What can Catholics do to stand up against police brutality?

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HolySpirit1 said:
we wouldnt need police if people could behave.
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But police and people are not separate entities. Police are people. They break laws, too.
HolySpirit1 said:
And perhaps if anything a law needs to be created that allows citizens to interviene against police when there is reason to believe that the police are abusing their authoraty , but that would be a very slippery slope and would need very detailed guidelines and even then may not do anything but cause excuses why someone didnt obey a lawful order.
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PERFECT! This is what addresses the question posed in this thread. I proposed earlier that an independent party addresses complaints against the police. Government agencies investigating themselves poses an obvious conflict of interest.
 
This article is well worth the read and cuts through any black and white thinking on this issue.

On any given day, in any police department in the nation, 15 percent of officers will do the right thing no matter what is happening. Fifteen percent of officers will abuse their authority at every opportunity. The remaining 70 percent could go either way depending on whom they are working with.

That’s a theory from my friend K.L. Williams, who has trained thousands of officers around the country in use of force. Based on what I experienced as a black man serving in the St. Louis Police Department for five years, I agree with him.
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HolySpirit1 said:
And perhaps if anything a law needs to be created that allows citizens to interviene against police when there is reason to believe that the police are abusing their authoraty , but that would be a very slippery slope and would need very detailed guidelines and even then may not do anything but cause excuses why someone didnt obey a lawful order.
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This sounds as though you’re suggesting that if I think Officer Joe is overreacting on a situation that I wasn’t privy to and know nothing about, I should be allowed to intervene.
HolySpirit1 said:
In the heat of the moment though to prevent police abuse, people have to be willing to get involved, get hurt, and get arrested, and not many are.
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I think that is what you’re suggesting. I have to say I hope that day never comes to pass.
 
It would also be extremely dangerous to all involved and probably not a good idea. A spectator may not know what the full story is and is likely emotionally compromised because of what they perceive to be an injustice.

For example spectator sees officers chase a unarmed person around a corner and tackle them. They are heavy handedly pulling the person arms back and you think they are using too much force. What you didn’t know is that maybe the police know he is wearing a bomb vest and if they don’t get his arms secure quickly he could trigger it and blow up everyone. This is a extreme example but it proves the point.

If you want to do anything the best thing you can do is be a good witness. Stay back and watch, record if you want. If you think something was done wrong then contact the agency afterwards and report it.
 
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You’re right, but the resisting arrest negates it.

Act like a normal person equals no problems.

Act like a entitled millennial and you have a problem.
 
HolySpirit said:
Act like a normal person equals no problems.
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You really don’t pay much attention to the news, do you? Which is fine, you certainly don’t have to. But don’t pretend to know what’s going on when you don’t.
 
Yes a statistically insignificant series of incidents have happened.

However a few incidents vs 350,000,000 people is adequate for me.
 
HolySpirit said:
Yes a statistically insignificant series of incidents have happened.

However a few incidents vs 350,000,000 people is adequate for me.
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They are not “insignificant” to those killed and their families. The depth of your empathy is just breathtaking.
 
Or a bystander could assume that police is completely in the right. Policy do indeed overreact at times. I don’t know why on here people think the police is almost always completely right and being unfairly judged. In the end, it is an injustice if an unarmed person is shot dead. Those misunderstandings should be scrutinized
 
Some people graduate at the top of their class and some at the bottom. Some people are virtuous and some are not. In the end, it is an occupation that people are paid to do. If they weren’t paid, they wouldn’t do it. Not everyone who is a police officer should be. The same goes for doctors, teachers and every other occupation. Police officers are human and affected by things in their lives, their hormones and their emotions. A police officer can have a bad day, like everyone else. A police officer can make mistakes, like everyone else. Nobody is perfect. I’m not justifying excessive force but I accept the use of appropriate force. Appropriate force can sometimes seem severe and it sometimes needs to be more excessive. Videos can be edited to show only one side of the altercation as well. Respecting police and trying to help them do their job, which is incredibly difficult and full of pressures that most of us don’t have to face, is imperative. Police can’t do their jobs properly if we don’t respond properly.
 
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Rozellelily said:
Many police officers are excellent people and do a great job everyday of protecting the public from criminals.
Unfortunately though,there are some bad officers too who give the police force a bad name due to their actions of brutality,lack of emotional control and being quick to use force.
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All most all police officers are excellent people and do a great job everyday of protecting the public from criminals.
Unfortunately though,there are a very small percentage of bad officers too who give the police force a bad name due to their actions of brutality,lack of emotional control and being quick to use force.

That as rewritten is much better.

As to what a catholic can do? Allow the justice system to do its job.
 
Not to take away from all the talking past each other going in. 😉

But perhaps there are some thing we can all agree on.
  • Police brutality is bad
  • Police brutality sometimes occurs
  • Not all (nor even most) police officers are guilty of police brutality
I hope you can forgive the comparison, but I am reminded of the priest sex abuse scandal. Is sex abuse bad? Of course. Did some priests commit sex abuse. Tragically, yes. Are all or even most priests guilty of sex abuse? Not even close. We can point that out without it meaning we condone sex abuse. Yet in the minds of some, simply pointing it out makes them feel we are making excuses for abusive priests. It’s a difficult situation to be in.

I’m sure police brutality occurs. And it ought to be condemned and prosecuted when it occurs. But I do think we need to strive to look at it as objectively as possible. I see a lot of opinions and anecdotal information, but not a lot of useful statistics. When people’s emotions are charged, it doesn’t always help the situation.

I know priests for whom the sex abuse scandal has been particularly difficult. It’s not because they have done anything, but it’s because the media narrative is so entrenched in people’s minds that they get looked at with suspicion everywhere they go. I’ve known some priests who have even gotten chewed out by random strangers who decide to lump them in with all the abuser priests.

And I fear we are going the same direction with the police. Every police officer will now be viewed with suspicion as though they might beat you down for no reason at all.

Such heightened tension concerns me.

Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not advocating sweeping things under the rug or being okay with those that victimize others. Not at all. But we do need to try to look at the situation honestly and realistically. Using news stories alone is seldom the best way to do that.
 
Jump4Joy said:
In the end, it is an injustice if an unarmed person is shot dead.
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That is true - but if a cop tells you keep your hands where they are, just do it. Don’t try to explain what you’re doing. Just keep your hands where they are.

It doesn’t negate any wrong that’s been done, but if you’re not armed and the other person is, they have the power in the situation and you’re the one at the disadvantage.

(That’s a royal ‘you’, for the record.)
 
Joe_5859 said:
And I fear we are going the same direction with the police. Every police officer will now be viewed with suspicion as though they might beat you down for no reason at all.
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I actually think this has already happened. I’m waiting for the day an officer says “I’m not getting involved”. That’s sort of already happening because from what I hear, forces are having serious recruitment problems. This is not a positive thing.
 
Jump4Joy said:
In the end, it is an injustice if an unarmed person is shot dead.
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Is it? It depends. There a several cases where an unarmed person can be legally shot. For example:

Police officer goes to arrest a suspect. The suspect is stronger, more skilled, whatever, than the officer. The officer tried to use other means to arrest him but is unsuccessfully. The suspect is now beating to officer and the officer is loosing and is in danger of being rendered unconscious or dead. In this situation it may indeed be reasonable and necessary for the officer to shoot the person, even if they are unarmed.

OR:

A police officer is responding to a call about a armed person walking around threating people with a gun. He find someone fitting the description and starts investigating it. While talking to the person he orders him not to make an sudden movement or reach for anything and to keep his hands still. He does not see a gun at the moment. Suddenly the person reaches in the back of his waistband and pulls out a black object and point it at the officer like a gun. The officer dives to the side and pulls his gun and shoots the person. It turns out the small black object was a cell phone. Was the shooting unjustified? Probably not. The officer had reason to believe the person was armed and that person ignored his orders not to reach for anything and yanks out something that could be reasonably believed to be a gun and points it at him. The officer makes the split second decision to defend himself from what a reasonable person would believe to be a immediate threat to his life. What if it had been a gun? The hesitation to act may very well cost the officer his life, and possibly more lives.

Just because a person is unarmed does not necessarily mean the officer is not justified. It, like every officer involved shooting, needs to be investigated and it will be. Regardless of how clearly justified an officer shooting is or isn’t it will always be investigated.
 
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As a side note I would encourage anyone interested in the topic to see if their local agencies have a Citizen Police Academy or ride along program so they can learn a bit more about what law enforcement faces every day and get a chance to learn some more about it. Many agencies have some kind of program and they are usually free.
 
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