What Cardinal Burke really said about 'resisting' Pope Francis

[sps49]

Do me a favor. Type ‘Cardinal Burke interviews’ on a google search line, and do the same for Kasper and Marx. The return for Burke, as one would expect, is 5,660,000, compared to Kasper’s 429,000. Who’s been foremost in asserting his beliefs?

Please. There is far more happening to make a google search index than what you are suggesting here.

 

[estesbob]

Just from your post it sounded to me like you were totally defending only Cardinal Burke and had nothing to say in support of Pope Francis and filled with venom against anyone who spoke out against Cardinal Burke. I apologize if I missinderstood you.

I love Pope Francis. Of course the Pope Francis I love is the Pope-not the Pope Francis as portrayed by the secular media. I believe that most of this alleged conflict between Cardinal Burke and the Pope is driven by people who do not have the best interests of the Church at heart.

 

[ProVobis]

I don’t think that’s what LongingSoul is saying. He/she is not asking why is it necessary that both views be given; he/she is asking about the timing of Burke’s remarks. Why did the cardinal feel it was necessary to speak about “feminization” right after the Holy Father spoke about female theologians? On its surface, it appears that Burke **wanted **to contradict Francis. I’m not saying that he actually does; I’m saying that he gives the appearance of such impropriety. Burke is savvy; he has to know his comments would be taken like that and they were.

I think you missed my point. I’m sure there are many other opinions on the matter amongst cardinals and bishops. We’re only talking about what actually sells news. Journalists usually smell what provokes the most interest and they go after it, interviewing everyone on the street if necessary until they get the right story. Apparently this debate is a gold mine for them and they’ll milk it for awhile, I’m sure.

 

[Sirach2]

Please. There is far more happening to make a google search index than what you are suggesting here.

I will grant that many are duplicates, but the facts don’t lie. There is another news source that the Burke fans here have not yet discovered which corroborates my statement…he indeed strives to be very public and doesn’t let any grass grow under his toes.

 

[simple_soul]

Robert Bay will let you know.

Did I do something wrong? This kind of reads like a threat or something.

 

[estesbob]

Did I do something wrong? This kind of reads like a threat or something.

It was a general comment.

 

[simple_soul]

I love Pope Francis. Of course the Pope Francis I love is the Pope-not the Pope Francis as portrayed by the secular media. I believe that most of this alleged conflict between Cardinal Burke and the Pope is driven by people who do not have the best interests of the Church at heart.

And this post alone could be taken the same way.

 

[simple_soul]

Disagreement:
I disagree with X because of rational argument Y and Z.

Venom:
X is a nut and is trying to destroy the Church.

ok, I’ll have to ponder and pray on that for a while to see if I understand it or see the distinction more clearly.

 

[sps49]

I will grant that many are duplicates, but the facts don’t lie. There is another news source that the Burke fans here have not yet discovered which corroborates my statement…he indeed strives to be very public and doesn’t let any grass grow under his toes.

The facts neither tell the truth or lie, they are what they are. So you found a “news source” that does not contradict your expectations; not convincing for your argument. You’ll have to do better much than vague insinuations and subtle sub textual hypothesis. I prefer to read the black part myself.

 

[Sirach2]

The facts neither tell the truth or lie, they are what they are. So you found a “news source” that does not contradict your expectations; not convincing for your argument. You’ll have to do better much than vague insinuations and subtle sub textual hypothesis. I prefer to read the black part myself.

If I name it, this forum will overflow with Burke threads by his supporters. However, I did find this article which further explains my statement (only one of many others, mind you, and also in many languages.)

Cardinal urges pope to take hot-button issues off table for next synod -
Addressing more than 300 delegates at the family and marriage conference in Limerick Nov. 15, U.S. Cardinal Raymond L. Burke said these issues had distracted the work of the synod in its first session in October. Warning that Satan was sowing confusion and error about matrimony, the cardinal patron of the Knights of Malta said, “Even within the church there are those who would obscure the truth of the indissolubility of marriage in the name of mercy.”

He urged the faithful to write to Pope Francis and Vatican and Irish church officials to make their views known.

And we see the fruits of this effort with the latest petition to Pope Francis. So he has not exactly been a mouse in a corner, but an elephant in the room, going so far as to resist Francis by asking for removal of certain topics dear to Burke’s heart. Is that supporting the Pope? The fact that he resists him is public knowledge.

 

[Brendan]

And we see the fruits of this effort with the latest petition to Pope Francis. So he has not exactly been a mouse in a corner, but an elephant in the room, going so far as to resist Francis by asking for removal of certain topics dear to Burke’s heart. Is that supporting the Pope? The fact that he resists him is public knowledge.

It is resistance only if you are operating under the assumption that Pope Francis desires any changes in those areas.

And even so, Pope John Paul II Christi Fidelis Laici noted that it was the duty of the faithful to make know their spiritual needs.

Are you claiming that Pope Francis is at odds with Pope John Paul II on this matter, that he has no desire for the faithful to make known their needs?

 

[twf]

They’re not even in the ballpark, twf. I’m sorry that our previous willingness to be congenial has taken wing again, as you continue to challenge me.

Do me a favor. Type ‘Cardinal Burke interviews’ on a google search line, and do the same for Kasper and Marx. The return for Burke, as one would expect, is 5,660,000, compared to Kasper’s 429,000. Who’s been foremost in asserting his beliefs?

And call upon Catholics, he surely did, beginning already very early this year …to the point of orchestrating petitions among his many efforts to change public opinion, authoring a voluminous book and arranging press conferences and other social media, ad infinitem.

As I said earlier, those who have eyes to see, will see. Those who don’t, never will, so it does not benefit me one iota to rebut these challenges, which are for the most part issued by pro-Burke ultra conservatives.

Asking questions is not “challenging” or the antithesis of being “congenial”. We don’t have to agree 100% to have cordial conversation nor does disagreement have to be taken as a challenge .
I think Burke has just been given a lot more press because it makes a good story. There are many other voices on both sides of the fence.

 

[Sirach2]

Are you claiming that Pope Francis is at odds with Pope John Paul II on this matter, that he has no desire for the faithful to make known their needs?

Pope Francis, most likely inspired by the Holy Spirit, summoned the Synod specifically as stated:

According to the Vatican, the Holy Father said at last week’s meeting that prominent themes such as family and matrimonial pastoral duties “will be the order of the day in the activity of the Church in the near future.” This is likely to include an examination of the Church’s pastoral approach to divorced and remarried Catholics in the Church — a subject often raised by Francis and Benedict XVI in the recent past.

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-calls-synod-on-the-family-evangelization#ixzz3RSP5QZFV

For Burke to request discontinuance of this subject in the October Synod is to oppose the Pope’s explicit direction, due to his own fears. Inciting the faithful to sign petitions and write letters is not my idea of support. Is it yours?

 

[Sirach2]

Asking questions is not “challenging” or the antithesis of being “congenial”. We don’t have to agree 100% to have cordial conversation nor does disagreement have to be taken as a challenge .
I think Burke has just been given a lot more press because it makes a good story. There are many other voices on both sides of the fence.

It wasn’t what you said, but the way that you said it. I envisioned your tone of voice and body language within your words. Let’s try again.

 

[Lapey]

And this post alone could be taken the same way.

I believe you are over thinking all of this. Bob is simply stating this;

Anything stated by Pope Francis = secular media portrays his words to lean more to the left politically

Anything stated by Cardinal Burke = secular media portrays his words to lean more to the right politically.

Furthermore, no matter what either of the men say it is spun to show a disagreement on issues. Both are held to uphold the truth, there is only one truth. Both do a very good job of speaking truth; we have a terrible inability to hear what is actually said and much of this lay at the feet of the press because of agenda driven reporting from both secular and religious outlets.

 

[sps49]

If I name it, this forum will overflow with Burke threads by his supporters. However, I did find this article which further explains my statement (only one of many others, mind you, and also in many languages.)

And we see the fruits of this effort with the latest petition to Pope Francis. So he has not exactly been a mouse in a corner, but an elephant in the room, going so far as to resist Francis by asking for removal of certain topics dear to Burke’s heart. Is that supporting the Pope? The fact that he resists him is public knowledge.

Complaining that it is difficult to back up your assertions is not going to cut it either. All I have heard in your posts is that you suspect he is up to something to undermine the Pope, but so far no evidence of this has been provided by your good self.

 

[Sirach2]

Complaining that it is difficult to back up your assertions is not going to cut it either. All I have heard in your posts is that you suspect he is up to something to undermine the Pope, but so far no evidence of this has been provided by your good self.

I don’t need to prove anything to you, my man. The bait isn’t working. As I said, prudence tells me to spare the moderator from a huge influx of threads if I dared to make this public.

 

[Sirach2]

Complaining that it is difficult to back up your assertions is not going to cut it either. All I have heard in your posts is that you suspect he is up to something to undermine the Pope, but so far no evidence of this has been provided by your good self.

Not difficult - just highly imprudent!

 

[Brendan]

Pope Francis, most likely inspired by the Holy Spirit, summoned the Synod specifically as stated:

According to the Vatican, the Holy Father said at last week’s meeting that prominent themes such as family and matrimonial pastoral duties “will be the order of the day in the activity of the Church in the near future.” This is likely to include an examination of the Church’s pastoral approach to divorced and remarried Catholics in the Church — a subject often raised by Francis and Benedict XVI in the recent past.

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-calls-synod-on-the-family-evangelization#ixzz3RSP5QZFV

For Burke to request discontinuance of this subject in the October Synod is to oppose the Pope’s explicit direction, due to his own fears. Inciting the faithful to sign petitions and write letters is not my idea of support. Is it yours?

The discussion of pastoral approaches are not what Cardinal Burke is objecting to. In fact, he is INSISTING on truly pastoral solutions. Ones that adhere to the teachings of the Church.

The admission of those who have divorced and remarried into a sexual relationship to Holy Communion would be damaging to their souls, so it makes sense for +Burke to desire to remove discussion of that from the Synod.

Likewise for recognition of homosexual relationships

What Pope Francis is calling for, as you noted, are pastoral solutions. Which cannot change teaching, but must seek to explain to teachings in the most effective way.

Which is EXACTLY what Cardinal Burke is calling for, discussions on how to arrive at the most effective way of explaining Church teachings in a way that it becomes fully accepted by those who have rejected it.

In other words, a pastoral solution.

 

[zz912]

So how does one know when a disagreement is considered venom or not?

Comparing Cardinal Burke to Judas is a good example in this thread.

Another is the anger at Cardinal Burke, and ONLY Cardinal Burke, for giving interviews and expressing opinions, when many other bishops and cardinals are doing the same.