What caused Mary to die?

[Montrose]

Is my understanding correct, then, that the lack of definition regarding the Dormition of the Theotokos only applies to Latin Catholics, and not those from Eastern-rite Churches?

I am saying for Latin Catholics the Church allows them to believe that Mary died or did not die because the church has no teaching on it. If Eastern Catholics believe Mary died I don’t see any issue with that because the Church has no teaching on this.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

I’m what you’d call a Latinized Ukrainian Greek Catholic. When my siblings and I were little, we learned the Latin version of the Hail Mary, Act of Contrition (which I still use) and Guardian Angel prayer. Most of my books are traditional RC books, although I do have a nice collection of EC books and a few EO books.

I’m still learning about Eastern theology and imo, some things are complementary to Scholastic theology and others baffle me.

In every Liturgy, we commemorate “…our most holy, immaculate, most blessed and glorious Lady, the Mother of God and Ever-Virgin Mary.” Yet we are not supposed to profess the Immaculate Conception because it’s based on the Western teaching of St. Augustine re original sin.

The dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption are inextricably linked. As I previously posted, since death is the punishment for sin (that’s in the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans), it stands to reason that since She had no sin therefore She could not die.

I love the Byzantine Tradition but quite frankly the Latin Tradition has given the whole Church, East and West, some good things too.

Personally, I see no problem. As one of the Saints put it: it is safer to attribute to Mary whatever is more excellent. (It’s in The Glories of Mary.)

 

[Isaac14]

If Eastern Catholics believe Mary died I don’t see any issue with that because the Church has no teaching on this.

Just to push the limits to make sure I understand correctly, if hypothetically speaking, the Latin church were to define that Mary never died, then the Eastern churches would then not be free to believe that Mary died?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The Catholic Church is one church. If it officially adopts a teaching and states that all Catholics must believe it, then all Catholics must believe it, whether Eastern or Western.

 

[Isaac14]

I thought it was 20-some churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t know the exact number but that sounds approximately correct.

I also doubt that the “Latin Church” would make some pronouncement of adopting a teaching without fully considering the theological position of, and effect of the pronouncement upon, the Eastern churches. No one wants a schism.

 

[Isaac14]

For sure.

I’m likely being a bit overly sensitive, but it seems in some of the above, that the millennia+ liturgical hymnography of the East regarding the Dormition doesn’t seem to count for much in discussing the question. It’s surprising that such tradition doesn’t count as a “teaching” of the Church.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The problem as I see it is that it’s up against Blessed John Duns Scotus, who developed the doctrine of the Assumption and whose theology is revered by many in the West.

Also remember that once you get below perhaps bishop level, the average Western Catholic probably doesn’t have a clue about the Eastern Churches, or the fact that Eastern Catholics are in communion with Rome, or what they believe, etc.

Having said that I found it odd that my Roman Catholic Holy Land tour didn’t include a stop at the Church of the Dormition and I wondered if it was because the priests didn’t want to tackle the thorny question of whether or not Mary actually died before she was assumed.

Of course we didn’t see the Tomb of Mary either.

 

[Anesti33]

It’s surprising that such tradition doesn’t count as a “teaching” of the Church.

It is considered a teaching, but some people are trying to twist the definition of “teaching” into “definition” or “infallible” that excludes theological opinion.

 

[BornInMarch]

Assuming that we choose to believe that she actually did undergo bodily death, we have no idea what exactly she died of, and there is no official teaching on it, especially since there’s no official teaching that she even died in the first place. Mary would have been considered an elderly lady by the lifespan standards of her day, and could have died of all kinds of natural causes.

If we assume the Immaculate Virgin died, we can also assume it wasn’t by murder or execution. If the Virgin Mary was martyred then you better believe the Church Fathers would have made sure everybody knew about it.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yes, I’ve never met anyone who thought she did not have a peaceful and happy end of life.

I am sure God would have granted her that grace, also that St. John and all the other Christians around her would have given their lives to protect her if it came to that, which it apparently did not.