What are your thoughts on the pope's call for Christian unity (video link)

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JonNC said:
You seem to be under the impression that most, or many non-Catholic western Christians belong to their church in “protest” or "defiance of the Catholic Church. This just isn’t the case.

Almost no protestants are exposed to the Catholic faith. The number who have read the Catholic Catechism is an infinitesimal fraction. Most non-Lutheran protestants have little knowledge of Lutheranism, much less Catholicism.

Most members of protestant churches today are members of that church and communion because they were raised in it, or married into it, or it was the first communion they were exposed to. Most view the Catholic parish down the street as just another church some friend of their’s goes to.

If Catholic catechesis is as bad as I’ve heard some Catholics here relate, or as bad as Lutheran catechesis is in some places, I’d say there’s a significant number of Catholics who haven’t really been exposed to the Catholic faith. We Lutherans have a similar problem. :o

Jon
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I couldn’t agree more. 👍
 
The way I see it, if it’s true to say that most Catholics reject Orthodoxy, and Anglcanism, and Lutheranism, and Methodism, and Presbyterianism, and Baptistism, and Pentecostalism, then it’s likewise true to say that most Orthodox and protestants reject Catholicism.
 
Peter_J said:
I think we’re getting off-topic, but since you posted the above comment I have to ask: how do you know that that is infallible? (Keep in mind that Vatican I said that every ex cathedra statement is infallible, but it never said how many ex cathedra statements there have been – or even whether there have been any!)
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Infallibility is not the issue.
What is at issue is understanding the full teaching of the Church, as expressed by the living Magisterium. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is a living office, not dead words on a page from centuries ago. The Tradition of the Catholic Church is living. It takes all that came before and expresses it in it’s fullest form, in the here and now.

Is it true that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation? Yes. That is not an exclusive statement, it is inclusive. It is not a statement of damnation, but one of invitation and hope for all people.
Catholics should know how to articulate it fully. No Catholic can make the statement that protestants are going to hell unless they repent. That’s an offensive and presumptuous statement. It distorts the call to unity in the Catholic Church in a way that excludes others pre-emptively. It presumes that someone other than God knows the eternal destiny of a soul.
 
clem456 said:
Infallibility is not the issue.
What is at issue is understanding the full teaching of the Church, as expressed by the living Magisterium. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is a living office, not dead words on a page from centuries ago. The Tradition of the Catholic Church is living. It takes all that came before and expresses it in it’s fullest form, in the here and now.

Is it true that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation? Yes. That is not an exclusive statement, it is inclusive. It is not a statement of damnation, but one of invitation and hope for all people.
Catholics should know how to articulate it fully. No Catholic can make the statement that protestants are going to hell unless they repent. That’s an offensive and presumptuous statement. It distorts the call to unity in the Catholic Church in a way that excludes others pre-emptively. It presumes that someone other than God knows the eternal destiny of a soul.
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No, it is simply quoting what the Church has always taught. I didn’t say that any individual person will go to hell for certain. I am saying that if someone isn’t part of the Catholic church, they will go to hell. God the Holy Spirt has told us this. To reject it is to reject God, the sin against the Holy Spirit.

I just get annoyed when people think all Christians should unite. We most definitely do, but if we are going to unite, we’re going to have to convert the other Christians to the Catholic faith. Not say that we are also to blame for the separation of Protestants like Pope Francis said(He said we’re both are today). No, we need to get the Protestants to realize their mistakes so they can enter the Catholic Church and obtain salvation.
 
I don’t see it as Protestants rejecting Catholic faith, but rather them staying committed to the faith they were raised in. How many of think you reject the Protestant faith over just simply staying committed to your Catholic faith? I think putting a negative term on this like “rejects” doesn’t do anyone any good.
 
clem456 said:
Infallibility is not the issue.
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You’re right, it’s off-topic.
clem456 said:
No Catholic can make the statement that protestants are going to hell unless they repent. That’s an offensive and presumptuous statement. It distorts the call to unity in the Catholic Church in a way that excludes others pre-emptively. It presumes that someone other than God knows the eternal destiny of a soul.
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That sounds about right. (I don’t get into a lot of these discussions, as I don’t spend much time on CA’s “traditionalist” subforum.)

🙂
 
shelby_sun said:
I don’t see it as Protestants rejecting Catholic faith, but rather them staying committed to the faith they were raised in. How many of think you reject the Protestant faith over just simply staying committed to your Catholic faith? I think putting a negative term on this like “rejects” doesn’t do anyone any good.
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They were presented with the truth, and rejected it. They have the ability to reason. If someone grows up thinking 2+2=5, and then a mathematician later correctly explains that it is false, then he is obviously expected to reason that the mathematician is correct.

What do you mean a negative term like “reject”? Do they not reject it? If they’re not rejecting it, what are they doing?
 
Can a Protestant make a profession of the Catholic faith after death?

Can a Protestant enter into heaven with mortal sin on their souls despite being invincibly ignorant of the Catholic faith?

I reject the Roman claim of papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction, but theoda is spot on with what the Church has always taught. There is not a “deepening of understanding” if it reverses/contradicts/refutes previous teaching. Further expressions made by the Church are supposed to clarify, not confuse or nullify.
 
theoda said:
No, we need to get the Protestants to realize their mistakes so they can enter the Catholic Church and obtain salvation.
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It’s not easy to convince people. Like if someone just says “Become Catholic.” it won’t do very much. Maybe if somebody says “Become Catholic.” it might do something (although even then I think we’d have to say it over and over and over and over again).
 
clem456 said:
The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is a living office, not dead words on a page from centuries ago. The Tradition of the Catholic Church is living. It takes all that came before and expresses it in it’s fullest form, in the here and now.
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Unless those pages that are actually alive and kicking are still in effect or have been removed/reformed/retracted.
 
(I figured it might be more effective if I pause between the first and second time I say it.)
 
theoda said:
They were presented with the truth, and rejected it. They have the ability to reason. If someone grows up thinking 2+2=5, and then a mathematician later correctly explains that it is false, then he is obviously expected to reason that the mathematician is correct.

What do you mean a negative term like “reject”? Do they not reject it? If they’re not rejecting it, what are they doing?
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They are living a faith that they feel as strongly in as you do your Catholic faith. Your math comparison does not work because one can prove through many visual examples that 2+2=5 every time in every situation. Catholics cannot prove the Virgin Birth or that the Eucharist is actually the body and blood of Christ.

Protestants simply live their faith as we do ours. I do not reject their faith; in fact, I always enjoy hearing what they believe and how we are different. Going to Catholic schools all over the US, my siblings and I were never taught, in school or in Church, that only through the Catholic Church could one be saved. I have worked at a Catholic high school for over 20s and I don’t know of anyone who was taught that either. Protestants believe in the same God as we do and read the same Bible.

I was taught that if you are confirmed in the Catholic church then you are expected to follow the Church’s teaching, but Protestants are not because they belong to another Christian church that worships the same God.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Unless those pages that are actually alive and kicking are still in effect or have been removed/reformed/retracted.
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What is your point, other than to proclaim that you don’t accept the Catholic Church?
 
theoda said:
They were presented with the truth, and rejected it. They have the ability to reason. If someone grows up thinking 2+2=5, and then a mathematician later correctly explains that it is false, then he is obviously expected to reason that the mathematician is correct.

What do you mean a negative term like “reject”? Do they not reject it? If they’re not rejecting it, what are they doing?
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So let me get your hypothetical straight…

You proclaim to the protestants that they are going to hell unless they repent. Your teaching is not the full truth. Therefore the gospel you preach is not the Gospel, and it cannot take root. Those who hear you are pushed away from the Church rather than drawn to it.

Since you want to talk about hell, who is in danger of damnation in your hypothetical?
 
clem456 said:
What is your point, other than to proclaim that you don’t accept the Catholic Church?
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I accept the Church. Some of the developments not so much.

But you are wrong when you say that those words are dead. That is not accurate.

Unless those words have been overriden, they are still in effect and in fact alive. Do you deny this?
 
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