What Christian unity means to you? Please read carefully.

[Mannyfit75]

I know all Christians whether, Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant want Christianity unity.

To All Christians,

While there is no doubt in the future that Jesus desire us to be One Church just as he prayed for, I believe unity will begin with the re-unification of the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church. The time which none of us will know. I do believe it will happen before Jesus Christ return.

When I look deeply at the Vaticans attempts to reconcil with Christian churches which develop out of the Protestantism in the 1515-1530, I do see a different approach to unity.

Pope Benedict XVI made some points he made with his diologue with the Menonites:

“Since it is Christ himself who calls us to seek Christian unity, it is entirely right and fitting that Mennonites and Catholics have entered into dialogue in order to understand the reasons for the conflict that arose between us in the 16th century. To understand is to take the first step towards healing.”

“Mennonites are well known for their strong Christian witness to peace in the name of the Gospel, and here, despite centuries of division, the dialogue report ‘Called Together to be Peacemakers’ has shown that we hold many convictions in common,”

"We both emphasize that our work for peace is rooted in Jesus Christ ‘who is our peace, who has made us both one … making peace that he might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross.’

“We both understand that ‘reconciliation, nonviolence and active peacemaking belong to the heart of the Gospel.’”

For Baptists delegation whom he meet he wrote this letter:

Dear Friends,

I offer a cordial welcome to you, the members of the joint international commission sponsored by the Baptist World Alliance and the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. I am pleased that you have chosen as the site of your meeting this city of Rome, where the Apostles Peter and Paul proclaimed the Gospel and crowned their witness to the Risen Lord by the shedding of their blood. It is my hope that your conversations will bear abundant fruit for the progress of dialogue and the increase of understanding and cooperation between Catholics and Baptists.

The theme which you have chosen for this phase of contacts – The Word of God in the Life of the Church: Scripture, Tradition and Koinonia – offers a promising context for the examination of such historically controverted issues as the relationship between Scripture and Tradition, the understanding of Baptism and the sacraments, the place of Mary in the communion of the Church, and the nature of oversight and primacy in the Church’s ministerial structure. If our hope for reconciliation and greater fellowship between Baptists and Catholics is to be realized, issues such as these need to be faced together, in a spirit of openness, mutual respect and fidelity to the liberating truth and saving power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As believers in Christ, we acknowledge him as the one mediator between God and humanity (1 Tim 2:5), our Saviour, our Redeemer. He is the cornerstone (Eph 2:21; 1 Pet 2:4-8); and the head of the body, which is the Church (Col 1:18). In this Advent season, we look to his coming with prayerful expectation. Today, as ever, the world needs our common witness to Christ and to the hope brought by the Gospel.

I noticed a zeal and commit of the Pope to develop reconciliation rather than unity towards Protestant Churches as in One Church approached towards Eastern Orthodox.

So the question remains, how does the Vatican with the Pope’s leadership approach unity concerning Protestants? Is it recognization of certain truths which the Catholic Church teaches, or seek a common theology view on salvation. I know this does go deep.

This thread is different from all the Thread I wrote about Protestants.

 

[Contarini]

Manny,

This is an excellent point. As I’ve said before, I think Catholic-Orthodox unity is the key. Yes, Protestants split from the Western Church, so a case can be made that we should work out our differences within the Western tradition. But from the Reformation on Protestants have appealed in one way or another to the East-West split as a justification for our own separation. If Catholics and Orthodox were to reach agreement, particularly on papal authority (the one thing that most clearly divides all non-Catholic Christians from Rome), I think ecumenical Protestants like myself would be able to take this as a model for how to work through our own issues with the claims of “Rome.”

Edwin

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you Manny,

How can we love Christians of other denominations as we love ourselves?

Unity depends on starting with the greatest commandments, all the laws and prophets of God hang on these two commandments. Love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples.

If we try and hang unity on the authority of the Pope, then we will fail simply because we have not put at the top that which Jesus said is greatest.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Hey Manny

yuu knew Id show up on this topic eh? I think what your pope is doing is good. Someone has to start somewhere. Maybe not everyone will totally agree, but at least we can get together for Christmas dinner and not get in a family arguement!

Now, “the world” meaning those who do not profess faith in Christ could take it several ways. One they feel “religion” is grouping up and gaining power. or we agree and will be a fantastic witness to them. If it happens we will probaly have to take the good and the bad.

And I was commenting on another thead about understanding between churches. (I put it below) Sometimes I think well maybe it will be everyone will go to the Catholic church, but if you look at my post I think they already are to a certain extent. Anyway, its a good those letters, I will pray hearts are softened so we can see each other as Christ sees us.



we were talking about the Nicene Creed. Im just saying that those that try so hard to “not be catholic” well I guess end up there in something like the Creed. I dont know who to believe regarding the line catholic. Ive been told it was originally written as (catholic universal) meaning all churches. Do you know the history on it??

I think the main difference is when it come to the part that says catholic, Ive been told its understood as;

catholic (universal)

meaning all churches that believe in the rest of the creed are actually under one church.

Now, you could be upset about that or just smile and if Im enough of a quick study realise who wrote that creed?

Something I learned from the SDA’s, see to them any church who worships on Sunday is Catholic. (I know I hear the arguements)

But I find it interesting sitting here on the bench that there is this thread running through all the churches. That while they claim they are different and appear to be. When the rubber hits the road they fall in line with that creed.

Exactly how Gods gonna pull the string and drag us all together is His plan.

 

[bengal_fan]

Manny,

This is an excellent point. As I’ve said before, I think Catholic-Orthodox unity is the key. Yes, Protestants split from the Western Church, so a case can be made that we should work out our differences within the Western tradition. But from the Reformation on Protestants have appealed in one way or another to the East-West split as a justification for our own separation. If Catholics and Orthodox were to reach agreement, particularly on papal authority (the one thing that most clearly divides all non-Catholic Christians from Rome), I think ecumenical Protestants like myself would be able to take this as a model for how to work through our own issues with the claims of “Rome.”

Edwin

got to agree with edwin.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hey Manny

yuu knew Id show up on this topic eh? I think what your pope is doing is good. Someone has to start somewhere. Maybe not everyone will totally agree, but at least we can get together for Christmas dinner and not get in a family arguement!

Now, “the world” meaning those who do not profess faith in Christ could take it several ways. One they feel “religion” is grouping up and gaining power. or we agree and will be a fantastic witness to them. If it happens we will probaly have to take the good and the bad.

The disagreement are there. That is expected. Even Catholics disagree. The Teaching Office of the Church remains the same. I think the unity lies there.

Like most Christians, Catholic and Protestants do have one thing in common. The belief of Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Son of the Living God. His death destroyed our death, his resurrection restored our life.

I think once certain theological issues are discuss particularly the role of Mary in Jesus’ Kingdom. Just as the Pope says.

And I was commenting on another thead about understanding between churches. (I put it below) Sometimes I think well maybe it will be everyone will go to the Catholic church, but if you look at my post I think they already are to a certain extent. Anyway, its a good those letters, I will pray hearts are softened so we can see each other as Christ sees us.

Dialogue is the first step before reconciliation.

we were talking about the Nicene Creed. Im just saying that those that try so hard to “not be catholic” well I guess end up there in something like the Creed. I dont know who to believe regarding the line catholic. Ive been told it was originally written as (catholic universal) meaning all churches. Do you know the history on it??

For the most part the Nicene Creed which is professed by most Protestants is the only thing that bring us closer.

 

[jmcrae]

we were talking about the Nicene Creed. Im just saying that those that try so hard to “not be catholic” well I guess end up there in something like the Creed. I dont know who to believe regarding the line catholic. Ive been told it was originally written as (catholic universal) meaning all churches. Do you know the history on it??

The Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD. (We got the Bible in 405 AD. So, this was while the only thing anybody had to go on was the Oral Tradition.)

The Nicene Creed is the first part of the first of two documents produced by the Council of Nicea. The Council of Nicea consisted of a group of Catholic Bishops in communion with Rome who had some concerns about two different break-away groups who were not in communion with Rome anymore - the Arians, who denied the divinity of Christ, and the Cathari - a group of rebel priests who were giving out Holy Communion to people who were divorced and remarried (or worse, married twice without any divorce at all) and to lapsi - people who denied Christ and quit going to Church out of fear of what others might think of them.

It is very clear from the rest of the document that, when they used the word “catholic,” they intended to mean people who are in full communion with Rome - they were deliberately excluding anyone who did not consider himself to be under the authority of the Church on earth, as becomes clear when you read the rest of the document, because they declare such people to be “anathema” - that is, not to be members of the Catholic Church.

 

[DDClark]

So the question remains, how does the Vatican with the Pope’s leadership approach unity concerning Protestants? Is it recognization of certain truths which the Catholic Church teaches, or seek a common theology view on salvation. I know this does go deep.

I believe that it would be good to begin with a bit of both. I’m speaking completely from where I am personally, as a non-Catholic, in terms of unity. That is one of the reasons I joined this board - to learn more about truth.

In terms of Catholic tradition, I have no difficulty understanding that without the Catholic Church, there would be no New Testament as we know it today. I am deeply grateful for that. I also know that the “extra books” were not “added” by the Catholic church, but instead, removed by Luther. To most Protestants, no Bible = no church.

In terms of salvation, many Protestants (not all) think that Catholics believe that salvation comes through works alone (or something close to that). It would help if non-Catholic Christians understood that it is faith and works. Both Protestants and Catholics have faith as part of the equation.

I have also benefited from having a better understanding of Luther and his beliefs and theology. Knowing more about the book of James in the context of the New Testament as a whole - is pretty eye-opening.

The churches I attended as a child always taught OSAS, but it never felt right. I understand why I felt that way now that I’m attending a Methodist church …

And the Creeds - Apostles and Nicene are both unifying to me - even if history shows that the intent was to exclude non-Catholic Christians. I replace Catholic with catholic (universal) - Big C with little C for now.

 

[paarsurrey]

Manny,
This is an excellent point. As I’ve said before, I think Catholic-Orthodox unity is the key. Yes, Protestants split from the Western Church, so a case can be made that we should work out our differences within the Western tradition. But from the Reformation on Protestants have appealed in one way or another to the East-West split as a justification for our own separation. If Catholics and Orthodox were to reach agreement, particularly on papal authority (the one thing that most clearly divides all non-Catholic Christians from Rome), I think ecumenical Protestants like myself would be able to take this as a model for how to work through our own issues with the claims of “Rome.”
Edwin

Hi

I am happy at least there is a sincere, if I have depicted it correctly, move for Unity of Christendum. It is good if the Catholics first Unite with the Eastern Orthodox and both combined unite with the Protestants.

I pray for your sucess as 32000 plus denomination create a lot of confusion, no othe religion has so many denomination to my knowledge.

Thanks

 

[Kitty_Chan]

The Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD. (We got the Bible in 405 AD. So, this was while the only thing anybody had to go on was the Oral Tradition.)

yes, I also remember reading that 1st “creed” was 1 Cor 15; 3-8 The Nicene Creed was extended to include more points. At least thats what I understand. Also, a creed can be a point for unifying.

And like you said it can be dividing for those that dont hold to the creed.

ps; The Arians? they cant be connected to the modern day version??

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I believe that it would be good to begin with a bit of both. I’m speaking completely from where I am personally, as a non-Catholic, in terms of unity. That is one of the reasons I joined this board - to learn more about truth.

not why I joined, but why I stay, welcome btw.

Thats interesting, I was considering the Methodist myself, maybe they are a good blend??

Its nice to hear the rest of what you say.

And the Creeds - Apostles and Nicene are both unifying to me - even if history shows that the intent was to exclude non-Catholic Christians. I replace Catholic with catholic (universal) - Big C with little C for now.

Do you know why its replaced? specifically who or why? The c universal I mean.

 

[grandfather]

We have the promise of Jesus that His Church, the Church He founded would endure until the end of time. He said He would send the Holy Spirit to lead His Church into all truth.

We see many Churches believing different opposing doctrines. Logic says one or none of them is correct in all its doctrines. This is the one that will endure until the end of time.

What are the options for those groups that are separated from the Church founded by Jesus? They might reunite with Jesus’ Church. They might die off and disappear. They might persist in their errors, unitl the end and remain separated.

I think and hope that what will happen is that when Christ returns Christians will no longer be divided, but reunited. That is my hope, but who knows what will happen? This seems far from being a reality with so many divisions and so much bitterness among divergent denominations. While there might not be new separations and denominations springing up as fast as they used to, some of those that do exist seem to be growing further apart. The Episcopal/Anglican denomination is an example of how some dying splinter groups separate themselves further and further from the vine while they think they have truth.

Those who long for unity of faith will find the path to unity. There are some that do not seek unity. They will follow their own path unless God intervenes and redirects them.

 

[paarsurrey]

I think and hope that what will happen is that when Christ returns Christians will no longer be divided, but reunited.

Hi

I am an Ahmadi a peaceful Muslim, and I am for Unity of the Christians or One United Christendum to finish the current confusion by divisions of Christianity into 32000plus denominations/sects and more seem to be in the offing which is detrimental to the World Peace.

How you visualize this unity would shape up?

Do you think it would take place before Second Coming of Jesus ( as do the Catholics believe) or you think after when he comes?

Any thoughts

Thanks

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi

I am an Ahmadi a peaceful Muslim, and I am for Unity of the Christians or One United Christendum to finish the current confusion by divisions of Christianity into 32000plus denominations/sects and more seem to be in the offing which is detrimental to the World Peace.

How you visualize this unity would shape up?

Do you think it would take place before Second Coming of Jesus ( as do the Catholics believe) or you think after when he comes?

Any thoughts

Thanks

I believe it will happen before he comes.

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe it will happen before he comes.

Hi

If you believe that United Christendum would happen before the Second Coming of Jesus ( as per Catholic belief); Do you see any suitable and sincere efforts being made in this direction? If you don’t see any, and you still believe as you say, then Jesus’s Second Coming might be delayed till what they say the Doom’s Day. Like the Jews who are still waiting and wailing.

What do you see is the responsibility of the Catholicism in that perspective?

Shouldn’t the efforts be geared up?

Or is it purposely being done to delay his Coming.

Any thought.

Thanks

 

[AgnosTheist]

Unity requires compromise and that is something that the RCC is barely capable of. So unity will forever be a dream. Diversity rules! Its what life is all about.

 

[grandfather]

Unity requires compromise and that is something that the RCC is barely capable of. So unity will forever be a dream. Diversity rules! Its what life is all about.

Unity requires truth.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi

If you believe that United Christendum would happen before the Second Coming of Jesus ( as per Catholic belief); Do you see any suitable and sincere efforts being made in this direction? If you don’t see any, and you still believe as you say, then Jesus’s Second Coming might be delayed till what they say the Doom’s Day. Like the Jews who are still waiting and wailing.

What do you see is the responsibility of the Catholicism in that perspective?

I think the Pope will be responsible for the unity of the Church, if he brings dialogue to those Christians who are not in communion with him.

Shouldn’t the efforts be geared up?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Unity requires truth.

And religious truth is nothing but a matter of perspective.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Unity requires compromise and that is something that the RCC is barely capable of. So unity will forever be a dream. Diversity rules! Its what life is all about.

Really, AT.

Consider the following facts, the dialogue between Orthodox and Catholics in Ravenna on the Papal Primacy seem to disprove your case. The Joint-Catholic Orthodox Commission agree that the Papal Primacy had very important role it its authority. As to the limits of that primacy is still open for discussion.

Only time will tell when this unification of all Christians will happen. I do know this for certain though. I believe once Christians become one Church as it was prior to the Schism or the Reformation. Christians will be persecuted by the Anti-Christ and will probably cost the lives of millions of Christian, and probably the death of the Pope.