What causes the rich to abuse the poor?

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Sigh, I give up.
Bubba Switzler said:
You’re going to cite Oprah as a symbol of capitaistic excess?
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I think the main problem i have with our discussions is my imprsssion that you are not paying attention to what I am saying. I did *not *cite Oprah as a symbol of capitalistic excess; I was bringing up that economies of scale and maximization of profit are not the end-all and be-all of every business owner. Some want to make fine products that others will pay a premium for, and they are not particularly interested in becoming the next Bill Gates. This is what I was talking about, not capitalistic excess.

It is just too much effort to discuss something with someone who is not paying attention.
 
SamH said:
Actually the poor abuse the rich. The rich pay for public improvements and services all out of proportion to their individual benefit.
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It is even easier to say that the poor abuse the poor. How often do the rich have their limos driven to a poor neighborhood so they can commit robberies, burglaries, rape, and have shootouts with the local gang?

Who is more abused than the poor child whose parents choose drugs over the necessities of life for their children? Why does any woman give more than the time of day to a man she knows does not support the children he has already?
 
SamH said:
Actually the poor abuse the rich. The rich pay for public improvements and services all out of proportion to their individual benefit.
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Actually this is false. The poor don’t make the rich pay more in taxes. That is done by other rich people. These rich people are also elected by upper income and middle class people.

Also, it is not necessarily clear that the rich benefit from the government in the same proportion that the poor do. After all, the poor don’t benefit from the Securities and Exchange Commission, but rich people certainly do. Also, our legal system is primarily high income people suing other high income people. So the wealthy may disproportionately benefit from that system as well.
 
Robert_Sock said:
What would it take for EVERYBODY to live comfortably?
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This is not a worthy goal for Catholics.

A better social goal would be for “everybody” to reach their full potential. But even that leaves much to br desired.

Ask, instead, how can you help those around you, those you know best, reach their full potential.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
This is not a worthy goal for Catholics.

A better social goal would be for “everybody” to reach their full potential. But even that leaves much to br desired.

Ask, instead, how can you help those around you, those you know best, reach their full potential.
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Reaching one’s full potential is also not a worthy goal for Catholics–it is too vague and subject to any interpretation. What the Church tells us is more specific: each person’s goal should be attain Heaven by increasing in holiness, and helping others to do the same.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Actually this is false. The poor don’t make the rich pay more in taxes. That is done by other rich people. These rich people are also elected by upper income and middle class people.

Also, it is not necessarily clear that the rich benefit from the government in the same proportion that the poor do. After all, the poor don’t benefit from the Securities and Exchange Commission, but rich people certainly do. Also, our legal system is primarily high income people suing other high income people. So the wealthy may disproportionately benefit from that system as well.
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So why do more than 50% of the people not pay taxes?
 
It is my opinion that the cause of poverty in the world is the scarcity of money. This, coupled with the fact that in the macro-economy, half of the work performed goes unpaid. So many people do little things like give each other rides, or walking the neighbor’s dog, and yet for most there is no monetary compensation.

Usury is the tool used to create scarcity. It’s designed into the system to being wealth to certain people, and keep others chasing after money for the things they need. If there were enough money to go around, poverty would cease to exist, or at least get redifined.

At any rate, here is a helpful online book that describes a monetary system designed to be implemented in local communities. It’s very well done and easy to read, and I thought it might be help people better understand the present monetary regime in place in the world.

ratical.org/many_worlds/cc/NMfHC/toc.html

Enjoy.

[Edit] – There are some weird religious ideas presented in the book as well. I suggest these be ignored, and concentrate instead on the mechanics of the money system as it’s presented.
 
Jozefo said:
It is my opinion that the cause of poverty in the world is the scarcity of money. This, coupled with the fact that in the macro-economy, half of the work performed goes unpaid.
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Isn’t it more the other way? To many people are being paid not to work at all? It drives down the value of work.
 
Jozefo said:
It is my opinion that the cause of poverty in the world is the scarcity of money. This, coupled with the fact that in the macro-economy, half of the work performed goes unpaid. So many people do little things like give each other rides, or walking the neighbor’s dog, and yet for most there is no monetary compensation.

Usury is the tool used to create scarcity. It’s designed into the system to being wealth to certain people, and keep others chasing after money for the things they need. If there were enough money to go around, poverty would cease to exist, or at least get redifined.

At any rate, here is a helpful online book that describes a monetary system designed to be implemented in local communities. It’s very well done and easy to read, and I thought it might be help people better understand the present monetary regime in place in the world.

ratical.org/many_worlds/cc/NMfHC/toc.html

Enjoy.

[Edit] – There are some weird religious ideas presented in the book as well. I suggest these be ignored, and concentrate instead on the mechanics of the money system as it’s presented.
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While there is a viable place for various currencies, including so-called local currencies, it is simply not the case that poverty is caused by too little money. Paper money, even gold, is an entirely arbitrary measure of the cost of goods and services.

The genuine scarcity is that of goods and services and, ultimately, time. Money is just a measuring stick.

The most pernicious way to harm the poor is to pump up the money supply because it inevitably goes first to those who are well connected. They get to spend the money at the older prices while the poor only see inflation.
 
SamH said:
Isn’t it more the other way? To many people are being paid not to work at all? It drives down the value of work.
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I know it seems like that, but we have to ask how it is that people are getting put on the public dole in the first place. They’re falling below the threshold, and qualifying for assistance so they can maintain at least a modest standard of living. The State creates money and issues it to these people, which in turn corrupts production of wealth in the economy, making dollars scarce again, and driving more people onto the public dole. It’s a vicious circle.

The answer is to allow people to produce wealth again, even those people who appear to have nothing to contribute, like disabled and elderly, and mothers with children. Even these people produce wealth, but they currently offer it for free into the economy. I think they ought to have the opportunity of being compensated.

That’s why I’m advocating local mutual credit exchange trading systems. It gives people the opportunity to produce wealth, while taking pressure off the State to support them.
 
SamH said:
Then why is obesity such a problem for the poor?
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Obesity isn’t just a problem for the poor. Also, when you can only afford heavily-processed fake food because the “real stuff” is too expensive to buy, you eat it and get fat or starve.

EDIT: I can scarcely believe you even “went there”. I am rather in shock.
 
SamH said:
Isn’t it more the other way? To many people are being paid not to work at all? It drives down the value of work.
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No-one in their sane mind would wish to subsist entirely on government care. It’s a sub-standard, demeaning way of living.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
While there is a viable place for various currencies, including so-called local currencies, it is simply not the case that poverty is caused by too little money. Paper money, even gold, is an entirely arbitrary measure of the cost of goods and services.

The genuine scarcity is that of goods and services and, ultimately, time. Money is just a measuring stick.

The most pernicious way to harm the poor is to pump up the money supply because it inevitably goes first to those who are well connected. They get to spend the money at the older prices while the poor only see inflation.
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No, not pump up the money supply. That would result in more scarcity, because money is presently created through lending at interest. Mutual credit, on the other hand, let’s people issue their own currency at no interest. People would have a more efficient money supply. I encourage you to at least skim through that book link I posted. This is being tried and succeeding in hundreds of local economies in the world. Search Ithaca Hours for a very successful one. Or WIR Bank in Switzerland.
 
Second reading
From a letter attributed to Barnabas
The way of light

Consider now the way of light; any man who is bent on reaching his appointed goal must be very careful in all he does. Now these are the directions that have been given to us for this journey: love your Creator; reverence your Maker; give glory to him who redeemed you when you were dead; be single-minded but rich in spiritual treasure; avoid those who travel down death’s highway; hate whatever is displeasing to God; detest all hypocritical pretense; do not abandon God’s commandments. Do not put on airs, but be modest in whatever you do; claim no credit for yourself. Plot no evil against your neighbor, and do not give pride an entrance into your heart.

Love your neighbor more than your own life. Do not kill an unborn child through abortion, nor destroy it after birth. Do not refrain from chastising son or daughter, but bring them up from childhood in the fear of the Lord. Do not set your heart on what belongs to your neighbor and do not give in to greed. Do not associate with the arrogant but cultivate those who are humble and virtuous.

Accept as a blessing whatever comes your way in the knowledge that nothing ever happens without God’s concurrence. Avoid duplicity in thought or in word, for such deception is a deadly snare.

Share with your neighbor whatever you have, and do not say of anything, this is mine. If you both share an imperishable treasure, how much more must you share what is perishable. Do not be hasty in speech; the mouth is a deadly snare. For your soul’s good, make every effort to live chastely. Do not hold out your hand for what you can get, only to withdraw it when it comes to giving. Cherish as the apple of your eye anyone who speaks to you of the word of the Lord.

Night and day you will bear in mind the hour of judgment; every day you will seek out the company of God’s faithful, either by preaching the word, earnestly exhorting them, ever considering how you can save souls by your eloquence, or else by working with your hands to make reparation for your past sins.

Never hesitate to give, and when you do give, never grumble; then you will know the one who will repay you. Preserve the traditions you have received, adding nothing and taking nothing away. The evildoer will ever be hateful to you. Be fair in your judgments. Never stir up dissension, but act as peacemaker and reconcile the quarrelsome. Confess your sins, and do not begin to pray with a guilty conscience.

Such then is the way of light.

Peace
 
Jozefo said:
No, not pump up the money supply. That would result in more scarcity, because money is presently created through lending at interest. Mutual credit, on the other hand, let’s people issue their own currency at no interest. People would have a more efficient money supply. I encourage you to at least skim through that book link I posted. This is being tried and succeeding in hundreds of local economies in the world. Search Ithaca Hours for a very successful one. Or WIR Bank in Switzerland.
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Local currencies are nothing new but the are no panacea; they were very popular during the great depression. However, one should be a little careful about holding local currencies. Local currencies have all the risks of fiat currencies and fewer safeguards.
 
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