What Changes Would You Make To The NO Mass ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter I_Believe
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Okay, so under the right circumstances and to prevent profanation. Doesn’t sound like what you are proposing. You are proposing that he do away with the Blood so it won’t take as long, yet you don’t want eucharistic ministers so it won’t take as long. I don’t get your reasoning. And yes, he knows, and has said, that you receive the entirety in either Body or Blood.
 
First off I’d like to hello to everyone; this is my first post. I have enjoyed reading posts on this forum for some time but i feel it’s now time to participate :o

Now, for the matter at hand; I would loose the extraordinary ministers; only a Priest or Brother should be allowed to distribute our Lord in my opinion.
 
Assuming the NO is here to stay for now as the Pope has indicated, what changes, if any, would you make if you were in a position to do so ?

One I would make is to forbid anouncements during the collection.
My parish priests say the NO with reverence, but during the collection, the lectors make anouncements from the bulletin. I’ve noticed it at other NO parishes as well. I feel it takes the faithfuls’ attention away from the mass itself.
What would I do? Change it to the Traditional Latin Mass…thats not that large of a change…
 
The abolishment of the indult for the use of vernacular, mandating the use of Ad orientum Altars, the abolishment of the indult for Communion in the hand, forbidding the use of lay ministers and Altar girls, a complete overhaul of prayers, both Ordinary and Propers, to make them in line with the Tridentine Mass, going back to a one-year cycle of readings, the restoration of the Subdiaconate and Minor orders, and other similar changes.

Might as well just have the Tridentine 😉
Keep the 3 year cycle. Add chant in Latin for the responses as well as the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei. Keep the vernacular (especially for Profession of Faith and Our Father), but encourage Latin in other parts. Other than that, I agree with much here.

In fact, the parish I regulary attend uses Ad orientum, altar boys, no lay ministers, communion at the rail, and chant in Latin for the Gloria, Agnus Dei, and Sanctus.
 
I am not a liturgist, so I could not really competently address this question technically. Suffice to say that, re the things that dissatisfy me with the vernacular liturgy and the Tridentine rite, they have more to do with the manner in which the Mass is celebrated, not the basic format.

I did a quick survey of the basic vernacular mass and the low mass of the Tridentine, and find, when you compare the two, they are essentially similar. In the vernacular mass, there is more exposure to Old Testament scripture and a third reading on Sundays, a psalm response in place of the Gradual and Tract, several options for the Eucharistic Prayer (these I understand date back to the early centuries of the church).

My complaints are generally re goofy would be comedian priests, homilies that neglect the readings for the day, overenthusiastic music ministries, dropping the Creed on sundays, the penitential rite and worse. One particular peeve is the attempt to create community by telling folks, before mass starts, “Turn to the person next to you and greet them.” Its so artificial. Real community building happens at the coffee and donuts afterword.

Re the Tridentine Mass, I find it hardly reverent that the priest rapidy and almost silently runs through the Latin with all the enthusiasm of a bored cop reading a prisoner his rights. Whats the hurry??? As Fr. Benedict Groschel once said, the mass wasnt said in Latin, it was said in gibberish.
By the way, why is is silent? I dont understand the silence, nor why it is said in such a hurry? Surely, if you are worshipping God,
you dont do it in a rush as if you wanted to get it over with!

I prefer well celebrated vernacular mass to the low latin mass.
Although, if it is sung, it might be competitive.
 
I agree and protestants don’t seem to have any grasp of this at all. They think the true faith of God is static and has not grown or progressed and so they then accuse us of perverting the christian faith.
God Bless, oh and I Love the pic of Saint Vincent:)

The development of doctrine

photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/5798/1838/320/vincentlerins.jpg~by St. Vincent of Lerins

Is there to be no development of religion in the Church of Christ? Certainly, there is to be development and on the largest scale.

Who can be so grudging to men, so full of hate for God, as to try to prevent it? But it must truly be development of the faith, not alteration of the faith. Development means that each thing expands to be itself, while alteration means that a thing is changed from one thing into another.

The understanding, knowledge and wisdom of one and all, of individuals as well as of the whole Church, ought then to make great and vigorous progress with the passing of the ages and the centuries, but only along its own line of development, that is, with the same doctrine, the same meaning and the same import.

The religion of souls should follow the law of development of bodies. Though bodies develop and unfold their component parts with the passing of the years, they always remain what they were. There is a great difference between the flower of childhood and the maturity of age, but those who become old are the very same people who were once young. Though the condition and appearance of one and the same individual may change, it is one and the same nature, one and the same person.

The tiny members of unweaned children and the grown members of young men are still the same members. Men have the same number of limbs as children. Whatever develops at a later age was already present in seminal form; there is nothing new in old age that was not already latent in childhood.

There is no doubt, then, that the legitimate and correct rule of development, the established and wonderful order of growth, is this: in older people the fullness of years always brings to completion those members and forms that the wisdom of the Creator fashioned beforehand in their earlier years.

If, however, the human form were to turn into some shape that did not belong to its own nature, or even if something were added to the sum of its members or subtracted from it, the whole body would necessarily perish or become grotesque or at least be enfeebled. In the same way, the doctrine of the Christian religion should properly follow these laws of development, that is, by becoming firmer over the years, more ample in the course of time, more exalted as it advances in age.

In ancient times our ancestors sowed the good seed in the harvest field of the Church. It would be very wrong and unfitting if we, their descendants, were to reap, not the genuine wheat of truth but the intrusive growth of error.

On the contrary, what is right and fitting is this: there should be no inconsistency between first and last, but we should reap true doctrine from the growth of true teaching, so that when, in the course of time, those first sowings yield an increase it may flourish and be tended in our day also.

Courtesy of Argent by the Tiber, Today’s Office of Readings,

Could you apply it to the Liturgy ? Yes

james
 
Assume the Novus Ordo Mass is here to stay, how would I fix it?

That’s like asking me to assume my flat tire is here to stay, and then asking me how I was going to make the drive home. I’d make it, but it would not be a very pleasant ride.
 
That’s like asking me to assume my flat tire is here to stay, and then asking me how I was going to make the drive home. I’d make it, but it would not be a very pleasant ride.
😃
By the way, why is is silent? I dont understand the silence, nor why it is said in such a hurry?
Actually Trent said certain parts of the Mass, like the Canon, should be said in a low tone. Never said It shouldn’t be totally silent.

I agree with those that wish to hear more of it, however. And not that it’s a bad thing, but many times the music gets in the way too. So you have a choice, either try to follow the priest with your missal or follow the choir. Certainly keeps you focused, though. 👍
 
I would like to have all the Protestant songs in the hymnal section removed and replaced with Catholic hymns.
 
I would like to go back in time and change the fact that protestants helped make it.
 
I think the words of Consecration should have remained in Latin to show the continuity with the tradtional Latin mass and to have one common (and simple) connection for those who attend mass said in languages other than one’s native tongue. I would also like to see more Gregorian chant used during the mass, at least as an option. I am troubled by the posts which would ban women from any liturgical function. We are not talking about Holy Orders here but a visible inclusion of women within the liturgy. Don’t you think the magisterium had good reasons for letting women take a more visible role?
 
By the way, why is is silent? I dont understand the silence, nor why it is said in such a hurry? Surely, if you are worshipping God,
you dont do it in a rush as if you wanted to get it over with!
/QUOTE]

It is interesting you bring this up…the TLM I attend is much longer than the NO Mass near me. The NO Mass seems rushed, with too much talking and disruption, it is hard to concentrate on the beauty and power of CHRIST’S sacrifice when I am being told to greet one another, hold hands, say this out loud, say that out loud. The TLM is silent, because we are truly speechless at the beauty and majesty and power of the sacrifice of CHRIST.
 
Assuming the NO is here to stay for now as the Pope has indicated, what changes, if any, would you make if you were in a position to do so ?

One I would make is to forbid anouncements during the collection.
My parish priests say the NO with reverence, but during the collection, the lectors make anouncements from the bulletin. I’ve noticed it at other NO parishes as well. I feel it takes the faithfuls’ attention away from the mass itself.
Also, I would abolish receiving the Body of Our Lord by hand.

fisheaters.com/holycommunion.html

the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2007/01/communion-in-hand.html
 
  1. Make Latin more standard. Perhaps at least say the words of consecration in Latin.
  2. If in English then have a good translation (hopefully by 2009)
  3. Communion only on tongue…and while kneeling
  4. Ad Orientem altars
  5. Gregorian Chant!
  6. Cassocks and surplices instead of albs.
  7. No altar-girls
etc.

It’s not most of it isn’t already here…I only would like to enforced.
 
  1. Make Latin more standard. Perhaps at least say the words of consecration in Latin.
  2. If in English then have a good translation (hopefully by 2009)
  3. Communion only on tongue…and while kneeling
  4. Ad Orientem altars
  5. Gregorian Chant!
  6. Cassocks and surplices instead of albs.
  7. No altar-girls
etc.

It’s not most of it isn’t already here…I only would like to enforced.
I couldn’t agree more. I would love to see the parishes say the prayer to St. Michael after Mass.
 
Much of our hopes are in the hands of our diocesan bishops. Here, for example, it’s unlikely the NO Mass in this diocese will undergo a more orthodox setting. We have an “ecumenical” bishop who is bent on keeping the Mass generic. The Mass here has a Lutheran kind of ambiance. Very disheartening.

To my mind, much of ecumenism is the neutralizing of the One, True Church. If we were in a Rip Van Winkle “sleep” for 30 years and woke to the Mass of today (in some diocese) we would think the Church has actually disappeared.

However, the Holy Spirit will guide the Church until the Last Day and we will see restorations of the Mass for All Time.

IMO, it looks like we are going through a “division” and the True Church will become a remnant but it will be sustained.
 
I have one more thing! 🙂

It would be kinda nice if we prayed this again since I don’t see any reason for this omission. It’s more humble and it’s always nice to ask saints to pray for us! 👍 :
  • Confíteor Deo omnipoténti,
    beátæ Maríæ semper Vírgini,
    beáto Michaéli Archángelo,
    beáto Joanni Baptístæ,
    sanctis Apóstolis Petro et Paulo,
    ómnibus Sanctis
    , et vobis,
    fratres,
    quia peccávi nimis cogitatióne,
    verbo et ópere: mea culpa,
    mea culpa, mea máxima culpa.
    Ideo precor beátam Maríam semper Vírginem,
    ** beátum Michaélem Archángelum,
    beátum Joánnem Baptístam,
    sanctos Apóstolos Petrum et Paulum,
    omnes Sanctos**, et vos,
    fratres,
    oráre pro me ad Dóminum Deum nostrum. *
Instead of:
  • Confíteor Deo omnipoténti,
    et vobis, fratres,
    quia peccávi nimis cogitatióne, verbo, ópere, et omissióne:
    mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa.
    Ideo precor beátam Maríam semper Vírginem,
    omnes angelos et sanctos
    et vos, fratres,
    oráre pro me ad Dóminum Deum nostrum. *
The things I listed before are certainly more important, this would be just this nice addon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top