What are your thoughts on suicide?

[John10]

We don’t know, but we do know that anyone who thinks that suicide is the best choice needs prayer for some reason or another.

True, however most of the time people need companionship and a sense of belonging socially. More importantly people need to have a purpose. Material needs only help to address people’s need so far, however they are never enough on their own.

 

[John10]

It is important to look at the intentions, social dynamics and ethical consequences for the well being of everyone involved. We live in a complex society; suicide may seem like a simple solution. But its also a permanent solution to temporary problems, which makes it no enduring solution at all.

All that is true, however we must never see suicide as a solution, because it never is. I see it more as a symptom of a hyper-materialist and secular society, where our worth is mainly due to our material success.

 

[Wm777]

All that is true, however we must never see suicide as a solution, because it never is. I see it more as a symptom of a hyper-materialist and secular society, where our worth is mainly due to our material success.

FWIW, the phrase “Suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem” has somehow been popularized as a way to dissuade someone from killing themselves. See link.

To amplify what you are saying, the actual intention of the phrase is probably somewhat (and perhaps inappropriately) ironic; the intention is more to agree that it is not a solution, which is what I said.

To a distraught person, you’re right, suicide likely appears as a solution to any number of problems, but I dont think there is anything in this life greater than the glory that awaits us in eternity… so - I say, give the God of the living the glory…

 

[Wm777]

Just thinking…

I admit I haven’t read all of the posts in this thread, but has anyone said anything about “suicide bombers” and similar acts of terrorism?

This is obviously a very bad problem today.

Those responsible for the bombings in Sri Lanka last Easter are an example of a “religiously-enabled” form of suicide, although it couldn’t be more wrong.

One of the more positive Catholic points on this sad subject is - we just can’t have people killing each other… so the notion of eternal punishment for committing a deadly action (which kills others [i.e. more people than onesself]) is a lot better at discouraging suicide than one that gives something like suicide bombers a rubber stamp on a one-way ticket to heaven…

 

[PetraG]

I agree with you, however I think no one should be even contemplating suicide as a “solution” for anything. Granted there may be cases of mentally ill and irrational persons committing it, however as a society we must strive to discourage people from doing this.

Yes. When suicide looks like a “solution,” you have some serious problem-solving issues going on, by definition. You may think you’re being rational and your case is different and you need to keep it all to yourself because other people don’t understand and they’ll think less of you or step in to make your decisions for you because they think you’re crazy. No! We need to know this is a “Do Not Pass Go” line of thinking. It really is an “I feel like there is an elephant standing on my chest” moment.

Part of taking care of our own mental health, after all, is being willing to “red flag” ourselves. We ought to coach ourselves in advance that what we feel when we start entertaining that kind of thinking isn’t what we might imagine when we’re doing well. It might feel like we’d think, but it might not. No matter. Just thinking the thoughts puts us in harm’s way. They become habitual, they can become normal to us. They can start to seem rational, not a cry for help but an answer to our problems. We have to appreciate that, both about ourselves and about others: that is, that suicidal ideation is both a symptom and a stressor that can be expected to affect the central nervous system negatively. Just thinking the thoughts is a serious symptom, not just a wrong-headed choice. The reponse has to go beyond “Don’t think like that/Don’t talk like that.”

Remembering that suicide is a grave offense against life doesn’t harm a suicidal person. It isn’t enough to treat them, but it can function as a guard rail, if you will, even when someone has mitigated culpability. It isn’t as if there is a sharp dividing line between being fully rational and being unduly pressured by a central nervous system issue. There isn’t an on/off switch between “rational and culpable” and “irrational and not responsible.” I’d say the main thing to stress is not “you’d be an evil person for doing this” but “you are not seeing the situation clearly if you consider doing this. If you don’t see your life as valuable every bit as much as anyone else’s life is, you deserve the same help anyone else would deserve.” Maybe you’re not seeing it clearly because you are ignoring your moral compass and maybe your brain chemicals are messed up, but the main thing is to keep you safe until your thinking can clear up.

 

[BlueMantle]

My father committed suicide 11 years ago. I have been praying for his soul every day since hoping essentially for a miracle intervention. But the thing is, while a baptised Catholic, he never practiced his Faith. Ever. He never went to church, prayed or received the Sacraments. He was a definite NON Christian. An atheist. That is an element here that is not being addressed. All the other sins a non believer has committed in their lives, unrepentant and unforgiven (as in not gone to Confession) don’t help the case when they ultimately take their own lives.

I hope and pray to God every day that my father somehow be spared and be in Purgatory. I want that more than anything. But I would only hope and never presume.

 

[PetraG]

My father committed suicide 11 years ago. I have been praying for his soul every day since hoping essentially for a miracle intervention. But the thing is, while a baptised Catholic, he never practiced his Faith. Ever. He never went to church, prayed or received the Sacraments. He was a definite NON Christian. An atheist. That is an element here that is not being addressed. All the other sins a non believer has committed in their lives, unrepentant and unforgiven (as in not gone to Confession) don’t help the case when they ultimately take their own lives.

I hope and pray to God every day that my father somehow be spared and be in Purgatory. I want that more than anything. But I would only hope and never presume.

I’m so sorry. Yes, I think the suicide victim can be seduced into thinking “I’ll just end it, at least all my troubles will be over.” I hope as you do: that if only we are granted Purgatory when we die, even if we die at our own hand, we’ll be granted the opportunity to embrace what grace can do to the soul who finally unites his or her will to the Will of God. May those souls be given great graces in order to ready them for eternal life with all of the blessed.

 

[Wm777]

Yes. When suicide looks like a “solution,” you have some serious problem-solving issues going on, by definition. You may think you’re being rational and your case is different and you need to keep it all to yourself because other people don’t understand and they’ll think less of you or step in to make your decisions for you because they think you’re crazy. No! We need to know this is a “Do Not Pass Go” line of thinking. It really is an “I feel like there is an elephant standing on my chest” moment.

i dont know if I am following everything you said there, so my response may not be in line with what you are thinking But the complexity or difficulty of the solution does not seem to matter. well, maybe the difficulty, but not the complexity.

I had a late high school acquaintance who committed suicide. He went to Catholic school with me. He was always kind of a tough guy, and he got arrested around 40 y/o (I dont know what he did). But he went to his family for help, which didn’t go well, so he took out a gun and shot himself in front of them.

I didn’t know him very well, but it was actually a pretty simple “problem”. Whatever the case was, when someone else had to judge him - so he could serve his time - he wouldn’t cooperate. What I mean here is, he was simple (but not stupid) guy - and what he was confronted with wouldn’t demand a degree in rocket science, so failing to solve a complex calculus problem wasn’t the reason he did what he did. And, whatever he did, I do not suspect the judge would have given him the death penalty by any means at all. It was not that serious of a crime. But what was more at stake for him was his own will in deciding outcomes, which was apparently not the best for him or others, so I think he simply wanted to have the final say. That’s the only thing I can think of for wanting to leave his family with such a ghastly memory - as if to blame them… with a “see what you made me do… thanks for nothing…” sort of attitude…

That is one of the sins of Adam. But God sees through such fig leaves. How God judges at that point is in God’s hands.

But my point here was just to say some “solutions” are simple and all we need to do is just let God be God. He shines on the good and bad alike. His mercy is freely given and precious. One only need stay open to receiving it the better half of the time.

(Also, if anyone is following my posts here, the person mentioned in this post is not the same person mentioned in my other post (my best friend’s son).)

 

[DaveBj]

FWIW, the phrase “Suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem” has somehow been popularized as a way to dissuade someone from killing themselves.

I believe that should be, “Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.”

D

 

[Wm777]

Syd Lexia got the better of me.

 

[BlueMaxx]

Syd Lexia got the better of me.

I completely understand…I have a bit of it myself…

Lysdexics Untie!

 

[Catholic361]

I do as well know family members who have committed suicide. I don’t know if they are with Our Father I would hope that they would be but we will never know until we are called home by Our Lord.

 

[JanR]

For those who’ve never been stuck in the abyss – the bottomless pit – with no hand holds or toe holds to help them climb out, no explanation will suffice. For those who have, no explanation is needed. This is the nature of severe depression – despondency. It’s all-consuming, and one is powerless against it, without the right kind of help. God knows that. Sometimes, suffering is so great that the human soul is devoured by it. The right kind of help isn’t always readily available. If one can get help, one should. But, we shouldn’t judge the character of someone who has committed suicide, as tragic and senseless as it may seem to the rest of us. Leave that judgement up to God. He knows best.

 

[jzea1992]

I think depression is like a cancer of the soul. Emotional pain is worse than physical pain and it goes unnoticed and also uncared for.

 

[PetraG]

But my point here was just to say some “solutions” are simple and all we need to do is just let God be God. He shines on the good and bad alike. His mercy is freely given and precious. One only need stay open to receiving it the better half of the time.

That’s the thing–a simple look back at our own “simple” and “complicated” decisions would show any of us–or at least any of us with a measure of experience in life–that we often don’t understand how simple or complex our own decisions were. We can’t understand our own motivations half of the time. We don’t use the grace sitting right in front of us…most of the time? We know we need mercy. We hope, therefore that everyone will get as much as possible. As far as what people are thinking who commit suicide, well, it is worth trying to understand it so maybe we’ll have some hope of giving those tempted to do it whatever we might be able to give to lighten their load and turn them away from it. Perhaps we’ll be able to turn ourselves away from this ourselves some day. As for understanding why any particular person did what they did, though? No, you’re right: that is for God alone. We can trust God’s mercy and justice. Neither will be shorted for the sake of the other.

 

[twoangels]

Being deeply depressed and suicidal can feel like a living hell. The thought that kept me alive when I was twelve was “There’s only hope in living.” So even though I didn’t see a light at the end of the tunnel, I was convinced that killing myself would only cement me into my misery.

I’ve lived in some state of depression for the past two decades since. I do still have suicidal thoughts, but assure people I won’t act on them. I do sometimes have thoughts of “Why didn’t you do it back then? You should have ended it then?” This thought comes up especially when I start feeling like there’s no hope for Heaven for me, that my mental health struggles are rooted in sin and may be evidence over where I’ll end up.

Some days though aren’t that bad.

 

[Catholic361]

I totally understand where you are coming from because I also have been suffering from depression for years. I have been pulled from the edge of death more than once by family and friends who have been through the dark nights of my soul with me and have always been there for me even though at times I felt like they didn’t care or understand me. I have also been through counseling at times and that has helped. I now know that people do care about me. I still have my times when I’m down but I know that it was staten talking and I know that our heavenly Father is and does care about me and that He is caring me when I need it. (look up the poem footprints in the sand) I have always liked it.

 

[otjm]

It would be interesting to see a comparison chart about church attendance. The only surprise from the 3 charts was that Washington State wasn’t higher, as I have heard many times that the Northwest has one of the highest rates (perhaps per capita). Oregon being one of the most unchurched states in the Union, it comes as no surprise.

 

[Wm777]

For those who’ve never been stuck in the abyss – the bottomless pit – with no hand holds or toe holds to help them climb out, no explanation will suffice. For those who have, no explanation is needed. This is the nature of severe depression – despondency. It’s all-consuming, and one is powerless against it, without the right kind of help. God knows that. Sometimes, suffering is so great that the human soul is devoured by it. The right kind of help isn’t always readily available. If one can get help, one should. But, we shouldn’t judge the character of someone who has committed suicide, as tragic and senseless as it may seem to the rest of us. Leave that judgement up to God. He knows best.

Your conclusion is correct, but (respectfully intended) the first part seems way too general.

It usually helps to break problems down into their simplest, most manageable states; and, then, you work through each one in terms of baby steps. Otherwise, the more general task at hand becomes overwhelming.

It’s like, if you had to move a ton of bricks from one side of the street to the other by hand… You couldn’t do it all at once; the weight would be crushing (depressing), so you manage it by taking a few bricks at a time over several trips.

I’m not a Dr, but I am pretty sure that’s how a Dr would solve the problem, as that technique (called stepwise refinement) is inextricably linked to most all academic exercises.

In terms of public mental health, you can’t just say “it’s all depression”, which would be wrong, since it could be any number of problems (schizophrenia, anxiety, drug and or alcohol abuse, delusional thinking (like Robin Williams, the Columbine Shooters, etc), comorbidities, even peer pressure and reckless behavior)…

Some of those things may apply to one situation, but not to another… so, the reason I say to avoid generalizations, but to break a situation down into smaller and more manageable piece is… if you’re in trouble, you can rule out a lot of irrelevant stuff to whatever might be bothering you…

@jzea1992: I wouldn’t recommend drawing analogies as such… That’s a form of generalization which taps into areas of negative thinking that you want to avoid… Some people have been able to use visualization and prayerful thinking to cure cancer, so I think what you are saying is effective, which is good… but just make sure you apply it in the correct way…

I’d say, only if you actually had cancer, it might help to confidently and prayerfully visualize a cancer tumor shrinking into nothing. That has worked sometimes for people.

But - if someone has depression - the last thing they need to be thinking about it a problem they may well not have… lest they talk themselves into a bigger problem…

 

[Pat_Albertson]

I am very weak, and suicide is a constant temptation and struggle for me. There is much food for thought in these: