What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

[Thorolfr]

The words “gay” and “homosexual” are defined right now in most dictionaries by the desires or attractions that someone has. Of course, you can go around and make up your own definitions, and maybe someday people will accept and start to use your definitions, but until then, don’t expect anyone to understand what you mean.

 

[Gab123]

The words “gay” and “homosexual” are defined right now in most dictionaries by the desires or attractions that someone has. Of course, you can go around and make up your own definitions, and maybe someday people will accept and start to use your definitions, but until then, don’t expect anyone to understand what you mean.

Yes; today, murder is also defined as “reproductive rights” in some dictionaries. Look up the definition of homosexual prior to 1973 you ge a different definition. Again, the world has its ways; and plenty of people who swallow the lies. The latest lie ha stop do with gender theory; plenty of dictionaries about that too…

 

[theCardinalbird]

Happy cake day!

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Nobody is born a pedophile, just like you were not born gay.

You don’t know that with certainty. Science doesn’t.

All sin is a disorder; the problem is that today people want to mask the truth and pretend that there is no such thing as a perversion.

And this is the same point you have repeatedly derailed this thread with. Do you have anything to offer regarding the OP’s question? Besides don’t sin. It’s not surprising if you don’t; most people didn’t really have anything new to offer, including me.

If not battled, an addiction which starts in one’s youth becomes and obsession and a way of life. Deep rooted which only Christ can cut down. The problem is that Christ will not cut it down unless you want Him to.

I don’t think you know what you are talking about. Can you talk about LGBT persons without talking about sin? I think a lot of people automatically think and about sin even when there is no sin there. As others have noted, there is this idea that LGBT persons only think about sex, or all are addicted to sex. All you have is a hammer and you treat anything having to do with LGBT persons or issues as a nail.

You may not think you are hostile but because of that you come across as hostile. You can’t antagonize and evangelize at the same time.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Yes, obviously.

This is a dumb statement.

Pedophilia is defined as an attraction to children but there are people who have sexually abused children who were not attracted to them, but just wanted to hurt them; they aren’t pedophiles.

Question: For what reason does the Church advise that one should have custody of the eyes and custody of the mind and imagination?

The problem is that the homosexual lifestyle is a man-made tradition, and now, even people in the Church are beginning to rationalize it. Thus Jesus said:

“And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.”

This doesn’t little to do with

do I become a lesbian if I had sex with another woman?

So:

Bruised_Reed:

do I become a lesbian if I had sex with another woman?

A one time encounter in my life makes me a lesbian? A woman who accepted money for sex years ago is a prostitute? Two different ideas since one is how one’s brain is wired and one is an activity that may or many not be a choice. I think these are bad examples.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

This thread got heavily derailed…

 

[una_ecclesia]

I stepped back when it was taking too much of my precious time to respond. Don’t know if is worth it for v me to continue. I do think people have provided some possible starting points for the questions (establishing strong communities, promoting friendships, etc.) but some posters keep rehashing the same tired points that aren’t even up for debate… and others keep responding back to him.

 

[Gab123]

You may not think you are hostile but because of that you come across as hostile. You can’t antagonize and evangelize at the same time.

Who said I’m trying to evangelize? I’m simply responding to statements people are making that are simply not true.

Do you have anything to offer regarding the OP’s question?

Yes. This thread has over 1,000 posts and I gave plenty of suggestions.

You don’t know that with certainty. Science doesn’t.

Again, there is no such thing as a pedophile baby, or a transexual baby boy wanting to be a girl baby, or a baby designed to want to have sex with the same sex. As for science, that the same crowd claims science can’t determine when life begins, in order to rationalize abortion.

Can you talk about LGBT persons without talking about sin?

One has to separate the person from the LGBT movement. The problem are the lies being perpetuated now even among Catholics as if they were foregone conclusions.

All you have is a hammer and you treat anything having to do with LGBT persons or issues as a nail.

I’m not hammering people who are struggling or enslaved by sin, I’m hammering the lie that is being perpetuated by the LGBT movement, now even in Catholic circles. If you can’t see the difference it means you’ve already been infected. You don’t want to be a ding-a-ling Catholic who cluelessly stands there with a stupid grin showing false compassion toward a movement that is perverting your children, brainwashing your family, raping your mind and impregnating your intellect with the rotten seeds of untruths.

But again; I’m simply responding to statements that are falling under the radar of the average Catholic who have been conditioned to accept lies as foregone conclusions. You are welcome to skip my posts or mute me in the forum. But before you do, tell me, what are your ideas for vocations in the Church for the transexuals, pansexuals, and those questioning their gender and sexuality, and for men who find the male body sexually attractive? The OP wants to know! As he put it, “sanctity” is not enough; apparently the Church needs to come up with a better plan in order for them choose to stay in the Church.

-I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.-

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Who said I’m trying to evangelize? I’m simply responding to statements people are making that are simply not true.

Even if one isn’t actively evangelizing one should be aware of our witness. I don’t see a lot if good news in your posts. I think you are putting out a lot if ideas that the Church doesn’t preach.

Yes. This thread has over 1,000 posts and I gave plenty of suggestions.

Besides don’t sin, don’t be gay, and don’t talk about being gay what was that? I’ve read every post and you pretty much said the same thing over and over in different ways.

Again, there is no such thing as a pedophile baby, or a transexual baby boy wanting to be a girl baby, or a baby designed

You can’t really say that worth certainty. We doubt know at what point in our brain development that this would be hard wired. Kids as young as 3 and 4 or their parents recall thoughts and feelings that would develop as they matured and puberty hit. Since babies are non verbal and we wouldn’t get clues about being transgender or Ada until later it’s impossible to even study their brains. We don’t know a lot and we probably won’t live to know.

One has to separate the person from the LGBT movement.

No it doesn’t. The church doesn’t teach this. This in one of the things I noted above.

I’m not hammering people who are struggling or enslaved by sin, I’m hammering the lie

You are using hammer differently than I am. Is English your first language? Just wondering as I used a common idiom.

If you can’t see the difference it means you’ve already been infected.

You don’t want to be a ding-a-ling Catholic who cluelessly stands there with a stupid grin showing false compassion

You aren’t winning me over here. Just saying. I already know this is what you and your ilk think of me and others; it’s just disappointing to hear it.

You are welcome to skip my posts

I know…

or mute me

can’t…

But before you do, tell me, what are your ideas for vocations

As I suspected, you didn’t read what I wrote.

most people didn’t really have anything new to offer, including me

See. Anything I had considered of were just thoughts from Eve Tushnet festooned with Catholic utopian ideals making them impossible.

 

[theCardinalbird]

happy cake day

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Whoa! Thank you, Cahdinal Boid!

 

[DarkLight]

I’m going to reiterate what I said upthread.

The trouble with most of what LGBT people get is that it’s like telling a married man that the best way to grow in his faith is to resist the evil temptation to cheat on his wife.

It’s entirely true that he shouldn’t cheat on his wife. But I think most married Catholic men would find being told that to be rather an insult than useful advice.

 

[Gab123]

I think you are putting out a lot if ideas that the Church doesn’t preach.

Like what?

Besides don’t sin, don’t be gay, and don’t talk about being gay what was that?

Again, it is not simply about following rules and commandments, but rather, about being transformed by grace. Following commandments out of fear of being damned is not the same as following the commandments out of love for God. And If one insists on identifying with the worldly LGBT labels and trying to force fit them inside the Church is to miss the very point of the gospel. Re-read my original posts. I’m not attacking anyone personally, rather I am targeting the movement that brainwashes people and spreads lies.

But I asked you a question. The OP asked:what are your ideas for vocation in the Church for transexuals, pansexual, men who are sexually turned on by male bodies, and people questioning their sexual orientation?

You aren’t winning me over here. Just saying. I already know this is what you and your ilk think of me and others; it’s just disappointing to hear it.

It is not my duty to win anybody over, but to simply speak the truth in charity; I’m simply responding to statements being made and telling you the truth of what the Church and the Bible teaches, for the sake of those who read this thread in the future who are being hoodwinked by the rainbow mob . Again, separate the sinner from the sin.

 

[Gab123]

The trouble with most of what LGBT people get is that it’s like telling a married man that the best way to grow in his faith is to resist the evil temptation to cheat on his wife.

It’s entirely true that he shouldn’t cheat on his wife. But I think most married Catholic men would find being told that to be rather an insult than useful advice.

This observation gets to the crux of the problem with the mentality of many Catholics and non-Catholics. Faith is not about following commandments and rules, but about finding Jesus Christ and allowing Hom]im to transform one’s life; making Him Lord of one’s life, and understanding what that means.

LGBT people

As for homosexuality, heterosexuality, transvestites, transexuals, bisexuals, pansexuals, and people questioning their sexuality, etc. the key is to first stop identifying and defining human beings as “LGBT people” as it only furthers the agenda of the spirit behind the movement.

Gender theory is the fruit of the rainbow movement and it’s quest to re-define marriage, re-define family, re-define the individual, and now, to re-define gender identity itself. It’s all about causing division and chaos is the natural order…

Here is a fellow that has the short answer

 

[Gab123]

some posters keep rehashing the same tired points that aren’t even up for debate

I think the problem is that people are discussing the issue from the standpoint of self-identity and trying to somehow fit that identity into a vocation while following commandments one would rather really not follow, rather than approaching the issue from what Jesus tells us to do, namely, to kill off our identity.

As the New Testament es-Latin’s, we are not to base our lives on pointless thinking, but to “change the former way of life that was part of the person you once were, corrupted by deceitful desires and instead, renew the thinking in your mind by the Spirit and clothe yourself with the new person created according to God’s image in justice and true holiness.”

 

[MaryClare]

It seems an LGBT’s vocation and responsibility is to avoid sin just like anyone who is not. I don’t see why someone who is attracted to the same sex cannot live a spiritually fulfilling life if they abstain from such temptations. Its like any other sin really. People who are tempted to steal or gamble are also sinning if they do, but that doesn’t mean that these people cannot lead fulfilling holy lives with spiritual direction, discernment and prayer of the gifts god has given to them.

 

[catholic1seeks]

The more I read what you say the more it sounds like that is ultimately what you want, only not discussed in this thread…

No matter what I say, I cannot convince you. You are naturally suspicious of me — probably of all gay people in general.

Again, you aren’t answering this thread’s question, so best to not keep up the dialogue with ya!

I have been a (generally) active member of CAF since 2008 – so about 10 years – and since I was in the 8th grade. I have always been honest, and always a seeking Catholic, as I have said. To say I’m some imposter trying to infest and change Catholicism is outrageous. You gladly pick up on statements that “SEEM” otherwise and yet conveniently skip all the times I emphasize that this thread is about RESPECTING CURRENT Church teaching – NOT TO MENTION WHAT THIS THREAD IS ACTUALLY ABOUT. See FIRST post for reference:

Beyond refraining from extra-marital sex and same-sex sexual relationships, how do you currently perceive the vocation for single gay people? How do you think the church can better welcome LGBT persons or foster a place for them in the life of the church?

Answering this question requires an honest and sensitive attempt to understand the struggles, challenges, and experiences of LGBT people, especially in the Church.

 

[catholic1seeks]

At this point, it’s like beating a dead horse. Some on here don’t care about what we’re actually asking/talking about.

 

[DarkLight]

I’d read down a bit more in the thread.

A lot of the problem many of us experience is that there’s not a lot of space or structure within the modern church (or wider society for that matter, at least in the u.s.) for lay singles. A lot of life revolves around the nuclear family. I know for me, much of the sense of isolation has little to do with my sexuality per se, and most to do with being single at an age when most women have young children and tend to primarily spend time around mommy groups. A lot of it’s also just a general weakening of relationships outside of marriage. It gets very lonely in a world where everyone else is going home to their spouse and children.

This can get combined with a definite fear of sexuality that makes it harder to form relationships. I’ve definitely experienced stereotyping that lay singles past a certain age are all selfish, or there’s some sort of character defect that keeps them from marrying. As a woman, I’ve also met people who think single lay women are all influenced by feminism, or that we’re doing a wrong to single men who want a catholic wife. More commonly, if any LGBT stuff about us is scary because people find the idea that someone of the same sex might find them attractive is scary (even if it’s not acted on in any way).

 

[MaryClare]

As a single 39 year old woman, I relate to what you are saying more than you know. The church could do with reaching out more to the single population, not that the families are not important, it just seems that singles are forgotten.

Start adding LGBT into the equation and you have another problem. Friends may assume you are attracted to them and will lead them to sin, even if you are living your life according to the teachings of the church and not living as a practicing gay person.