What causes the rich to abuse the poor?

[Jozefo]

Local currencies are nothing new but the are no panacea; they were very popular during the great depression. However, one should be a little careful about holding local currencies. Local currencies have all the risks of fiat currencies and fewer safeguards.

That’s true, but why not use them if they become available in your community? I’ve been trying to get one off the ground, and it’s very difficult. I think it’s hard because the present money system enourages distrust. Everyone has been trained to be leery of their neighbor. I want to change that in the at least a small piece of the world.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

That’s true, but why not use them if they become available in your community? I’ve been trying to get one off the ground, and it’s very difficult. I think it’s hard because the present money system enourages distrust. Everyone has been trained to be leery of their neighbor. I want to change that in the at least a small piece of the world.

Trust has to be earned. People are rightfully leery of their neighbor because we live in a fallen world.

 

[Jozefo]

Trust has to be earned. People are rightfully leery of their neighbor because we live in a fallen world.

Well sure! But do you trust the Fed? I don’t.

 

[Jozefo]

I maintain that the chief reason there is so much distrust in the US, is because of the present money system. Everyone knows the currency is worthless. But we use it because there is no viable alternative. Mutual credit is a viable alternative, but it takes community participation and being willing to be accountable to one another.

Plus, usury is sinful. This would eliminate debt slavery, for the people using it.

 

[SamH]

Obesity isn’t just a problem for the poor. Also, when you can only afford heavily-processed fake food because the “real stuff” is too expensive to buy, you eat it and get fat or starve.

EDIT: I can scarcely believe you even “went there”. I am rather in shock.

Really - I thought you claimed there was a shortage of money to buy food. Now you admit they eat too much.

As for going there - why ignore the biggest health care issue in the US and the fact it is self inflicted?

 

[SamH]

No-one in their sane mind would wish to subsist entirely on government care. It’s a sub-standard, demeaning way of living.

What makes you say that? I see people that have made that choice every day of the week.

As documented:

washingtonexaminer.com/exography-many-disability-recipients-admit-they-could-work/article/2533626

Recipients of federal disability checks often admit that they are capable of working but cannot or will not find a job, that those closest to them tell them they should be working, and that working to get off the disability rolls is not among their goals.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Well sure! But do you trust the Fed? I don’t.

Knowing nothing further, I would trust the Fed further than a loal currency issuer.

I maintain that the chief reason there is so much distrust in the US, is because of the present money system. Everyone knows the currency is worthless. But we use it because there is no viable alternative. Mutual credit is a viable alternative, but it takes community participation and being willing to be accountable to one another.

Plus, usury is sinful. This would eliminate debt slavery, for the people using it.

You should ask yourself is that’s really the most effective thing you can do for others. In some case, people become “debt slaves” because they make poor choices about their money (e.g. consumer borrowing). In other cases because they have no alternative to build their business and they make decisions that turn out wrong (e.g. a farmer who loses his crop to draught and then his farm to the bank).

Ultimatey, credit is a function of payment due for goods and services provided. Instead of asking people to take your IOUs why don’t you work for theirs and use that as your local currency?

 

[estesbob]

Obesity isn’t just a problem for the poor. Also, when you can only afford heavily-processed fake food because the “real stuff” is too expensive to buy, you eat it and get fat or starve.

EDIT: I can scarcely believe you even “went there”. I am rather in shock.

And when Wal-Mart tries to move into a poor neighborhood so that can have jobs and buy the real stuff cheaper the Liberal Elite does everything that can to stop them

 

[Jozefo]

Knowing nothing further, I would trust the Fed further than a loal currency issuer.

You should ask yourself is that’s really the most effective thing you can do for others. In some case, people become “debt slaves” because they make poor choices about their money (e.g. consumer borrowing). In other cases because they have no alternative to build their business and they make decisions that turn out wrong (e.g. a farmer who loses his crop to draught and then his farm to the bank).

Ultimatey, credit is a function of payment due for goods and services provided. Instead of asking people to take your IOUs why don’t you work for theirs and use that as your local currency?

Every single one of us are debt slaves - even if completely out of debt - through the money creation system. If Bob borrows money at interest, every other person is affected because the money that will pay the interest payments does not yet exist. It has to come from more lending, or exploiting someone unfairly. Ultimately it drives people to the wayside. Usury is an assault on society.

Now your last question is excellent! I’ve done exactly that. But for an effective micro-economy I think there needs to be at least about 300 people offering goods and services. That way most of the things people need can be gotten in the micro-economy. It’s going to take a concerted effort, bringing in people from all walks of life that are willing to offer their goods and services, before it begins to look healthy.

 

[Least]

What causes the rich to abuse the poor?

What causes the poor to attribute their situation to the rich?

 

[Lochias]

Really - I thought you claimed there was a shortage of money to buy food. Now you admit they eat too much.

No, I damned well didn’t. Eating the wrong things does not equal eating too much.

As for going there - why ignore the biggest health care issue in the US and the fact it is self inflicted?

Ah, of course, self-inflicted by the poor. Your bias is obvious, and pathetic.

 

[Lochias]

Really - I thought you claimed there was a shortage of money to buy food. Now you admit they eat too much.

I claimed no such thing. Eating the wrong thing does not equate to eating too much. Don’t put words in my mouth.

As for going there - why ignore the biggest health care issue in the US and the fact it is self inflicted?

Because you make endless assumptions to fit your worldview that are not grounded in anything close to fact.

What makes you say that? I see people that have made that choice every day of the week.

As documented:

washingtonexaminer.com/exography-many-disability-recipients-admit-they-could-work/article/2533626

Many people would stand to lose more than they would gain by getting a low-paying job that would put them just above the level needed to receive assistance. When you’ve got a family to feed, you do what you have to. That does NOT mean that they enjoy the lifestyle, and is another baseless, biased assumption on your part.

 

[SamH]

I claimed no such thing. Eating the wrong thing does not equate to eating too much. Don’t put words in my mouth.
.

How do you gain weight if not by ingesting food? Only in America is the main desease of the poor obesity.

Because you make endless assumptions to fit your worldview that are not grounded in anything close to fact.

.

Obesity has a far-ranging negative effect on health. **Each year obesity-related conditions cost over 150 billion dollars and cause an estimated **300,000 premature deaths in the US.

stanfordhospital.org/clinicsmedServices/COE/surgicalServices/generalSurgery/bariatricsurgery/obesity/effects.html

You need to tell Standford they are wrong.

Many people would stand to lose more than they would gain by getting a low-paying job that would put them just above the level needed to receive assistance. When you’ve got a family to feed, you do what you have to. That does NOT mean that they enjoy the lifestyle, and is another baseless, biased assumption on your part.

Did you even read the report? And for the most part you repeated what I said - why work when the government pays you not to? Who said anything about enjoyment - besides you?

 

[hazcompat]

Peace

 

[Lochias]

How do you gain weight if not by ingesting food? Only in America is the main desease of the poor obesity.

nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/obe/causes.html

Amount of food eaten can be and is often a factor, yes…but really, that’s more a factor of the obese rich, who can afford lots of food. Environment, preexisting medical conditions, emotional conditions, and many other things can influence and cause obesity. Your bias is overwhelming, and I think you should take a step back and actually look at the issue.

You need to tell Standford they are wrong.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Your statement implies that they have no need to work when the government assists them. Clearly, you have never lived on government assistance, or else you’d realize what a hellish nightmare it actually is.

This is true!

 

[SamH]

Amount of food eaten can be and is often a factor, yes…but really, that’s more a factor of the obese rich, who can afford lots of food. Environment, preexisting medical conditions, emotional conditions, and many other things can influence and cause obesity. Your bias is overwhelming, and you need to take a step back and actually look at the issue…

Obesity is a HUGE issue among the US poor - in many states over 30% are obese - while the rich are actually the thinnest.

money.msn.com/family-money/does-being-poor-make-you-fat.aspx

Your statement implies that they have no need to work when the government assists them. Clearly, you have never lived on government assistance, or else you’d realize what a hellish nightmare it actually is.

My statement implies nothing - it clear states what I intend to say.

I’ve never lived on government assistance because I’ve always worked - even when I was “too young” to work. I actually work with foster children (currently have 2 - have had 13 others in the past) and I am an educational advocate for disadvanteged children so I see lots of people that live on the dole that refuse to work - or bother to care for their children. Its hard for me to take a step back from the issue when I am wading through it every day.

 

[SamH]

This is true!

What is true? An uninformed opinion backed with nothing?

 

[Lochias]

Obesity is a HUGE issue among the US poor - in many states over 30% are obese - while the rich are actually the thinnest.

money.msn.com/family-money/does-being-poor-make-you-fat.aspx

How lucky for the rich, then, that they can afford good, healthy food and access to what they need to keep a sound, calm state of mind and being.

My statement implies nothing - it clear states what I intend to say.

I’ve never lived on government assistance because I’ve always worked - even when I was “too young” to work. I actually work with foster children (currently have 2 - have had 13 others in the past) and I am an educational advocate for disadvanteged children so I see lots of people that live on the dole that refuse to work - or bother to care for their children. Its hard for me to take a step back from the issue when I am wading through it every day.

I, too, have always worked. Yet, my family is far below the poverty line, and I can safely say that it is through no fault of our own. I have carried the entirety of my family’s well-being since I was around 15 or 16, as soon as I could legally work. It has not been enough. It has never been enough ,even with college, even with “pulling myself up by my bootstraps”. Extreme poverty is a black hole that takes everything you throw at it. I was the first of all my siblings to have a college degree. It has not been enough, through no fault of our own.

I am glad that you are a stout, good, solid-hearted, hard-working individual. I am also glad that luck, sheer, blessed luck, coincided with your state in life to make you able to live free of government assistance.

I have watched my sister slowly suffer to the point that her back will never be okay again, due to state healthcare. I have watched the free meds given to her by uncaring doctors drive her insane to the point that four police officers and two EMTs had to drag her out of the cat’s litter box where she was babbling prayers to God (a crisis that is fortunately now past). I have watched my mother dwindled to a 90-pound skeleton, thanks to the benefits of the government.

You are good. You are strong. And you are lucky.

 

[triumphguy]

Every single one of us are debt slaves - even if completely out of debt - through the money creation system. If Bob borrows money at interest, every other person is affected because the money that will pay the interest payments does not yet exist. It has to come from more lending, or exploiting someone unfairly. Ultimately it drives people to the wayside. Usury is an assault on society.

Now your last question is excellent! I’ve done exactly that. But for an effective micro-economy I think there needs to be at least about 300 people offering goods and services. That way most of the things people need can be gotten in the micro-economy. It’s going to take a concerted effort, bringing in people from all walks of life that are willing to offer their goods and services, before it begins to look healthy.

2% is not usury. It’s a reasonable rate of interest, based on a a reasonable rate of inflation related to a reasonable growth rate.