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steve-b
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of course.Thanks, I read your links
You do believe in confession and reparation ?
The quotes I gave obviously show those people who Jesus judged, that obviously didn’t repair their relationship with Jesus.
What can we learn from Ireland's massive vote for abortion?
- Thread starter NoelFitz
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The quotes I gave obviously show those people who Jesus judged, that obviously didn’t repair their relationship with Jesus.
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Greenfields
Guest
And so we keep praying and never give up hope 
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RandomAlias
Guest
Jesus was speaking of the judgement that takes place when we die. As long as we are living, there is the possibility of repentance and forgiveness. That is why we should not speak of “writing off” anyone.
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RandomAlias
Guest
Neither. Those are not the only two options.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
my guess is it is explained by general secularism. People in Ireland want to be more secular like the rest of Western Europe, live in a post-Christian society. Truly sad.
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Augustinian
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That isn’t an irreversible trend- there have been plenty of periods of increased religious interest and devotion over the centuries.
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steve-b
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One can potentially excommunicate themselves with how they personally deal with this abortion issue. This is serious business. The Church puts Automatic excommunication on the actsteve-b:
Jesus was speaking of the judgement that takes place when we die. As long as we are living, there is the possibility of repentance and forgiveness. That is why we should not speak of “writing off” anyone.
How many people ultimately dispose of this sin properly?
Just praying for forgiveness isn’t necessarily good enough.
Example: conditions for contrition
1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.
1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.
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Axsenex
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I’m fascinated by the history of Irish laws on abortion & contraception.
It is not boring at all.
It is not boring at all.
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Saxum
Guest
It is clear that Our Lord is thinning the ranks. The cultural Catholics are leaving in droves. Their faith died a long time ago and they’re now going with the flow; they’re dead bodies floating downstream.
Our Lord expects more from his faithful people who remain the Church. I believe he has been preparing us for a mission. Fatima, Divine Mercy, Vatican II, the New Evangelisation, John Paul II etc have been calling all of the baptised to take take their missionary responsibilities seriously. We have to strive for sanctity and spread the Gospel! We must swim against the current - we must be countercultural and radically holy.
Our Lord expects more from his faithful people who remain the Church. I believe he has been preparing us for a mission. Fatima, Divine Mercy, Vatican II, the New Evangelisation, John Paul II etc have been calling all of the baptised to take take their missionary responsibilities seriously. We have to strive for sanctity and spread the Gospel! We must swim against the current - we must be countercultural and radically holy.
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Thanks for all the various views.
Many recommend more prayer and fasting. The priest in our parish suggested these are not the only things needed, we also must get out and canvas, talk to neighbors, friends and colleagues and get them to retain the abortion ban. Many voted this way but the majority did not.
Let me try to summarize the position.
Ireland had a guarantee of life for the unborn in our constitution, recognising the equal right to life of the pregnant woman and the unborn. [Eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland - Wikipedia]
‘The states acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.’
The people voted to remove this. The actual words were:
‘Do you approve of the proposal to amend the Constitution contained in the undermentioned Bill?’
This refers to the Thirty-Sixth Amendment of the Constitution Bill 2018 which will allow repealing (removing) Article 40.3.3 and replacing it with this line:
“Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancies.”
This means that parliament can legislate for the termination of pregnancies,
[http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-referendum-readers-questions-3985760-May2018/]
Politicians said new legislation will be introduced before the end of the year allowing abortions without any restrictions in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and up to birth in certain circumstances, rape or fatal foetal/fetal abnormalities.
‘According to the RTÉ(radio) exit poll, almost a third of practising Catholics voted Yes last Friday. As Archbishop Diarmuid Martin recalled on Sunday “one parish priest said to me he talked to two elderly ladies who go to Mass everyday and he said to them ‘what way are ye going to vote?’ and they said they were ‘going to vote Yes. The church always told us what to do and now it’s time for us’.”
The authority of Catholic bishops does not now even extend to some elderly ladies in Ireland.
Archbishop Martin said the referendum result also showed “the city/rural divide doesn’t exist. There’s one culture in Ireland.” It is a culture which grew in a state where 93 per cent of primary schools are controlled by the Catholic Church and where, according to The Irish Times exit poll last Friday, a great majority in every age cohort from 18 to 64 were Yes voters.’
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soc...-end-to-catholic-ireland-greatly-exaggerates-
That is the present position. I will reply to other posts later.
Many recommend more prayer and fasting. The priest in our parish suggested these are not the only things needed, we also must get out and canvas, talk to neighbors, friends and colleagues and get them to retain the abortion ban. Many voted this way but the majority did not.
Let me try to summarize the position.
Ireland had a guarantee of life for the unborn in our constitution, recognising the equal right to life of the pregnant woman and the unborn. [Eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland - Wikipedia]
‘The states acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.’
The people voted to remove this. The actual words were:
‘Do you approve of the proposal to amend the Constitution contained in the undermentioned Bill?’
This refers to the Thirty-Sixth Amendment of the Constitution Bill 2018 which will allow repealing (removing) Article 40.3.3 and replacing it with this line:
“Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancies.”
This means that parliament can legislate for the termination of pregnancies,
[http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-referendum-readers-questions-3985760-May2018/]
Politicians said new legislation will be introduced before the end of the year allowing abortions without any restrictions in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and up to birth in certain circumstances, rape or fatal foetal/fetal abnormalities.
‘According to the RTÉ(radio) exit poll, almost a third of practising Catholics voted Yes last Friday. As Archbishop Diarmuid Martin recalled on Sunday “one parish priest said to me he talked to two elderly ladies who go to Mass everyday and he said to them ‘what way are ye going to vote?’ and they said they were ‘going to vote Yes. The church always told us what to do and now it’s time for us’.”
The authority of Catholic bishops does not now even extend to some elderly ladies in Ireland.
Archbishop Martin said the referendum result also showed “the city/rural divide doesn’t exist. There’s one culture in Ireland.” It is a culture which grew in a state where 93 per cent of primary schools are controlled by the Catholic Church and where, according to The Irish Times exit poll last Friday, a great majority in every age cohort from 18 to 64 were Yes voters.’
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soc...-end-to-catholic-ireland-greatly-exaggerates-
That is the present position. I will reply to other posts later.
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RandomAlias
Guest
Why so hasty to write them off? They may be floating but they are not dead yet. Rather than watching them drift downstream and saying “What a shame, what a shame,” good Catholics should be trying to save them.
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RandomAlias
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I am not sure how your reply, correct though it is, addresses my point that those still living are not yet condemned and may yet repent and be saved.
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steve-b
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Yet until one repents, and one being in mortal sin, they are already in a position of being condemned. Since we ALL are just one heartbeat away from judgement, nobody should presume they have lots of time to get right with God…
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brian_custer
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i don’t know what i could possibly add to this post
ireland has proven herself to be a weak, secular nation
as the person i am quoting said; a lot of factors played into it
ireland has lost her way… mostly due to the the nation’s deep dive into secularism
i am ashamed of the Irish Republic
ireland has proven herself to be a weak, secular nation
as the person i am quoting said; a lot of factors played into it
ireland has lost her way… mostly due to the the nation’s deep dive into secularism
i am ashamed of the Irish Republic
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Axsenex
Guest
“Men at some time are masters of their fates:
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.”
Cassius, Act I Scene II in Julius Caesar
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.”
Cassius, Act I Scene II in Julius Caesar
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joseie
Guest
Why concerned about abortion only?.What about many countries which legalized SS marriage and even more countries brothels and prostitution? Are they not equally or more mortal? Atleast in the case of abortion ,it is a conditional one with some safeguards and not that it can be done at any time as one wish.
A serious introspection is required at all levels of Catholic Church as to why people especially youth are slowly becoming disinterested in religious matters…
A serious introspection is required at all levels of Catholic Church as to why people especially youth are slowly becoming disinterested in religious matters…
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DignumEtJustum
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A majority? I don’t think so. 700,000 voted yes out of a population of over 4 million. Ireland never voted this in; rather some group of degenerates paid enough to get the result they wanted. The unfortunate side of money; whoever has the most often gets what they want. Goodbye culture of Ireland.
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adgloriam
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@Greenfields @0Scarlett_nidiyilii @Tis_Bearself @Roseeurekacross The pope Emeritus in the quoted letter has only himself to blame. He was head of the CDF why didn’t he act earlier? Why did the CDF authorize that “cemitery fund” in Massachusets to avoid paying victims instead of…It is called hypocrisy, and this time the church got caught up in their own hypocrisy. The are no excuses, the bast**ards turned a blind eye to the pedophilia cases. They caused scandal to a great many. How do the victims feel? How did they feel for all those decades of longing for justice? That is what Benedict XVI has to answer for. And all his writing can’t make up for the fact.
I had a problem a while back. All the priests “stone walled” me. Where was the church then?
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anikins
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Sexually abusive priests hit Ireland hard, statistically more than any other country. It was a continuous refuge for pedophile priests who were being moved out of various countries. Part of me thinks that the Irish people’s fall from faith is directly correlated to that.
Regardless, this is the Church’s fault. We need to find better ways to win over hearts and minds. What worked in years past is obviously not working for the new generations.
Regardless, this is the Church’s fault. We need to find better ways to win over hearts and minds. What worked in years past is obviously not working for the new generations.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Anyone shocked by this definitely has a lot to learn. It was next to impossible for it to go any other way given where Ireland is at right now, socially, culturally, politically. It was maybe partially a swipe at or a rejection of their Catholic roots/history but mainly just a confirmation of Ireland’s very enthusiastic embrace of Western European secularism, which has been going on for about 50 or 60 years now. Riding a bike down hill.
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