What can we do about the shootings?

[vz71]

No, the claim made by vern_humphrey was than Japan’s high suicide rate proves that guns are not a factor.

You misunderstood.
I read the point being that guns are not a factor in a successful suicide.

You posited-

But most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun.

The counter, correctly, is showing that presence of a firearm has nothing to do with a successful suicide.
Japan, with it’s high suicide rate and low presence of firearms, shows this.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

No, the claim made by vern_humphrey was than Japan’s high suicide rate proves that guns are not a factor.

You misunderstood.
I read the point being that guns are not a factor in a successful suicide.

You posited-

But most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun.

The counter, correctly, is showing that presence of a firearm has nothing to do with a successful suicide.
Japan, with it’s high suicide rate and low presence of firearms, shows this.

The statement I posited was the conclusion of a study in the US. It has nothing to do with Japan. Maybe people in Japan are just more skilled at killing themselves. Or maybe they just try more often. The study was not about Japan. So no data about Japan can refute the study. In the US the presence of a gun is a factor in how likely the suicide attempt is likely to succeed. Here is the exact figure from the study: “Across all suicide attempts not involving a firearm, less than 5 percent will result in death.”

 

[vz71]

In the US the presence of a gun is a factor in how likely the suicide attempt is likely to succeed.

This is not the same as was posited earlier…

But most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun.

Do you see the difference?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

In the US the presence of a gun is a factor in how likely the suicide attempt is likely to succeed.

This is not the same as was posited earlier…

But most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun.

Do you see the difference?

No, I don’t.

“Across all suicide attempts not involving a firearm, less than 5 percent will result in death. - But for gun suicide, those statistics are flipped: Approximately 85 percent of gun suicide attempts end in death.”

 

[Leo2014]

firemen of “placing their faith in a hose.”

Josephus was not a Christian. His work is used primarily as a secondary source to validate the existance of Christ on earth from a historical perspective. His work may not be apocryphal? But , it is not used to support any theological teachings.

Your fireman with a hose example makes no sense?

A craftsman will have tools that he uses in conjunction with his skills to acquire a finish product. However, I am certain that you will find many craftsmen that give credit for their creations of beauty to something metaphysical. I never heard anyone say; I credit my cool set of tools?

The gun in a Church example is the same thing. I started with asking about your environment and your reason for needing a gun? Hence, not all of us feel the need for an extreme level of protection? If we all did, than we would not be having this discussion of guns or no guns?

The gun would be an example of placing your fears in the faith of oneself with a weapon rather than doing what the people Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church did and welcome a stranger. These people gave us an important lesson. We have many biblical examples that resulted in the same demise.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Josephus was not a Christian. His work is used primarily as a secondary source to validate the existance of Christ on earth from a historical perspective. His work may not be apocryphal? But , it is not used to support any theological teachings.

Did I say Josephus was a Christian? Did I mention theological teachings?

 

[vern_humphrey]

The gun would be an example of placing your fears in the faith of oneself with a weapon rather than doing what the people Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church did and welcome a stranger. These people gave us an important lesson.

They gave us several important lessons. One of them is that “feel” is not a strategy for dealing with murderers.

 

[metanoia1]

Maybe stop referring to the cowardly murderers as shooters. They are murderers.

 

[BearingCross]

OK, while we’re on the topic of rights, let’s start with the basics: everyone has the right to life, and can only be deprived of it by God or the state, which has historically been viewed as God’s representative on Earth. If Christ really WAS trying to bring about a society without private ownership of property, there would be a dramatic reduction in crime, and therefore less violence. If he was trying to say that any form of government is unnecessary, then it must logically follow that we must all abide by the Ten Commandments, which prohibit murder.

 

[po18guy]

Nobody likes homicide. All of us like freedom. Some of us clearly are willing to exchange freedom for some nebulous promise of safety. Look around the world: the freedom goes, but the safety never arrives.

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. The only way they can inherit the freedom we have known is if we fight for it, protect it, defend it, and then hand it to them with the well fought lessons of how they in their lifetime must do the same. And if you and I don’t do this, then you and I may well spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free. - Ronaldus Magnus