What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

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I wasn’t being technical.

I meant the attraction could lead to vice.

However, by vice I mean habit. Sex outside marriage may always be objectively wrong, but I’m referring to the (false) idea that homosexual orientation/attraction is just a temptation. But as others have pointed out, it’s more than just attraction to perform sex acts.
 
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QwertyGirl said:
Find a different way to describe it. Language in the catechism can be adjusted, changed, and modified. It doesn’t have to change the teaching, it changes the way individuals are addressed.
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Keep in mind that it is not the individual that is addressed as “disordered.” The individual is described as a child of God, loved and cherished by God.

It is the inclination that is out of order, no more nor less than any disordered inclination that has the possibility of leading to sin, which is the falling short of the goodness of God.

I agree that language is important. Can you offer any ideas for improvements to the language used in the Catechism, without sacrificing appropriate precision?
 
catholic1seeks said:
However, by vice I mean habit. Sex outside marriage may always be objectively wrong, but I’m referring to the (false) idea that homosexual orientation/attraction is just a temptation. But as others have pointed out, it’s more than just attraction to perform sex acts.
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I wholeheartedly agree.
 
Crocus said:
It is the inclination that is out of order, no more nor less than any disordered inclination that has the possibility of leading to sin, which is the falling short of the goodness of God.
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The Catechism does not use this language to describe other inclinations toward sin. If it did, then we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation!
 
Thorolfr said:
Almost all the people in your examples can make choices that would allow them to end up getting married or they can go back to the spouse they already have.
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All of them had sinful attractions that they had to choose against. Likewise, a man who is sexually attracted to another man instead of his wife, can choose to reject those attractions and stay true to his wife, just like the married man who is attracted to someone other than his wife can make a choice. The core problem is that people who want to identify as “gay” have a self-centered life. A Catholic is called to have a God-centered life. People are free to choose God or to reject God. The Church is simply teaching people how to go to heaven and not be condemned. It’s all about choosing to be chaste or choosing not to be chaste. God gives us the grace to choose chastity if we really want to. The problem is that some people don’t want to be chase.
 
So, could we stop playing the “whose cross is bigger” game?

I have been in and out of the Catholic Church before, for the very reason that I have often felt that I cannot flourish as a gay (SSA) individual in the Church. Plenty of replies on this thread are only reinforcing this concern of mine.
But back to the point of this thread.

I think perhaps the foundational thing our churches can do is simply listen. Be more proactive about listening to the struggles and concerns of REAL gay people. Don’t just shoot us down as “being whiny.” Don’t just shove a Catechism quote in our faces. But rather, really get to know real flesh-and-blood individuals. Form relationships.

So what is the way forward? I hope we can agree that simply listening to our fellow parishioners is the best first step. I think that this thread so far has made that clear. The need to listen is essential. But it’s also common sense: The church won’t know how to care for its struggling members, if in fact her members don’t open up about their struggles.

Maybe the parish priest could meet with groups of LGBT parishioners and their supporters every so often.

Any other ideas?
 
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You are correct! The culture of today’s “wannabe’s” does not see the need to meet the requirements. (what’s a requirement or a rule, or a discipline). So they think all of that should be dumped in favor of their “wanna”. A same sex attraction as it is referred to may or may not be a hindrance. To excercise it, display, attract others, etc. is not compatible with Catholic teaching. There is no quick forum answer for the “wannabe” - consult with your conscience and find a Confessor to hear you is my advice. Obedience would be utmost in pursuing a privilege to help in the Church.
 
“catholic1seeks said:
for gay people, there sexuality is on par with heterosexual people — only all those feelings, desires, etc. are directed towards people of the same sex.
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Yes, the Church calls this a disorder. No baby is born sexually attracted to males just like. No baby is born a pedophile. These things are developed in puberty and are the result of psychological and environmental influences. I would say that most people who identify as gay are the result of cultural influence. The reason the Bible describes homosexual activity as an abomination is because it goes against nature itself…
 
You’re mixing philosophy and biology.

Whether one is born with SSA (“gay”) or not has no effect in the theological understanding of “disorder.”

The biological origin of homosexuality does NOT have anything to do with this thread. Usually, people who argue against a biological origin often are trying to downplay the experiences of the individual.
 
Gab123 said:
Yes, the Church calls this a disorder. No baby is born sexually attracted to males just like. No baby is born a pedophile. These things are developed in puberty and are the result of psychological and environmental influences. I would say that most people who identify as gay are the result of cultural influence. The reason the Bible describes homosexual activity as an abomination is because it goes against nature itself…
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I respect your opinion, but I disagree. No babies are sexually attracted to ANYONE, at all. When I was 10 or 11, I began to have a craving to look at naked men. I had never seen pornography, and I had a huge crush on a girl in my class. I think there could have been other cultural factors that played a role, but I don’t think anyone can confidently and scientifically assert that no one is gay simply because of factors before birth. Nor does the Church say such a thing. Just as proneness to migraines, or autism, plausibly sometimes occurs because of events prior to birth, homosexuality could.

Something occurring because of the genes, or prior to birth, does not make it good, however.
 
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catholic1seeks said:
So what is the way forward? I hope we can agree that simply listening to our fellow parishioners is the best first step
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Realize that there is a concerted agenda-driven movement outside and inside the Church to do to the Catholic Church what they accomplished in the Anglican Churc— namely, to change the teaching on the sinfulness of homosexual behavior and to now bless gay marriage, accept openly homosexual “pastors” and even encourage transsexuals to join the clergy. The process is known as gradualism, and they know that in order to change things they have to take very small steps; first by trying to change people’s perceptions in the pews. The problem is that the Catholic Church is a divine Institution and Jesus Christ will never allow His Church to teach that an abomination is something to celebrate, encourage or bless. People with homosexual tendencies just like anybody else with any disordered tendencies should come to church to be transformed, to unmask, uproot and remove everything in one’s heart that separates us from God. Homosexuality is a disorder which, under the vice of lust, can lead to the most depraved unnatural behavior. thus if you are dealing with homosexual tendencies it is so important to avoid the pitfalls that homosexuals often fall into…
 
Again, you are minimizing being gay to “tendency.”

It’s not just a temptation to have sex with someone.

Until people in the church realize that homosexual persons need more than a “cure” for their sexual attractions, well, the church will just never get it.

I recommend Eve Tushnet.

For anyone who is open to trying to understand what this thread is at all about, and what is meant by vocations for LGBT people, then please be familiar with her or check out some of this video. Even the first 10 mins or so…

 
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Prodigal_Son said:
No babies are sexually attracted to ANYONE, at all. When I was 10 or 11, I began to have a craving to look at naked men
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Exactly. These things are often formed at youth. Now the question is, what were naked men doing around a 10 year old boy, and what effect it has on the psyche of a young boy, especially when there are so many other outside influences affectin one’s emotions. Studies have shown a link between homosexuality and an overbearing father figure. It’s a psychological condition, no doubt heavily influenced by the world, especially now when the abominations are on display and celebrated as wholesome normalcy. it’s Satan and his slaves. But the Church offers freedom through Jesus Christ, it was Christ who spoke about sin as slavery…
 
Gab123 said:
what were naked men doing around a 10 year old boy
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Ummmm? You CLEARLY took that the wrong way!!!

I had never seen a naked man. I wanted to. I looked at pictures of athletes in magazines, and felt deeply guilty for it. That guilt was deeply toxic to me.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Until people in the church realize that homosexual persons need more than a “cure” for their sexual attractions, well, the church will just never get it.
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Until people realize that having homosexual tendencies is a psychological condition, they will never understand that celebrating the condition and calling it normal is not helping anyone…
 
Straw man.

Has nothing to do with this thread.

Why are you participating on this thread?
 
Exactly. Which is why I wish people would take my advise and look up Eve Tushnet or watch that video! So much would be cleared up…

(Even though I’m pretty sure I’ve been clear, from the original post onward, that I’m not advocating theological change. And I’ve tried to make myself clear what I’m asking. The OP says:
Beyond refraining from extra-marital sex and same-sex sexual relationships, how do you currently perceive the vocation for single gay people?
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Prodigal_Son said:
I looked at pictures of athletes in magazines, and felt deeply guilty for it. That guilt was deeply toxic to me.
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Yes, a guilty conscience is a red flag that what one is doing is wrong. Enough said. Our conscience is like our five senses, can detect when something is bad.”. We can see, we can hear, we can touch, we can taste, and we can smell.

Just as your sight can tell if something is out of order and your hearing can tell when something is out of harmony, your sense of smell can also detective bad smell something rotten; your sense of taste can enjoy a delicious meal, or recoil in disgust after tasting something rancid. Likewise, our conscience feels guilt and remorse when we commit sin. Like poison, sin has to be spit out of your system (repented and confessed), if not it hurts the soul much like the poison hurts the body. If one doesn’t spit out the poison right away it can kill the body; likewise if one rationalizes the guilt away, it kills the conscience, which ultimately destroys the soul. Thus St. John Bosco always taught the young men to have custody over their eyes and thoughts and to frequent confession, lest stone poison starts affecting one’s conscience…
 
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Prodigal_Son said:
I would add to this that it would be helpful if straight people were just as willing to be part of such a community as gay people. I don’t see any reason why 3-10 people living together should all be gay. That makes it seem like living with gay people is important to them – and it shouldn’t be.
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I’ve heard a lot of Catholics say gay people shouldn’t have roommates or live in community, because they might become attracted to their roommate and fall into sin.
 
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