What Catholicism seems to be missing

[Karen107]

I’m amazed you actually heard a homily about the death penalty. I have NEVER heard 1. Rarely do priests talk about hot button issues that many Catholics wrongly support.

If I had to hinge my adherence to the catholic faith based on the quality of the homily, I’d be of another religion. But as other posters have so eloquently stated, the Mass is a special gift to us catholics and the Eucharist is the reason why we should attend daily!

The priests do speak on Hot Button Issues and will tell us to visit people in prison, or point out wrongs in the world, but they have to be careful not to overstep what is being said on a political nature during the mass. We’re there to worship God and it’s not a campaign office for any particular political candidate or else it’s not a Church anymore it’s a political office telling us who to vote for or not to vote for is a no no during mass. So remember the mass is about Jesus Christ and how we should live as Christians.

 

[phil19034]

My Archbishop once told us at a speech he was doing at our Archdiocese’s seminary that the top two complaints he receives from the Laity are (1) Bad Music and (2) Bad Homilies.

He said that he tells his Pastors all the time that if they fix both of those, then it would be a big help in the parishes.

But the truth is that not every Priest (or every Bishop) has the gift of public speech. Their gifts are different. In a Protestant Church (esp a Baptist or Fundamentalist one) preaches are hired by the local church. The ability to “preach” and the gift of public speech is a 100% requirement.

However, I do believe that the Catholic Church is getting better with this, but it will take time. Many younger priests have public speaking skills or training. Also we now have Permanent Deacons, which is still relativity new. My Parish has a Permanent Deacon who often gives Homilies and he has that “fire” you mention (sometimes I think he has too much fire and needs to tone it down a bit ). I know some parishes with 5+ Deacons with only 2-3 priests. I feel strongly that as more men become Deacons, you will see some who are great public speakers give more homilies. Also, it’s not uncommon for some of these protestant preachers to become Deacons if they convert to the Catholic Church.

I hope this makes sense.

God Bless.

 

[Karen107]

You know I have to say this about our Priests, they know their stuff… They may all be different in their approaches but they are very educated people about our faith. They are required to go to so much school. College, Grad school, they have doctorates in theology. At least like 8 to 10 years of college training. Many of them also are scholars and have had careers before they enter the priesthood and they bring that with them. I’ve learned so much from them! The Catholic religion has always had scholarly theologins, just look at St. Luke. He was a doctor/scholar and look how much he taught us about the faith. That’s at the heart of our Catholic faith… The Churches uses faith and reason to learn the truths of God and that’s what theology is all about. Not just one or the other, but both.

Not having much college myself, I probably could have worded this better but I’m sure others know what I"m talking about. Priests are a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips.

 

[GratefulFred]

As others above have said, the primary reason for participating in Mass is to hear the word God from the Bible, to change bread and water into the Body and Blood of Christ and to receive Him in Holy Communion. All this with appropriate prayers.

The homily is required to be an attempt to apply that day’s readings to our daily lives. Some priests and deacons are better homilists and some are worse. I agree, the Church needs to do a much better job in training them to be public speakers.

But , IMO, there are a couple of other dynamics at play. Not every homily I hear seems to apply to me. Many do, but not all. It is hard for a homilist to say things cogently that ALL in the congregation can relate to.

And I think, the elephant under the rug, is a fear that a strong clear homily may alienate many in the pews who would then go elsewhere with their donations the parish needs to operate with. Sadly, we live in an uptight world where too many are too ready to find fault and too quickly walk away. Many priests and deacons fear the loss of parishioners. So they tread lightly. Too lightly.

 

[Dorothy]

I have never heard a priest read his homily from a piece of paper. I can say that about 85% of the time I hear inspired homilies that help us to ponder what is expected of us.

 

[Karen107]

Here’s another thing to think about. How can one ‘listen’ for God when there’s always noise. Someone preaching at you, or revival music going on. To quote someone I think a Pope… God gave us two ears and one mouth so that we will listen more than we speak. And I also want to refer to the scripture where it says be still and know I am God. Just sit with Gods presence and feel God, smell God, see God, touch God, hear God… It’s all right there in the mass.

 

[Karen107]

I have never heard a priest read his homily from a piece of paper. I can say that about 85% of the time I hear inspired homilies that help us to ponder what is expected of us.

I heard one priest say that he was taught that if he stands behind a pulpit for a homily it is a crutch. lol… well some do and some don’t… I love it when they come out a little bit and really talk to us…I don’t hear them much ask us to speak I think because of the time factor or the size of our congregation, but lately one does, and that’s kind of nice…

 

[Karen107]

And I think, the elephant under the rug, is a fear that a strong clear homily may alienate many in the pews who would then go elsewhere with their donations the parish needs to operate with. Sadly, we live in an uptight world where too many are too ready to find fault and too quickly walk away. Many priests and deacons fear the loss of parishioners. So they tread lightly. Too lightly.

I have seen it, where the priest spoke on an issue and several people walked right out of the mass feeling as if he were talking about them… It happens…

 

[Cricket2]

Worry less about passion and more about truth. Is what you are hearing the truth?

Passion is temporary, truth is everlasting.

 

[fred_conty]

My Archbishop once told us at a speech he was doing at our Archdiocese’s seminary that the top two complaints he receives from the Laity are (1) Bad Music and (2) Bad Homilies.

He said that he tells his Pastors all the time that if they fix both of those, then it would be a big help in the parishes.

I happen to agree with the bishop.

The best salesmen I have heard, all had a deep belief in their product and conveyed this to me to get the sale. And if they weren’t convenced, then I wasn’t either.

 

[johnnyc176]

Catholicism is missing nothing as it contains the fullness of the Truth. The Catholic Church needn’t become more protestant in order to make you feel better. The Truth should suffice. Why would you want to listen to 15 to 30 minutes of what most likely is a portion of the Truth and at times bashing the One True Church. However if you would like to hear some faithful Catholic homilies check out this site…

audiosancto.org/

 

[Robyn_p]

I sometimes wonder if bad preaching is a Church-wide phenomenon or more of a cultural one? I only say this because most of the American or European priests I’ve heard are like how you described. Just kind of dry and uninspiring. Though there have been good ones here and there, Fr. Robert Barron from Word on Fire is one that comes to mind. Now there’s a priest who’s excited to talk about Jesus.

Whereas almost every single priest from India or Africa or Latin America I’ve met has been on fire for the gospel. They’re sermons are meaningful and inspiring and almost always got me re-evaluating my life.

I can’t figure out why this is. Maybe being raised in a country where Christianity isn’t the cultural religion has something to do with it?

But I actually agree with your overall point. Yes, like others have pointed out, the homily isn’t the main focus of the Mass, the Eucharist is. But still, for most Catholic’s, the only exposure to the gospel is the one hour they’re at Church on Sundays. And if the preaching isn’t inspiring them to a deeper relationship to Christ during that hour, how will they ever grow in that?

Maybe in the old days the homily didn’t need to be primarily focused on evangelizing the congregation, but now we desperately need it! Most Catholics have been sacramentalized but never evangelized, never really experienced Christ or even really understand why they need a savior. And then we wonder why they leave when they hear a truncated version at a Protestant service. Because they’ve never heard the message at all! There’s no deficiency in the teaching, but our presentation is lacking.

This is really what Pope Francis keeps talking about, recovering the joy and zeal of the apostles. We have so much as Catholics, there’s no reason to not be excited and passionate about it.

 

[Amandil]

Several of the responses had a similar statement to the quote above. Out of curiosity, what in my post led you to believe I was talking about being entertained ? Why would “passionate preaching of the gospel” = entertainment in your mind ?

Because I’m a former evangelical protestant myself and that is a common misconception that the Mass ought to be like the church services they used to attend. In your case I may be mistaken. If so I apologize.

I’ve encountered it so often that it’s rare that I find the contrary. Forgive me.

I’m talking about being absolutely broken hearted over the state of mankind, and just beside oneself over the fact that there is good news for them, and an urgency to preach it. Much like Paul in Romans 9 where he says “I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people…”
Paul was so anguished for the lost that he could wish that he himself would be cut off from Christ and lost forever, if only others would be saved!

I understand that the sacrifice of the Mass is the focal point of our gathering as Catholics. That’s a fair point. But here is the problem as I see it… The early Christians did NOT simply come together to share in communion. They layed down everything to preach to the lost, under pain of horrific death.
Seems to me that the Protestants have lost their way in neglecting the former in favor of being hyper focused on the latter… While Most Catholics seem to have lost the way in almost completely neglecting the latter in favor of being content with the Mass alone.

Priest preaching homilies are not preaching to the lost. The focus of homilies are to edify and challenge people already saved.

St. Francis is famous for this quote: “Preach the gospel at all times, and when necessary use words.”

I think that its a mistake to interpret the limitation of a priest’s ability to give an eloquent and inspired homily as ignorance, indifference, or lack of enthusiasm for the gospel or the problem for those in his parish who don’t attend regularly.

I’m part of a program here in the St. Louis archdiocese called the Lay Formation Program. Archbishop Robert Carlson gave a great talk one Saturday morning and in that talk he specifically said that our priests need us to be better priests. The purpose of the program is that after a lengthy period of deep spiritual formation and discernment we then take our experience and the prompting of the Spirit back to our parish in order to assist the priest and the parish through or gifts.

The point of my sharing this was that is that maybe your parish priest is praying and hoping that some parishioner may be inspired or called by the Spirit to use their particular gifts for the needs of the parish and the Church. Maybe the Holy Spirit has lit a fire in you for the need of your priest, and I think that it would be a great idea to share this with your priest. Tell him of your concerns, I’m sure that he shares them. Not so that you could preach homilies so to speak, but maybe you could, with his guidance, begin a parish outreach to those who you are concerned about. And maybe your gifts may in turn inspire him.

As far as it being a Church-wide problem. I’m just don’t see it as such. It’s that traditionally the Mass has always been deemed an extremely solemn event. Emphasis has usually been on the awe of God and Christ’s presence in the Eucharist.

 

[CreekCrawler]

Priest preaching homilies are not preaching to the lost. The focus of homilies are to edify and challenge people already saved.

St. Francis is famous for this quote: “Preach the gospel at all times, and when necessary use words.”

Your first point in the above quote has been made by others here. Why would you assume everyone in the Parish is “saved” ? That is a horrible assumption to make… especially by a Priest!!!
To the second point… ST. FRANCIS NEVER SAID THAT. I absolutely hate that “quote”, as every time I bring up evangelization to a Catholic this is ALWAYS what they say. Imagine the Apostles believing this nonsense… Christianity wouldn’t have made it out of the first 10 years.

But I actually agree with your overall point. Yes, like others have pointed out, the homily isn’t the main focus of the Mass, the Eucharist is. But still, for most Catholic’s, the only exposure to the gospel is the one hour they’re at Church on Sundays. And if the preaching isn’t inspiring them to a deeper relationship to Christ during that hour, how will they ever grow in that?
… Most Catholics have been sacramentalized but never evangelized, never really experienced Christ or even really understand why they need a savior. And then we wonder why they leave when they hear a truncated version at a Protestant service. Because they’ve never heard the message at all!..:

Exactly !

 

[Amandil]

Your first point in the above quote has been made by others here. Why would you assume everyone in the Parish is “saved” ? That is a horrible assumption to make… especially by a Priest!!!

It is based upon the fact that they have been Baptized and that they are attending Mass and receiving the Eucharist, OR are attending RCIA(and thus desire baptism).

Are you sure that you understand what it means to be baptized?

To the second point… ST. FRANCIS NEVER SAID THAT. I absolutely hate that “quote”, as every time I bring up evangelization to a Catholic this is ALWAYS what they say. Imagine the Apostles believing this nonsense… Christianity wouldn’t have made it out of the first 10 years.

And on who’s authority do you make that assertion?

Mine come from a professor of Church history at Kenrick-Glennon Seminary, Fr. Michael Witt.

 

[CreekCrawler]

And on who’s authority do you make that assertion?

Mine come from a professor of Church history at Kenrick-Glennon Seminary, Fr. Michael Witt.

There is no link between St Francis or any other Saint and that quote… and if any professor is connecting the two he is doing so without any primary source.

 

[CreekCrawler]

It is based upon the fact that they have been Baptized and that they are attending Mass and receiving the Eucharist, OR are attending RCIA(and thus desire baptism).Are you sure that you understand what it means to be baptized?

So in your theology, as long as you are baptized and go to Mass you are saved… interesting.

This is why we need better preaching !!!

 

[Amandil]

There is no link between St Francis or any other Saint and that quote… and if any professor is connecting the two he is doing so without any primary source.

So that means at best you can say that its “disputed”, according to the historical critical method.

So to make any absolute statement that Francis didn’t say it doesn’t follow. Its an argument from silence.

There is no link to the word Trinity found is the Bible, yet is it safe to assume that you believe in the Trinity? How do you know if it’s not in the Bible?

I’ll answer for you: Sacred Tradition.

 

[YADA]

As many have already pointed out - the focus of Catholic Worship is not on the Preaching or the Homily - but in the Liturgy of the Word - hearing God’s Word proclaimed aloud - our heart and minds fed … and in the Liturgy of the Eucharist - Family Table Fellowship being fed literally with the Body and Blood of our Lord.

The Homily bridges the two parts of the Mass. In the Catholic Christian tradition - Homilies and Protestant Sermons are not the same nor interchangeable …

They actually relate to the scriptures differently …

A Homily is meant to assist the assembly in understanding the scriptures read at Mass during the Liturgy of the Word and make them relevant in the hear an now.

A Sermon starts with a proposition / position and uses Scriptures to support the premise for the assembly.

One reason that many Protestant Preachers are very animated, on fire and dynamic is the freedom to preach on any scripture they choose. When you can focus your preaching only on the areas of great interest to you or only upon the passages with which you are most familiar you are preaching to your strengths … Also - many churches stay on themes that are near and dear to the congregations.

The mainline Liturgical Churches and Catholics follow a Cycle of readings … how strict those cycles are in the Presbyterian, Lutheran or Episcopalian churches - I have no clue … but for Catholic Clergy - they have no leeway to deviate from the Cycle except for those few days in the Liturgical calendar when there are options to choose from …

The average Protestant Preacher also preaches once a week - at one service -I imagine that its easier to prepare and to preach once a week on a topic that you are perhaps free to choose …

The Catholic Church celebrates a Mass every day of the year except Good Friday and there is still a Liturgical celebration on that day - a Communion Service with Veneration of the Cross …

Thus many parishes offer Mass nearly every day - if there is a priest celebrant …

At my primary parish - we have Mass [or if no priest a Communion Service] Monday through Friday at 6:30 AM and Monday through Saturday at 8:15 AM, Wednesday School Mass at Noon. For the Sunday - we start with a Vigil Mass on Saturday at 5:00 PM and then Sunday at 7:30AM, 9:00 AM, 11:00 AM and 5:00 PM - That is a lot of Homilies … 7 homilies prepared each week - multiple deliveries - even when shared among our clergy.

At my other parish - rural and very poor - with only one priest - they have Mass 4 of the five weekday mornings at 9:00 AM - a Vigil Mass at 4:00 PM on Saturday and a 10:00 AM Mass on Sunday … that same priest offers Mass very Sunday at noon at a mission church and twice a month offers a Spanish Mass on Saturday at 7:00 PM … again - that is one priest preparing 5 homilies each week.

And you may find this interesting - from Wikipedia [yes- not the best source but I don’t have my references on homiletics here where I am]

The word homily is derived from the Greek word homilia (from homilein), which means to have communion or hold verbal intercourse with a person. In this sense homilia is used in 1 Corinthians 15:33. In Luke 24:14, we find the word homiloun, and in Acts 24:26, homilei, both used in the sense of “speaking with”. Origen was the first to distinguish between logos (sermo) and homilia (tractatus). Since Origen’s time homily has meant, and still means, a commentary, without formal introduction, division, or conclusion, on some part of Sacred Scripture, the aim being to explain the literal, and evolve the spiritual, meaning of the Sacred Text. The latter, as a rule, is the more important; but if, as in the case of Origen, more attention be paid to the former, the homily will be called expository rather than moral or hortatory. It is the oldest form of Christian preaching

 

[Amandil]

So in your theology, as long as you are baptized and go to Mass you are saved… interesting.

This is why we need better preaching !!!

Better preaching? Seriously?

Well, whatever, if you say so…

FYI: duly noted that you didn’t answer my question as to what Baptism actually does.