What causes a house to be haunted?

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Some people treat the Catholic faith more like superstition or magic rather than a way to do God’s will and be close to God.

Yes and I would even extend this to Christianity in general.

There seems to be a lot more rhetoric like “if I serve God He will give me stuff “, which is the reverse of “God is mean/doesn’t exist because He didn’t give me stuff”.

Srsly. Where does this idea that God owes us stuff even come from?

(But that would be a thread if it’s very own)

 

[Anne1964]

Possession is rare. Obsession, where an evil spirit influences one’s thoughts is not all that rare. Fr. Ripperger estimates 20% of the US population suffers from obsession.

In the threads I see two extremes: every unexplained event or experience is demonic or nothing can be attributed to the demonic.

The devil’s best trick is to convince people he doesn’t exist.

While I agree that people should not focus too much on demonic activity and there is no reason to attribute every unexplained event to such activity, I think it is important for people to be well informed on this topic.

I knew nothing about demonic activity and spiritual attacks until it happened to me. Had I been better informed I might have recognized what was happening sooner.

I don’t discuss what happened very often but I did have a conversation with our diocesan exorcist (who was my pastor at the time) and he verified that what I experienced was demonic. He gave me great advice on how to deal with it.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Thanks for the thoughtful response:

In pointing fingers at my purported “generalization”, you injected your own generalization by suggesting that being realistic and calm is “discounting or minimizing the devil’s abilities”. This is hardly the case. Articles I have read on exorcism all say that the vast majority of cases of alleged possession or demonic attack that the exorcists look into turn out to have some natural cause, often a mental illness. Only a tiny number involve actual demonic possession or attack.

I made no generalization about being realistic and calm. It’s a non sequitur. It’s true that only a small number of people seeking an exorcism are possessed. This thread is
not about possession. That’s a strawman.

The fact that the devil has the power to drive people into such states of heightened anxiety testifies to his power. However, the point people miss is that God has the greater power, and it is further not necessary to keep doing certain rituals over and over or constantly watching out for alleged demonic signs in order to stay safe. We had a thread yesterday discussing how someone from another forum thought blessed salt needed to be sprinkled on all food to remove possible curses and that the reason we say grace is to remove curses from food. This is an example of somebody going way too far, and it’s not an isolated example.

I’ve not seen evidence on this thread of people driven into states of high anxiety. I’m sure it happens. The evidence on this thread is that people who have a strong concern about the devil have a stronger belief that God is the greater power. For example, the man and his wife who returned to the Church and the poster who was saved by the priest. Anything can be taken to an extreme. Adding salt to all food is probably an example. I will add that prayer can have many effects. Blessing food would probably remove a curse if a curse was present.

There is a reasonable medium/ moderate position where one recognizes that the devil exists in the world but also does not let his heart be troubled by it. If there is a problem, call the priest and he will deal with it. I do agree that some people do have a genuine problem with demonic oppression or infestation, but it’s a relatively small group and a lot of them don’t talk about it all the time. Also, while as you say many saints have had to deal with demons who were attacking them because of their great holiness, the vast majority of people are not at the level of holiness of a saint and are more likely to be “attacked” by the devil simply tempting them to commit ordinary sins, rather than by paranormal attacks.

My point in mentioning diabolic attacks on saints was that a lack of faith in God’s protection didn’t lead to their attacks. God permits demonic attacks. One’s “level of holiness” is not the determining factor.

I realize I’m likely talking to the wall here.

Tis__Bearself meet wall. Wall - Tis_Bearself

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’ve not seen evidence on this thread of people driven into states of high anxiety.

I’m not just talking about this thread. I’m talking about many discussions on this forum, other Catholic forums and social media, and in person, that I have experienced, read, or had other people mention to me.

The world of Catholic discussion is not confined to CAF.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Possession is rare. Obsession, where an evil spirit influences one’s thoughts is not all that rare. Fr. Ripperger estimates 20% of the US population suffers from obsession.
…

While I agree that people should not focus too much on demonic activity and there is no reason to attribute every unexplained event to such activity, I think it is important for people to be well informed on this topic.

There is a significant question whether Fr. Ripperger (and Fr. Amorth) have actually caused people to be “well informed”.

On the plus side, I have occasionally watched/ listened to/ read useful material by Fr. Ripperger on various subjects of Church teaching where he did not deviate from the orthodox teachings, and I have sometimes prayed the Auxiliorum Christianorum prayers.

On the minus side, he is also known for injecting a good bit of his own opinion into his discussions, and his opinion does not always express the view of the Church (for example, his opinions on women working outside the home). His main focus is the area of deliverance, spiritual warfare and exorcism, he runs an order focusing on this charism, and if your main tool is a hammer, then everything tends to look like a nail. The passage you quote is his own “estimate.” Based on what, who knows? Fr. Amorth similarly raised eyebrows with his estimates of things like how many exorcisms he personally had performed.

In an era when many if not most dioceses have their own exorcists, and there are a number of dioceses with orthodox, traditional bishops, one would expect that information people need to know about exorcism would come from these bishops, dioceses, and exorcists. And indeed sometimes there are feature stories in the news from a diocesan exorcist who is not much in the public eye but is speaking for one feature story; I find this information more interesting and credible because those priests are not trying to make demonic issues into their personal cottage industry within the Catholic community. One also wonders if many bishops and exorcists limit the amount of information shared because they realize people can be very suggestible and wish to avoid that pitfall.

The devil’s best trick is to convince people he doesn’t exist.

As I said in my last post, it’s quite possible for one to be convinced that the devil exists and that he does harm in the world, such as by tempting people to commit serious sins and by fomenting hate, division and anxiety - while one still takes some of the demonic paranormal focus with a grain of salt.

 

[MtnDwellar]

The world of Catholic discussion is not confined to CAF.

This statement is absolutely true, I’m not sure why you were compelled to make a point of it, I mentioned in my post that evidence of your claims weren’t apparent on this thread but, " I’m sure it happens." Of course I meant that it happens in settings outside of this thread

 

[MtnDwellar]

Catholicism is a rich faith. It’s full of teachings from priests, bishops, lay people and popes which do not rise to the level of official teaching. The faithful are not bound to assent. One is free to take the teachings of Fathers Ripperger or Amorth with a grain of salt, but, let’s not over criticize those who place more value on them.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I stated my opinion. I don’t see how that’s “over criticizing” anyone.

Being a Catholic doesn’t mean you have to like or approve everything your fellow Catholics do that isn’t a requirement of the Church.

 

[FaithHopeCharity]

This hints that you have been attacked by demonic entities is that the case? God bless you if it is. I personally haven’t encountered demonic possessions in real life. But I am kinda young at 16 but who knows, I just hope it doesn’t happen to me. But if it does, hopefully I will have strength to take it on like a warrior of God haha. Let God rebuke all evil.

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[Dorothy]

Stay close to Our Lord Jesus Christ and His Blessed Mother. Pray and think of the mysteries of the Rosary. Allow the sacraments of the Church to sanctify you.

Nothing bad will happen to you if you keep trusting the Lord.

God bless you!

 

[Raxus]

Padre Pio was visited many times by souls serving out their Purgatories, asking him for his prayer to help release them sooner. Many of the people around him saw or heard these souls; one young monk was terrified when he saw a strange monk in his cell one night, who looked up at him and then disappeared.

When he told Padre Pio about it, Pio told him it was a soul serving out his sentence, as it were, and that he didn’t need to be afraid, as he wouldn’t see the ghost again.

While I think the diabolical can be a source of such things, I think a lot of the stories out there are of those souls that need our prayer to be on their way to God.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Perhaps the same way Hillary Clinton estimated that 50% of Trump supporters are deplorables???

 

[Dan_Defender]

Do you believe the devil can influence the free will of a person (the atheist) by “sending” an atheist?

Yes, they influence those weak in faith. I have seen their work of persuasion, and it is indeed the power of darkness.

 

[Inquisitor85]

I always find this topic fascinating, but it always reminds me that I’ll never make head nor tail of religion in anything other than a purely academic sense.

Outside of that I have nothing more to add, so carry on.

 

[frumacat]

Read Hauntings, Possessions, and Exorcisms by Adam C. Blai. Great little book on all these questions. The author is a Church appointed expert in exorcism. He trains many priests in this ministry and works for the Diocese of Pittsburgh.

In short, a true ghost can only be a soul in purgatory seeking prayers. Anything else, anything that tries to draw you into deeper conversation or interaction, is most likely a demon trying to deceive you. Demons can manifest in places for all sorts of reasons, from curses to someone playing with an ouija board to involvement with black magic.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

God allows angels to be present in the world as well. The Church teaches that we each have a unique personal guardian Angel who remains close to us through life. That’s a lot of angels right there. And there are many stories of angels directly helping in one’s life. Some saints could see their guardian angels, and in some cases when this gift was present from the saint’s childhood, they were surprised to find out everybody couldn’t see their angels.

It is our free will choice whether we choose to turn more towards the guidance of our angel, or focus on wandering demons that try to mess with us.

 

[Raxus]

In short, a true ghost can only be a soul in purgatory seeking prayers. Anything else, anything that tries to draw you into deeper conversation or interaction, is most likely a demon trying to deceive you. Demons can manifest in places for all sorts of reasons, from curses to someone playing with an ouija board to involvement with black magic.

This is generally what I get out of the research, too.

Some folks who study such things on the scientific end, like parapsychologists, suggest that what some folks experience in terms of stuff like household objects flying around and rapping noises, might be a natural effect of an energy that’s as yet undetected but can be manipulated in some form or fashion by humans, too. There’s not really a central thesis to such speculation yet, but it’s interesting stuff to ponder.

 

[DeSales111]

Sorry it took so long to respond, too much work. There is no doubt it was a demonic attack. It attacked twice that night and for several minutes. The only thing I could do was pray, or at least try to, as it somehow was scrambling my prayers. Finally during the second attack a variation of what I now know as Psalm 23 came out of my mouth, and just like that the attack ended. We spent the next couple of days in shock, we were so changed we did not even want to watch a PG movie. Our carefree party lifestyle was done. I found myself at Mass first chance I got Monday morning, and as I sat behind everyone else that morning in fear, guess what the Gospel was? It was Jesus casting out the demons into the swine. Then it got even more dramatic. When it came time for the homily the priest walked down from the pulpit and into the middle aisle. He stopped right in front of me and looked me dead in the eyes. This is what he said to me…“You better believe demons are real!” He had no way to know what had happened, I have no doubt the Holy Spirit led him to deliver that message to me. Believe me when I say point taken, loud and clear.

You are young, never do like I did by walking away from my faith at your age. Never let the secular world draw you in with all its false treasures. We reaped what we sowed, and we are darn lucky (blessed) to have survived the attack. Just stay faithful to our Lord and let His mother be a big part of your life, after all it is her heal that crushes the head of the serpent.

 

[DeSales111]

The attack was caused by a few things. Our lifestyle at the time, curiosity by my wife in the paranormal world, and us living without faith. We had the wrong type of friends, listened to the wrong kind of music, and watched inappropriate things. Everything we did then opened the door for the attack. The demon (or demons) kept doing more and more to get my wife more interested, then things started turning darker, the whistling noises, her name being called, etc. It was a horrible situation to say the least.

 

[FaithHopeCharity]

May I first say that I am so happy for your conversion to the Christ through the Church and Mary! I have said this a few times on this forum but I think its worth mentioning again. I used to live a sinful life myself about two years back. I was involved with sexual sin, also had bad friends, and overall just lived a life where my main goal was to impress everyone but the Lord. But the Lord came to me in a way I cannot explain which led me into a prayerful life (especially through Mary). And through this prayerful life, I was able to break many addictions that plagued me life for much of my teenage life. I am doing so much better at the moment, although I am still trying to further purify myself as some minor, yet still present bad habits stay with me. So it has been slow process, but I’m getting there haha

But your story is a really good example of why the Lord allows the devil and his demons to effect the physical world. I think without this experience, you would have kept your ways of the past. And in saying this, I think this is where the topic of discussion comes in. The devil can effect us in the physical world, but only we can effect and change our spiritual life. It is a good reminder to the devil that he is better off tempting us then making us scared if him haha.

All in all, I’ll keep you in my prayers that you may stay and become fuller in the presence of the Lord and his most Blessed Mother.

Dominus Vobiscum