-8. Mothers were invited to come. Granted, the entire liturgy may not have been mother themed throughout, but the idea is the same.
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Yes I will try to watch her this week.

Yeah again just a normal Mass with a blessing for Mom’s do not make this a Mother’s Day Mass. It is also at a school Mass where the Mother’s Children are. Everyone is free to go to Mass and is blessed when doing such. I don’t have a huge problem with specific blessings for certain groups of people. This blessings are to help these individuals stay strong in Christ and give them the grace to carry their cross.
I’m afraid that a blessing for a group of LGBT would make them feel like something is wrong with them. How would a blessing be worded could either alienate the recipient or the rest of the community. It could certainly work if done properly and everyone was made clear what was going on.
 
A lively interior life. I like that.

Can you elaborate on how to achieve this?
 
catholic1seeks said:
@Imdaman

The way you commented on some of my recommendations proves that there’s a bigger perspective missing. And that perspective is that (1) there are certain challenges often faced by LGBT Catholics as a group – that is, gay Catholics have unique challenges and experiences in a Catholic context, and (2) Much more needs to be done so that LGBT persons feel welcome in Catholic Churches.

Or do you think that LGBT persons readily go to Catholic churches? Do you see a list of gay persons entering the Catholic Church? I don’t.
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I have no doubt that the challenges you face are unique and and a major burden. I also agree that much work needs to done to welcome LGBT persons into the Church. There is also a responsibility placed upon you as well as everyone that one needs to conform to the community. All of us are treasured resources to the Church and all must “to a certain degree” bend our wills to the larger community.

It is also incumbent on us as a community to be more open and welcoming to - for lack of a better word - “outsiders”. Something that most parishes are terrible at. Catholic communities can be very large and unless people make a move to be more helpful with different ministries they can be completed missed.

Was there something specific in my that was missing from my perspective. maybe I can elaborate a bit more.
 
Exactly. Plus they’re reminded of it whenever they read books/watch movies etc that they’re gay (because there are always love interests there).

People here tend to forget that homosexuality is the romantic and sexual attraction to the same sex. Romantic. It’s disappointing to see people thinking as if gay people are constantly talking about their sexual preferences. No, they’re talking about relationships too!

It’s especially even more upsetting when they fall for someone and knowing that they can’t do anything about it. Some empathy would be good.

It’s almost silly to compare homosexuality with like…heterosexual lust.
 
DarkLight said:
I guarantee you no one here has said anything of the sort.

What we are saying is the development of that interior life we’re getting is pretty much “you can go to Mass and do work and maybe read some books?” and that’s about it. We’re free to want to help from afar, but don’t get too close to anyone, don’t expect to be supported in return, don’t expect to be treated like a full member of the church. And definitely don’t expect to get any sort of spiritual guidance beyond “do work and don’t have sex.”

Very, very few people can manage solely on their own interior life. Even the cloistered nuns live in community and support each other.
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A bit exaggerated I think. What is different about any of this with regards to anyone else? As a straight married man what do I get that is out of the ordinary here. I’m told to go to mass do work and maybe read some books what extra do I receive. I have the very same spiritual directors as you. If one is not to my liking I try to find one that is more in tuned with my issues. How close do you think I get to my fellow parishioners? I have a friendship with a couple but nothing really close.
The knights of Columbus is great for single Men. They don’t care if you are Gay. Why would they? I’m told to do work and don’t sin!
 
It’s a friendship with God, more contant conversation - short prayers, short chatter with the 3 Persons of the Trinity, Our Lady, and all saints in heaven we want to draw into our ordinary life matters…this joy, that struggle, this piece of work, this worry.

The best way to do this is “with more telephone poles”…more approaches to God during each day…each pole is an approach to God…what are the poles? Morning offering? Morning prayer, perhaps more daily Mass, maybe the Angelus at noon (1 minute prayer), maybe parts of the Rosary, maybe Scripture (5 minutes) later on, short exam at night (1-2m).

These may seem “mechanical” but they are “acts of the will”…and what you find is that as we do this…our “other time” tends to get more influenced by the Presence of God by our deliberate/willful approaches to God.

These deliberate approaches to God tend to “bleed over” into our work, our interactions with others, our driving time.

The goal is eventually nearly continuous conversation with God…“praying always” as St Paul tells us…rejoicing always.

So that the “telephone line” doesn’t sag!!

You’ll find yourself “referring” more and more matters to God and to Our Lady.
 
Mtdobbs said:
A heterosexual has the benefit of being able to look at a member of the opposite sex, be attracted to, and feel good about being attracted to them.

Do you think a homosexual, whom the church teaches do not desire the feelings they feel, can feel that same goodness when looking at a member of the sex that they are attracted to. Or do you think there would be guilt and shame involved knowing what the Church teaches.
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The guilt and shame is natural if we are indulging in something we know is morally sinful. A guilty conscience is a guilty conscience. Sexual attraction is good only if it leads to its proper end. The problem is when people begin to rationalize sin. Here are some examples of people who have to personally struggle with their sexuality:
  1. The first is a married man that feels a sexual attraction to a woman that is not his wife. He does not desire the feelings, but has them nonetheless. What should that man do with that feeling? The attraction is natural yet it is immoral.
  2. The second man is unmarried. At work he has a strong sexual attraction to a married woman and she reciprocates that attraction to him. The attraction is natural. What should they do with those feelings?
  3. The third man has a natural sexual attraction to women but decides to take a vow of celibacy and become a priest. What should he do with his natural sexual drive?
  4. The fourth man is sexually attracted to women, but he doesn’t want to get married. What should he do with that natural attraction?
  5. The fifth man feels sexually attracted to children. He doesn’t want to have those feelings yet he has them nonetheless. What should he do?
  6. The sixth man is sexually attracted to a beautiful woman and marries her in the Church. After 1 year she is in a horrible accident that leaves her disfigured and the man is no longer sexually attracted to her. What should he do with his sexual attraction to other women?
  7. The 7th man is married and has children; he serves in the military and is deployed overseas for a year. While away he meets a beautiful young woman who is very attracted to him and he starts to feel a burning attraction to her. What should he do with that feeling?
  8. The 8th man became addicted to pornography. His sexual drive, intended for marriage and the procreation of children, has become disordered and enslaved by an attraction to female nudity. He knows it is sinful and does not desire the attraction, yet the attraction has him enslaved. What should he do with that attraction?
  9. The 9th man goes to the beach and sees scantily clad beautiful bodies and is tempted to gaze. He feels like taking pleasure out of it, yet he knows these impure thoughts are not good. What should he do?
  10. The 10th man is attracted to women, yet he knows that he doesn’t have a vocation for marriage and raising children, but feels called to religious life and missionary work overseas. What should he do with his sexual drive?
Why should the Church treat people with same-sexual attraction any differently than all these other men struggling with their sexuality?
 
Perhaps the best post I’ve ever read here at CAF.

Marvelous work.

Thank you.
 
You might believe that same-sex relations, even those between committed partners, are a sin, but that does not mean that they are comparable to greed or alcoholism.
 
  1. This married man should go back to his wife. At least he does have a wife and could still have sexual relations with her.
  2. It might take this man a little while to get over his feelings for this married woman, but he can still find someone else to fall in love with and marry.
  3. This man did take a vow of celibacy which was his choice. Gay people didn’t choose to be gay.
  4. He could change his mind and decide to get married.
  5. That is a tough one if he’s only sexually attracted to children. In his case, he should know that a sexual relationship with a child is not consensual since children can’t give consent. It would also be likely to cause lasting psychological harm to the child. And lastly, he’d go to prison if he got caught.
  6. This man did make a vow to his wife which he chose to do. In this case, he should honor the commitment that he freely made.
  7. As hard as it might be, he should wait until he goes home. Lucky for him that he has a wife to go home to.
  8. As hard as it might be, he could try to avoid pornography. At least he can look forward to getting married.
  9. He could leave the beach so that he isn’t tempted any more.
  10. But he could make a choice to get married. If he truly feels that he is called to the religious life, that is a choice that he can freely make. Again, gay people didn’t choose to be gay.
Almost all the people in your examples can make choices that would allow them to end up getting married or they can go back to the spouse they already have.
 
This doesn’t reflect the topic that the OP has put in but I will answer all 10.
  1. A married man… hes married and that’s his vocation. A vocation homosexuals cant have. Next.
  2. A strong sexual attraction to a woman… again… though the woman is married, another woman could easily come along and he could marry her. Marriage vocation allowed.
  3. Homosexuals cant be priests. Vocation denied.
  4. Doesn’t want to get married but could easily date and pray that God changes his heart. He might want to get married one day. Vocation allowed
  5. Sexually attracted to children… I don’t think this even warrants a response.
  6. His vocation is marriage and is now bothered by her physical features? That is your comparison to the struggles homosexuals face?
  7. Again, a vocation of marriage. You are making this easy.
  8. Is it possible he could overcome his addiction and still date and marry…Of course he could! but homosexuals cant.
  9. I’m not sure what this one has to do with any vocation
  10. Man is choosing a vocation.
Did you read my whole post? the part where I wrote
Mtdobbs said:
The OP isn’t talking about people who are trying to be self centred or abusive towards the teachings of the Church. It was a discussion about vocation possibilities and ideas for people who identify as “LGBT”.
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Discussing vocations and any ideas we might have, while staying within Church teaching

Why should the Church treat people with same sex attraction any different than all of these men…
Why should the Church treat wounded people more compassionately and lovingly, especially those who are told they cant enter into this vocation or that vocation? Sounds like common sense really.

Most people have a list of vocations they can choose from.
A person who has deep rooted homosexual tendencies has this list reduced.
I’m not saying I reject what the church teaches but it boggles my mind a bit that you are confused as to why we shouldn’t treat them differently? As in treating them with more patience? More respect? To look at their crosses they are asked to carry and weep? To help them carry theirs? To be Simon of Cyrene to them?

It is to those who have the most need of us that we ought to show our love more especially.
St. Francis de Sales

We have been called to heal wounds, to unite what has fallen away, and to bring home those who have lost their way. Many who seem to us to be children of the Devil will still become Christ’s disciples.
St. Francis of Assisi

If you judge people, you have no time to love them.
Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta

“I know now that true charity consists in bearing all our neighbors’ defects–not being surprised at their weakness, but edified at their smallest virtues.”
St. Thérèse de Lisieux
 
What about living in the world, but in community? A group of roommates, essentially, who have vowed to “help each other get to heaven?” Praying together every day, serving in their free time, etc?

And, honestly, more opportunities for fellowship for single, working people within the parish.
 
@Thorolfr

This is perhaps ISSUE #1: Identifying same-sex attraction/homosexual orientation merely as a temptation or vice. Homosexual attraction can become a vice, just like heterosexual attraction can.

You do well to note that, often, for gay people, there sexuality is on par with heterosexual people — only all those feelings, desires, etc. are directed towards people of the same sex.
 
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Just ignore @Edward_H. I still don’t know why he chooses to participate in this thread. He’s calling me and others a “whiner” here and in many other ways.

He’s diminishing the concerns and struggles of his fellow Christians.

He knows he’s not contributing anything productive to the thread, because I and many others have already told him that.
 
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jtavington said:
What about living in the world, but in community? A group of roommates, essentially, who have vowed to “help each other get to heaven?” Praying together every day, serving in their free time, etc?
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I would add to this that it would be helpful if straight people were just as willing to be part of such a community as gay people. I don’t see any reason why 3-10 people living together should all be gay. That makes it seem like living with gay people is important to them – and it shouldn’t be.

But straight people tend not to leave their comfort zones very much, which further isolates gay folks who are trying to be chaste.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Homosexual attraction can become a vice, just like heterosexual attraction can.
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I wouldn’t say attraction could ever be a vice. Homosexual SEX can be a vice, just as heterosexual sex can be. But there is a distinction, in that homosexual sex will never fail to manifest a vice, where as heterosexual sex can fail to be a vice, if it is in the context of a loving marriage.
 
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Please show the precise text where I called you a whiner. Preposterous. The continuous self-focus, and turning every comment back on oneself is too much.
 
The concerns of some people are clearly overblown.

We need to be more concerned with people who are seriously ill, poor.

The “first world problems” of “we’re not appreciated” pale in comparison to people with Stage VI cancers.
 
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