What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

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catholic1seeks said:
Ah, the usual “MY pre-conceived judgment is more relevant than YOUR personal, concrete experience .”
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(name removed by moderator) has a point. It’s a matter of fact, no matter how anyone feels about them, that Pride parades are a celebration of open-air degeneracy - and that’s putting it rather mildly. And besides, aren’t you yourself judging him for not seeing things the way you do?
 
It’s amazing how those people try to shame us into submission by making “judgment” sound like a dirty word.
 
I see nothing wrong with that.

And I’m sure you’ve noticed that instead of talking about how they can serve the Church, they’ve decided to defend degeneracy in this thread. Shame.
 
I think your “they” consists of one person in a thread with a number of people talking about dealing with SSA - and several of us complaining that all we’ve gotten is warnings about degeneracy.
 
No, not just a warning. It’s a call. SSA or no SSA, as Catholics if we want to see clearly what our vocation is, let alone live it out well, we must make it a point to reject degeneracy. In that regard, nobody is special.
 
The point is we’re not moving past that.

It’s like telling a straight man that the best way to strengthen his marriage is to not cheat on his wife. I mean, yes, in order to strengthen his marriage he must reject any extramarital sexuality. But it’s not terribly helpful if no one is willing to give you anything past that because they’re too busy talking about the damage that adultery does. Especially if you’re already, you know, not cheating on your wife.
 
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DarkLight said:
But it’s not terribly helpful if no one is willing to give you anything past that because they’re too busy talking about the damage that adultery does.
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A lot of us honestly don’t care what our fellow Catholics are or aren’t doing behind their door, as long as it’s not interfering with our own life (like if you are cheating with my spouse, then it interferes with my life). I’m not the morals police for my parish and I’m sure there are quite a few people doing all kinds of crazy stuff. For a few years I was doing crazy stuff too while showing up from time to time in the pew looking like normal ol’ Jane Pewsitter.

Unfortunately, we’re not the ones who are talking because we don’t have anything to say one way or the other. We’re simply not bothered by other people’s behavior or think it is their private business. I would no more start a thread discussing my thoughts on LGBT people and the Church than i would start one on African-Americans in the Church, recovering drug addicts in the Church, or old retired Army generals in the Church, because I am not in any of those categories and it’s not for me to say.

So you get more hot air from the people who like to mind everybody else’s business for them on the basis that this is some big issue for the whole parish to discuss.
 
catholic1seeks wasn’t talking about his own experience. I’m the one who who said that I went to a pride parade in 1982 and oddly enough, even though I’m not Catholic, I was invited by some new Catholic friends to march in the parade with a contingent from the gay Catholic organization Dignity. This was before Dignity got banned from meeting in Catholic churches, and I attended a mass held for members of Dignity at a local parish. I don’t even remember all the things you mention about pride parades. I just remember not feeling so alone any more.
 
That’s fair.

I think if you ask me personally…the hardest part is it often seems at my age, relationships between Catholic women are pretty much entirely focused on family and children. As a childless woman, I’m kind of an outsider in a way where I’m really no longer in the young adult category, but the only other single women in the parish are those who are elderly and widowed.

I’ve also dealt with a certain amount of…people are personally uncomfortable. A lot of people are ok with gay people in general, but they don’t want to be friends with one, because the idea that someone of the same sex might be attracted to them is scary.
 
Did you leave out that one or both is lesbian? Because that would make your post relevant to the thread. Would a lesbian or bisexual woman be able to get close to you so that you would describe her as one of your absolute best friends? Would she have to affirm that she is chaste on the regular, and assure you she was in no way attracted to your or any other woman?
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Did you leave out that one or both is lesbian? Because that would make your post relevant to the thread. Would a lesbian or bisexual woman be able to get close to you so that you would describe her as one of your absolute best friends? Would she have to affirm that she is chaste on the regular, and assure you she was in no way attracted to your or any other woman?
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That sounded wierd…sort of like an AA sponsor for lesbian Catholics…
 
Also, that was a rather dismissive thing to say to someone expressing the challenges of connecting with other women, Catholics.

“I feel like an outsider, not having much in common with other women.”

“I have tons of friends! And I’m straight, white, a Christian, a married woman with kids, too. Bonus!”

Because all those things have social currency.

ETA: I rarely lunch with the ladies from church any more. My two closest friends from that group died and the others are…challenging. When you know someone is manipulating the convo, talking about their kids, grandkids, etc. and I’m sitting there listening, enjoying what they are sharing and then one turns and says to me, “We’re (really?) sorry. We left you out of the conversation…How are your cats?” Because, wow. I didn’t feel left out until you made it obvious I was. And cats are not the equivalent of children. Criminy.
 
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I think it was a response to my saying that it’s often hard as a single woman, because most women my age are married with children and socialize largely in mommy groups. I think the point was that it is possible to connect married and single women together.

On a general note, I think that we move around a lot more now as adults brings some of this to the fore. I don’t have any friends from before college. I have really one relationship that I’ve maintained from college (the young lady is now in the military).
 
In my experience it often goes along with a more general idea that those with LGBT are also necessarily sex addicts.
 
I don’t think I’m adding anything new but hopefully helping anyway since this is a long thread.
  1. I would not oppose the Priesthood or religious life for LGBT people.
  2. Those that do have an attraction to the opposite sex could consider marriage.
  3. Committed friendships (between two people) do not seem wise to me - at least not having the Church bless them. However if people think it would help and not be a source of temptation I would not rule out seeking them and would not oppose a group.
  4. A Josephite marriage with a LGBT person of the opposite sex may be an option also. It may be possible to have a deep affection etc without attraction and if it were to grow so much the better.
 
Elf01 said:
Committed friendships (between two people) do not seem wise to me - at least not having the Church bless them. However if people think it would help and not be a source of temptation I would not rule out seeking them and would not oppose a group.
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Honestly I think regular friendships would help a lot. I think our society in general has a tendency to treat your romantic partner as your source of entire social support and the only one you have a real emotional connection to.
 
Speaking as one who has done just what you said, it’s because often your romantic partner is the most trustworthy and reliable person who knows you best. I have many friends who are fine from a social perspective, but there are very few people who are understanding, reliable, and not preoccupied with their own spouses, children and immediate family. Reliability and honestly, just having the time is a huge part of the picture. You’re lucky to find 2 or 3 of those people in your life and if one happens to be your spouse, that’s fantastic.

In wanting to make friends, one has to set the bar realistically for what a friend can and can’t do given where they are in their life or you will be often disappointed. A friend might be able to meet you for an hour for coffee, but isn’t going to want to be your go-to person for listening to the regular ups and downs of your life, that sort of thing.
 
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