What Catholic teachings do I object to?

[benjohnson]

I’m not saying ALL protestants are that way, but from my experience MOST protestants are like that.

Find better protestants!

And I think catholic children going to a LCMS Sunday School would be
confusing for the children involved.

We do have a few Catholic in our Sunday School now and then. but I was referring to the large population of Catholics in our elementary school. Here in Seattle, a traditional/conservative Catholic parent would do very well to send their children to an LCMS school knowing that they’ll come out of the process with their Catholic faith strengthened and their minds and hearts ready for the world. Some of local parish schools might as well be secular, sorry to say.

I believe in inter-faith dialogue,(especially about abortion.) but I believe on a layman level, that protestants are too close minded to drop their pre conceived notions.

I encourage it - it was my Catholic friends that opened my eyes to being pro-life.

Finally, as the ONE, TRUE, CHURCH I don’t believe that we need to change

our doctrine
but persuade protestants of the TRUTH of our faith.

God has granted you certainty - it is something to be thankful for! Proclaim the Gospel!

 

[jmcrae]

But the group least accepting to “xexnoi” is some, (not all or many) of the greeks.

The fact that there is even such a word proves my point.

 

[kwortham]

Not exactly. There are a lot of non-greek, non-slavic, non-arabic converts to Orthodoxy.
For example I was an american southwesterner who converted to Orthodoxy from the fundamental protetestant denomination that calls it’self the churches of Christ. There are many others as well.

I am out of that heretical sect, as well. They taught that Christ was too weak to keep His Church from falling. However, Stone and Campbell were strong enough to restore the “original” Church. The typical “church of Christ” prayer one hears is thus:

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. 12 I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.

I used to take pride in that I was not going to hell with all of the Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, Methodists & etc.

 

[Truthstalker]

Not exactly. There are a lot of non-greek, non-slavic, non-arabic converts to Orthodoxy.
For example I was an american southwesterner who converted to Orthodoxy from the fundamental protetestant denomination that calls it’self the churches of Christ. There are many others as well

But the group least accepting to “xexnoi” is some, (not all or many) of the greeks. But generally Orthodox get along quite well.

My present parish is at least %75 converts from Protestant and Catholic churches. Completely non-ethnic.

That’s true - the Orthodox have received a great many “Americans” and is changing in the US from being ethnically oriented to being more, um, non-ethnic. There have been cases of groups of formerly conservative Protestant churches going Orthodox. English is replacing the ethnic languages more and more as the old people pass away.

But a Catholic parish can have a Spanish service, and maybe a Polish-oriented one, but all are under the same hierarchy. One problem the Orthodox have yet to solve is organizational: you have overlapping dioceses and parishes. You can have a Russian church next to a Serbian one, but the Russian priest reports to say a bishop in Chicago and then to a patriarch in Moscow and the Serbian priest reports to say a bishop in Denver and then to a patriarch say in Belgrade. The Catholics enjoy the advantage of being under one patriarch; the Orthodox struggle with multiple jurisdictions. I really wonder how that is ever going to be solved. That of course has an easily-read and implied solution.

 

[benjohnson]

Only one real stickler: the Filioque. Other than that, I know of no doctrinal issues that separate us.

Possibly add: Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation , Cannon Law vs Obediance and Economia, Papal Infallibly/Universal Jurisdiction, Matrimony, Atonement vs Conquering Death, and Purgatory.

 

[andrewstx]

The fact that there is even such a word proves my point.

Xeno (sp) is a word used only by a few greeks. It means foriegner or outsider. I never heard that word in any Orthodox church. It actually came from hollywood in “MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING”.

 

[Truthstalker]

Xeno (sp) is a word used only by a few greeks. It means foriegner or outsider. I never heard that word in any Orthodox church. It actually came from hollywood in “MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING”.

Xenos is Greek for ‘foreign’. Perhaps you have not been around a Greek Orthodox church that is heavily Greek, as in the movie?

 

[andrewstx]

I am out of that heretical sect, as well. They taught that Christ was too weak to keep His Church from falling. However, Stone and Campbell were strong enough to restore the “original” Church. The typical “church of Christ” prayer one hears is thus:

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. 12 I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.

I used to take pride in that I was not going to hell with all of the Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, Methodists & etc.

Right, like every single person that existed before the “churches of Christ” were invented in 1906 is surely in H E double hockey sticks.

 

[andrewstx]

Xenos is Greek for ‘foreign’. Perhaps you have not been around a Greek Orthodox church that is heavily Greek, as in the movie?

True it is 200 miles to the closest greek parish from here. But I have been to the parish a few times and never heard anyone use the word. It is a heavily ethnic parish in a medium to small city.

The parish was established at the time of WWII when their was an air force base there, the base closed and the parish shrunk. After all Texas is strongly Baptist and church of Christ and now “non-denominational”.

 

[PRmerger]

There is a difference between the Orthodox and Catholic ideas of apostolic succcession. As I understand it the Catholic church sees AS as going through the Popes

No. Our bishops are successors to the Apostles. Not to Peter. Our pope is the succssor of Peter.

But when we talk about apostolic succession we are talking about, well, the Apostles. And that means the bishops of the Catholic Church today.

 

[PRmerger]

Possibly add: Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation , Cannon Law vs Obediance and Economia, Papal Infallibly/Universal Jurisdiction, Matrimony, Atonement vs Conquering Death, and Purgatory.

Actually, the Orthodox believe in all those things, save papal infalliblity (here, read supremacy).

As I said, the difference lies only in semantics.

 

[Cavaradossi]

The fact that there is even such a word proves my point.

What sort of fallacious argument is that? That’s like saying since we have the word foreigner in English, that Roman Catholics therefore do not admit non-Anglos.

I can tell you with complete certainty that the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is not closed to non-Greeks, because I am a member of the Archdiocese and I am not ethnically Greek, married to an ethnic Greek, or in any way whatsoever related to the Greeks aside from my Church affiliation. In fact, one of the priests at my parish is not Greek, but was a convert from Lutheranism. Similarly, I can confirm to you that the Russian Orthodox Church is not closed to non-Russians as the priest at the ROCOR parish in my city is not Russian, but was a convert from the Episcopal Church. You are writing about things which are clearly outside of the realm of your experience, and in so doing you have given people false information about Orthodoxy, which they might mistake for truth. Russian, Greek, Serbian, etc., refer not to the ethnicity that makes up a church, but the location of that Church’s hierarchy. The Russian Orthodox Church, for example serves people of all sorts of ethnicities within its territorial boundaries, like Slavs, Greeks, Abkhazians, Georgians, Kazakhs, Inuits, Japanese, and many more. The Orthodox Church is open to all ethnicities.

 

[joe370]

We’re all one family. Yeah, we fight often and many of us don’t get along. We disagree, and while that may be troubling for you it isn’t troubling for me. While doctrinal differences are real, at least we aren’t burning each other at the stake anymore. We can talk about our differences, and while this is messy and confusing I believe we have to talk about our similarities and our differences.

For a long time, Pentecostals cultivated this image of themselves as the Spirit filled church in contrast to the “dead” old line denominations. But then the Charismatic Movement began in the Catholic and Mainline Protestant churches. Pentecostals looked on in horror and confusion (but also vindication) as they began to see the Spirit move in the historic churches. They were horrified and confused because the old line churches were experiencing a move of the Spirit’s power that Pentecostals had known but without adopting all the Pentecostal doctrinal and cultural baggage. In the end, the Charismatic Movement helped the Pentecostal movement get rid of a lot of legalistic traditions that had developed, and it motivated them to take a look at what they believed and why they believed it. While Pentecostals didn’t get rid of everything that made them distinctive, they were challenged to acknowledge and reach out to parts of the Body of Christ that they had been estranged from.

I use the hard lessons that my own tradition had to (and in some quarters still trying to) learn, to illustrate how I believe the differences in the Body of Christ can work to perfect the church. I believe we need each other, and that we should all pray for unity. I have not the slightest idea how unity will happen, which is why we need to pray!

I appreciate your post and agree. However, you did not answer the question. You said that the HS continues to guide the church into a truth. Which church? Again, I of course do believe that God guides all Christians in terms of faith, but not doctrinal truth, obviously.

 

[jmcrae]

What sort of fallacious argument is that? That’s like saying since we have the word foreigner in English, that Roman Catholics therefore do not admit non-Anglos.

The word “foreigner” does not apply to persons converting to the Catholic faith as adults - and since there can be no “outside ethnic community” from which anyone could join the Catholic Church (since it is Catholic, and not Greek or Russian, or Scottish, or American) there is, in fact, no word that equates to “foreigner” in terms of people’s relationship to the Church, whether they convert as adults or are raised in the faith by their families.

 

[Truthstalker]

True it is 200 miles to the closest greek parish from here. But I have been to the parish a few times and never heard anyone use the word. It is a heavily ethnic parish in a medium to small city.

The parish was established at the time of WWII when their was an air force base there, the base closed and the parish shrunk. After all Texas is strongly Baptist and church of Christ and now “non-denominational”.

There is a HEAVILY Greek Orthodox Church not far from me. I’ve looked at their website and calendar and EVERY name is Greek. Except the pastor, formerly Protestant. All those Greek names and one English name, and he is the pastor! Ok, I thought it was funny. They have a Greek festival every year with great Greek food and you can tour the place and it’s very interesting. Wonderful bookstore. Probably I am a xena there.

 

[andrewstx]

No. Our bishops are successors to the Apostles. Not to Peter. Our pope is the succssor of Peter.

But when we talk about apostolic succession we are talking about, well, the Apostles. And that means the bishops of the Catholic Church today.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Cavaradossi]

The word “foreigner” does not apply to persons converting to the Catholic faith as adults - and since there can be no “outside ethnic community” from which anyone could join the Catholic Church (since it is Catholic, and not Greek or Russian, or Scottish, or American) there is, in fact, no word that equates to “foreigner” in terms of people’s relationship to the Church, whether they convert as adults or are raised in the faith by their families.

Firstly, in your Church, you do in fact have separate jurisdictions like the Syriac Catholic Church, the Coptic Catholic Church, the Melkite Catholic Church, the Ruthenian Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Catholic Church, etc., and people are canonically enrolled in one and only one of these Churches at one time (that is to say, a Ruthenian Catholic is not a Melkite or a Latin Catholic). Secondly, in both Orthodoxy and Catholicism, the name of the Church refers to where the hierarchy of that Church is primarily located, but not what ethnicity or nationality the “particular church” (to use the theological term employed by the Roman Catholic Church) serves. Again, this is clearly something beyond the realm of your experience, and it would be nice if you would stop spreading misinformation.

 

[benjohnson]

Actually, the Orthodox believe in all those things, save papal infalliblity (here, read supremacy).

As I said, the difference lies only in semantics.

We’ll it at least got one right!

Could you direct me to where the Othodox have agreed to the Catholic dogmas of the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, and Transubstantiation? Everything I’m seeing says otherwise:

orthodoxwiki.org/Immaculate_Conception
orthodoxwiki.org/Purgatory
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metousiosis

 

[PRmerger]

We’ll it at least got one right!

Could you direct me to where the Othodox have agreed to the Catholic dogmas of the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, and Transubstantiation? Everything I’m seeing says otherwise:

orthodoxwiki.org/Immaculate_Conception
orthodoxwiki.org/Purgatory
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metousiosis

Let me take transubstantiation.

Firstly, transubstantiation is a Latin word (or, at least, its root is Latin). So on its face, the Eastern church wouldn’t use a term like that.

Secondly, the only difference between the Catholic position and the Orthodox position is this: the Catholics say it happens through Transubstantiation. The Orthodox say: we don’t really know how it happens, and we’re good with that.

 

[benjohnson]

Actually, the Orthodox believe in all those things, save papal infalliblity (here, read supremacy).

As I said, the difference lies only in semantics.

We’ll it at least got one right!

Could you direct me to where the Othodox have agreed to the Catholic dogmas of the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, and Transubstantiation? Everything I’m seeing says otherwise:

orthodoxwiki.org/Immaculate_Conception
orthodoxwiki.org/Purgatory
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metousiosis