What can we do about the new nuclear threat?

[Lisa4Catholics]

Peacemonger:

This is such an ignorant question.

 

[thestickman]

Peacemonger:

And what would that solve? Besides killing tons of people.

So you assume the warning to evacuate Mecca would be ignored? Why?

What would it solve? Demoralizing the enemy comes to mind immediately. Eliminating one of the sources of islamofacism comes to mind as well. Showing the world that anyone who dares to attack us in such a way will be destroyed would be a good thing also. Remember, under the scenario you’ve drawn up, we would have every right to respond with all the force our elected leaders determined was neccessary according to the CCC. Since we would be warning the citzens of Mecca what was coming and why, also, offering them free transportation out of the area, we would not be committing indiscriminate destruction but rather, specific, discriminately destroying an area of immeasureable value of to our enemy.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

I just have to ask peace monger,whether or not you think the question to be ignorant or not. Should Saddam be put back into power in Iraq? If not, then you have to admit,that the war has done at least one good thing. I noticed you evaded the question.Saddam has killed more people in Iraq than this war has. So what is your remedy for this,and what is your answer. If we hadn’t gone in Saddam would have continued to terrorize his people.What is your answer?

 

[Peacemonger]

I just have to ask peace monger,whether or not you think the question to be ignorant or not.

I’ve never asked an ignorant question in my life!

Should Saddam be put back into power in Iraq? If not, then you have to admit,that the war has done at least one good thing. I noticed you evaded the question.Saddam has killed more people in Iraq than this war has. So what is your remedy for this,and what is your answer. If we hadn’t gone in Saddam would have continued to terrorize his people.What is your answer?

My answer to the whole Middle Eastern problem is to let the Arabs solve their own problems. If these people are not willing to rise up against brutal dictators and oppresive governments then why in the hell should we do it? And please Lisa, stop kidding yourself in believing that our invasion of Iraq was done because the US cared so deeply for the Iraqi people.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Peacemonger:

I’ve never asked an ignorant question in my life!

My answer to the whole Middle Eastern problem is to let the Arabs solve their own problems. If these people are not willing to rise up against brutal dictators and oppresive governments then why in the hell should we do it? And please Lisa, stop kidding yourself in believing that our invasion of Iraq was done because the US cared so deeply for the Iraqi people.

 

[Peacemonger]

thestickman:

So you assume the warning to evacuate Mecca would be ignored? Why?

I think instead of fleeing Mecca, Arabs would fill the place. A chance to be a martyr.

What would it solve? Demoralizing the enemy comes to mind immediately.

Or enraging them even more.

Eliminating one of the sources of islamofacism comes to mind as well.

Turning Mecca into “glass” would wipe out “islamofacism” about as effectively as destroying the Vatican would wipe out Christianity.

Showing the world that anyone who dares to attack us in such a way will be destroyed would be a good thing also.

USA! USA! USA!

Remember, under the scenario you’ve drawn up, we would have every right to respond with all the force our elected leaders determined was neccessary according to the CCC. Since we would be warning the citzens of Mecca what was coming and why, also, offering them free transportation out of the area, we would not be committing indiscriminate destruction but rather, specific, discriminately destroying an area of immeasureable value of to our enemy.

Say hello to Tinker Bell and Winnie the Pooh for me.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Now who is being anti-Islamic? I am all for people taking care of there own bussiness, but these people were understandably terrified of him.And as far as that way of thinking, what about Hitler and the German people?What would have happened if we had gone in before all those people were executed?My Uncle is jewish, his parents, siblings and one uncle escaped from Poland.Both sides of their family were killed in the camps.I prefer peace as well, but if you do nothing to defend people who are being killed by tyrants and look the other way, do not be surprised when they end up on your doorstep.God Bless,Lisa

 

[Peacemonger]

Lisa4Catholics:

Now who is being anti-Islamic? I am all for people taking care of there own bussiness, but these people were understandably terrified of him.And as far as that way of thinking, what about Hitler and the German people?What would have happened if we had gone in before all those people were executed?My Uncle is jewish, his parents, siblings and one uncle escaped from Poland.Both sides of their family were killed in the camps.I prefer peace as well, but if you do nothing to defend people who are being killed by tyrants and look the other way, do not be surprised when they end up on your doorstep.God Bless,Lisa

I said nothing about looking the other way. But I should have been more clear on that point. I forget that most of my friends here consider violence as the only way to defeat evil.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Peacemonger:

I said nothing about looking the other way. But I should have been more clear on that point. I forget that most of my friends here consider violence as the only way to defeat evil.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

I do not think violence is the only way to defeat evil. In fact I was hoping that Bush would listen to our Holy Father and exhuast all other means before we went to war. But the fact is we are at war now. I am glad they found Saddam and got him out of there. Saddom and Hitler are both personalities, that are egomaniacs and use or used fear and destruction to gain power.They both seemingly had killed there concience. I support our troops, they are fighting for their country. Our leader is Bush, I personally like him, is he perfect?No. Are you?You are suppose to pray for leaders. He has done good things for the unborn, it is uncharitable of you never to acknowledge them, you said you were pro-life.He has also thrown a wrench in the plans of plannedparenthood, he has denied giving them money for abortions that they are trying to get started all over the world.He passed the partial birth abortion ban. Do you despise him that much that you can’t acknowledge that?Think about that and give me an honest answer.God Bless

 

[Peacemonger]

Lisa4Catholics:

I do not think violence is the only way to defeat evil. In fact I was hoping that Bush would listen to our Holy Father and exhuast all other means before we went to war. But the fact is we are at war now. I am glad they found Saddam and got him out of there. Saddom and Hitler are both personalities, that are egomaniacs and use or used fear and destruction to gain power.They both seemingly had killed there concience. I support our troops, they are fighting for their country. Our leader is Bush, I personally like him, is he perfect?No. Are you?You are suppose to pray for leaders. He has done good things for the unborn, it is uncharitable of you never to acknowledge them, you said you were pro-life.He has also thrown a wrench in the plans of plannedparenthood, he has denied giving them money for abortions that they are trying to get started all over the world.He passed the partial birth abortion ban. Do you despise him that much that you can’t acknowledge that?Think about that and give me an honest answer.God Bless

I don’t despise Bush. And I do appreciate the fact that he does at least make some attempts to stem the tide of abortion. But being pro-life is more that just being against abortion.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Peacemonger:

I don’t despise Bush. And I do appreciate the fact that he does at least make some attempts to stem the tide of abortion. But being pro-life is more that just being against abortion.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

I am glad you don’t despise Bush, and I am also aware that there is more to being pro- life.When Kerry and Bush ran against each other, you have to weigh use porportionate reason in determining who to vote for.Kerry was for all the issues that are non-negotiable in the Catholic Church, Bush supported Gods law.Check out the voters guide here.As far as the war and death, this is always sad and horrible when war is going on.But, again look at the 4,000 killed everyday in this country, there is no comparrison,Kerry promised he would make sure that the war on the unborn continued.Kerry wants to use embryonic stem cells,we are people not commodities.Kerry voted against the partial birth abortion ban. I could not even entertain in clear concience voting for Kerry. I pray for him and that he will be converted.Bush has done alot for life, there is not anybody you will find that is perfect for office,but you have to weigh all the stances.I don’t know if you will comprehend what I am saying,because of your anger about the war,but I had to try.God Bless

 

[Peacemonger]

Lisa4Catholics:

I am glad you don’t despise Bush, and I am also aware that there is more to being pro- life.When Kerry and Bush ran against each other, you have to weigh use porportionate reason in determining who to vote for.Kerry was for all the issues that are non-negotiable in the Catholic Church, Bush supported Gods law.Check out the voters guide here.As far as the war and death, this is always sad and horrible when war is going on.But, again look at the 4,000 killed everyday in this country, there is no comparrison,Kerry promised he would make sure that the war on the unborn continued.Kerry wants to use embryonic stem cells,we are people not commodities.Kerry voted against the partial birth abortion ban. I could not even entertain in clear concience voting for Kerry. I pray for him and that he will be converted.Bush has done alot for life, there is not anybody you will find that is perfect for office,but you have to weigh all the stances.I don’t know if you will comprehend what I am saying,because of your anger about the war,but I had to try.God Bless

I understand perfectly For the reasons you stated above, I did not vote for Kerry, but I also did not vote for Bush.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Peacemonger:

If it was carried out by a country such as Iran, which, BTW, would NEVER happen, .

And you know this how? Read the evening news today?

 

[HagiaSophia]

Peacemonger:

I forget that most of my friends here consider violence as the only way to defeat evil.

Another straw man to knock over - no one but yourself has made that statement as best as I can recall.

 

[thestickman]

HagiaSophia:

Another straw man to knock over - no one but yourself has made that statement as best as I can recall.

Your recollection is working just fine.

 

[Michael_C]

Peacemonger:

Well…it depends. If the strike was carried out by a terrorist cell or cells then our special forces/CIA should seek out and destroy or capture those involved.

Many countries don’t have the technology to make a nuclear weapon let alone a “Terrorsit Cell”. Someone would have to give the cell the weapon and that country would have to be held accountable. Arresting a few terrorists is not justice is a nuclear device is detonated in the USA.

 

[Brad]

Peacemonger:

"Nuclear deterrence as a national policy must be condemned as morally abhorrent

because it is the excuse and justification for the continued possession and further development of these horrendous weapons. We urge all to join in taking up the challenge to begin the effort to eliminate nuclear weapons now, rather than relying on them indefinitely."
– 75 U.S. Catholic Bishops, The Morality of Nuclear Deterrence: An Evaluation by Pax Christi Bishops in the United States, June 1998

“As people, we must refuse to legitimate the idea of nuclear war. Such a refusal will require not only new ideas and new visions, but what the Gospel calls conversion of the heart…We believe it is necessary for the sake of prevention to build a barrier against the idea of nuclear war as a viable strategy for defense…Each proposed addition to our strategic system or change in strategic doctrine must be assessed in the light of whether it will render steps toward progressive disarmament more or less likely.”
– U.S. Catholic Bishops’ Pastoral Letter on War and Peace, 1983

Also in 1983 in the pastoral letter above -

238 votes for, 9 against, with 40 bishops abstaining to declare morally wrong the manufacture, deployment and use of nuclear weapons, whether in aggression or in retaliation, attack or defense.

The first citation is a statement of 75 Bishops, not a Church document. This is their well-informed opinion, which should be seriously considered, but remains just that - an opinon - it does not refer itself to any Church documents.

The second citation does not declare unused nuclear weapons to be evil, but suggests we should always be moving towards disarmament. I think we can do that when we are faced with less threats.

The third citation shows a great many US Bishops in 1983 think the use of nuclear weapons is a bad thing, not unused weapons. It looks like they were voting against manufacture with intention to use.

 

[Brad]

Peacemonger:

Well…it depends. If the strike was carried out by a terrorist cell or cells then our special forces/CIA should seek out and destroy or capture those involved.

In the prospect of millions killed by terrorists, with Bush already saying he would hold those that harbor terrorists responsible, you would not consider retailiation against the state that harbored them? This is a recipe for the end of the U.S.

Didn’t God, in the OT, demand Israel to fight it’s enemies?

Peacemonger:

If it was carried out by a country such as Iran, which, BTW, would NEVER happen, then I would hope our response would be to attack and destroy their military through air and naval power as well as targeted sanctions and complete diplomatic isolation, i.e. seal our borders to nationals from the country involved as well as a round up and deportation of their nationals who may be in the US.

You saying this would never happen indicates a great deal of ignorance on your position. Read Yossef Bodansky’s “The High Cost of Peace” to understand what states such as Iran (and formerly Iraq) do to purposefully use terrorists to commit war actions for the very purpose of causing death and not making themselves appear culpable.