What color phelonion is a priest supposed wear to concelebrate a funeral Mass?

[MonkMoses]

I suspect if the bishop visited for a big funeral DL today, the color for the liturgy would be white/goldish.

I have to chuckle about the priest in red. He was buried in the procession by the MC, in large part I suspect due to the disharmonious color of his vestments. He didn’t appear to be a happy camper either.

Looks like the “MC” didn’t have a clue.

 

[Draper]

Looks like the “MC” didn’t have a clue.

No. Actually it was the MC that sent out the email with the vestment color on it. It was the Ruthenian priest who felt the need to put himself on display and the MC quite rightly compensated.

 

[Draper]

IMO it’s more important to follow proper protocol and the directives of your bishop then to try and “fit in”.

And the fact is you have no idea what the “proper protocol and the directives of (his) bishop” is.

You are also definitely wrong about a requirement from the local Ruthenian bishop to “fully vest.” A epitrachelion of the correct color over a black sticharion is most certainly acceptable in concelebration situations around here.

 

[malphono]

A epitrachelion of the correct color over a black sticharion is most certainly acceptable in concelebration situations around here.

A sticharion is considered the equivalent of an alb, which is never black. Perhaps you meant a riasa, which is black, but which is the rough equivalent of a surplice in a liturgical context.

 

[5Loaves]

Byzantine priests are required to follow the directives of their own bishop when concelebrating in a ritual church that they do not belong to. **Most Byzantine bishops **require their priests to fully vest ( no “alb and stole” only) and require their priests to wear the colors that are appropriate within their own church…

And the fact is you have no idea what the “proper protocol and the directives of (his) bishop” is.

You are also definitely wrong about a requirement from the local Ruthenian bishop to “fully vest.” A epitrachelion of the correct color over a black sticharion is most certainly acceptable in concelebration situations around here.

Father Moses only said that "**Most Byzantine bishops **require their priests to fully vest ".

That’s an interesting situation in your area as far as concelebrating in only an epitrachelion over his ryasa/exorason. I’ve never seen an Eastern Christian priest actually concelebrate in only his epitrachelion. I’ve often seen them go into the Holy Place in only epitrachelion and cuffs to receive communion in an Eastern Liturgy, but not when they are actually concelebrating.

I asked an Orthodox priest before class tonight if an Orthodox priest may concelebrate without fully vesting, in only epitrachelion and cuffs and he said they may not. I have often seen it in the Roman Rite that a Latin Church priest concelebrant was wearing only the stole over the alb, or a cassock and stole.

 

[MonkMoses]

And the fact is you have no idea what the “proper protocol and the directives of (his) bishop” is.

You are also definitely wrong about a requirement from the local Ruthenian bishop to “fully vest.” A epitrachelion of the correct color over a black sticharion is most certainly acceptable in concelebration situations around here.

Sorry, no Byzantine Priest would concelebrate with just a ryassa and epitrachelion, that is choir dress not what us worn for concelebrating. Also here is no such animal as a black sticharion.

 

[Draper]

Sorry, no Byzantine Priest would concelebrate with just a ryassa and epitrachelion, that is choir dress not what us worn for concelebrating. Also here is no such animal as a black sticharion.

“Sorry”, but you’ll have to take it up with the local Eastern ordinary if you’re that concerned.

 

[Draper]

For what it’s worth, this same priest concelebrated a local Latin Rite ordination Mass last night. In a sea of white/goldish, he just had to wear his blue garb. No question to me now that he simply wants to bring attention to himself.

 

[Draper]

A sticharion is considered the equivalent of an alb, which is never black. Perhaps you meant a riasa, which is black, but which is the rough equivalent of a surplice in a liturgical context.

You are right. My apologies.

 

[5Loaves]

The Byzantine tradition is to wear red vestments for a funeral, sometimes other “dark” colors like purple/violet, or combinations of these, but mostly red.

…The Ruthenian priest probably wore red because that’s his own proper color for funerals…

…Therefore it would be perfectly normal for a concelebrating Byzantine priest at a Latin funeral to wear dark (red) vestments.

No. Actually it was the MC that sent out the email with the vestment color on it. It was the Ruthenian priest who felt the need to put himself on display and the MC quite rightly compensated.

I can understand an email going out to all invited clergy. However any vesting directive of the Latin Church would be intended for the Latin clergy, even if all clergy regardless of their particular Church were included in the emails about the upcoming service. Clergy of a separate particular/sui iuris Catholic Church fall under their own Church’s typicon/rubrics for vesting, or their own bishop’s directive, not those of the Latin Church, or those of any other Catholic Church sui iuris. FrDavid96 and Monk Moses, the two clergy who have responded here, seem to both be saying this. It would surely be inappropriate in this day and age for the Latin Church to instruct clergy of another particular Church on how to vest.

A Latin Church priest concelebrating in an Eastern Catholic Church does “stand out” due to his vestments, but I’ve never known anyone to be off put by that. We’re used to a “variety of fabrics and colors” when priests concelebrate in the East, as indicated in the quote from Kh. Krista West and the photo in one of my earlier posts.

It’s part of the beauty of the universal Church that we have this diversity, indeed this complementarity, in the Church East and West. This is a time when “When in Rome…” does not apply, as one can clearly see whenever clergy of the universal Church East and West are concelebrating with HH Francis in Rome, and the clergy of the East are easily identifiable due to their distinctive vesture.

 

[babochka]

We’re used to a “variety of fabrics and colors” when priests concelebrate in the East, as indicated in the quote from Kh. Krista West and the photo in one of my earlier posts.
.

Look at all these lovely colors! As my priest once put it, this is the “freedom of the East.”


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[Draper]

Look at all these lovely colors! As my priest once put it, this is the “freedom of the East.”

“Freedom of the East?” Anywho, as someone else pointed out, it’s best to match the color of the principle celebrant if possible – particularly if one if a visitor to the Latin Rite of the Church. “When in Rome…”

 

[babochka]

“Freedom of the East?” Anywho, as someone else pointed out, it’s best to match the color of the principle celebrant if possible – particularly if one if a visitor to the Latin Rite of the Church. “When in Rome…”

If “when in Rome” applied here, the Byzantine priest would be expected to wear Latin Rite vestments, which would not be liturgically correct. He should wear what is appropriate to his own rite, and in the Byzantine rite, there is considerably more freedom in colors than in the west. That doesn’t make it right or wrong, just different.

My priest says Mass twice a week at a local Latin Rite parish. When he is the principle celebrant, he wears the vestments proper to the celebrant in the Latin Rite. When he in concelebrating at Mass, he wears his own vestments, in whatever color happens to be appropriate at the time.

As far as matching the color of the principle celebrant, that seems to be just an asthetic judgement and not really liturgical.

 

[5Loaves]

“Freedom of the East?” Anywho, as someone else pointed out, it’s best to match the color of the principle celebrant if possible – particularly if one if a visitor to the Latin Rite of the Church. “When in Rome…”

This is understandable from the perspective of the Roman Catholic sensibility. But it is not the patrimony of the East, as every Eastern poster on the thread has already shared, including Fr Moses. Having Eastern clergy advised that they need to abide by Latin ways is not something that goes over well in this day and age.

It’s part of the beauty of the universal Church that we have this diversity, indeed this complementarity, in the Church East and West. This is a time when “When in Rome…” does not apply, as one can clearly see whenever clergy of the universal Church East and West are concelebrating with HH Francis in Rome, and the clergy of the East are easily identifiable due to their distinctive vesture.

Every liturgy I’ve been in with Eastern Catholic clergy present, the Roman Catholics seemed quite fascinated by the Eastern clergy vestments “variety of fabrics and colors”, rather than disturbed by it. This included the Installation Mass for Archbishop Salvatore Cordilone, then Bishop, in the Diocese of Oakland, and again at his Installation as Archbishop of San Francisco, and the Ordination and Installation Mass for Bishop Barber who replaced Archbishop Salvatore. The local ICKSP priest was also quite noticeable at those Installation Masses in his vesture proper to the Extraordinary Form for which he was ordained, which likewise was quite different from the other diocesan priests. The Universal Church was beautifully and authentically represented.

 

[MonkMoses]

“Freedom of the East?” Anywho, as someone else pointed out, it’s best to match the color of the principle celebrant if possible – particularly if one if a visitor to the Latin Rite of the Church. “When in Rome…”

Yeah! I’ll remember that next time the Latins show up to concelebrate in their alb and stole.

“When in Constantinople…”!

 

[Vico]

Yeah! I’ll remember that next time the Latins show up to concelebrate in their alb and stole.

“When in Constantinople…”!

For the Latins,* Redemptionis Sacramentum:*
124. A faculty is given in the Roman Missal for the Priest concelebrants at Mass other than the principal concelebrant (who should always put on a chasuble of the prescribed color), for a just reason such as a large number of concelebrants or a lack of vestments, to omit ‘the chasuble, using the stole over the alb.’ Where a need of this kind can be foreseen, however, provision should be made for it insofar as possible. Out of necessity the concelebrants other than the principal celebrant may even put on white chasubles. For the rest, the norms of the liturgical books are to be observed.

 

[MonkMoses]

For the Latins,* Redemptionis Sacramentum:*
124. A faculty is given in the Roman Missal for the Priest concelebrants at Mass other than the principal concelebrant (who should always put on a chasuble of the prescribed color), for a just reason such as a large number of concelebrants or a lack of vestments, to omit ‘the chasuble, using the stole over the alb.’ Where a need of this kind can be foreseen, however, provision should be made for it insofar as possible. Out of necessity the concelebrants other than the principal celebrant may even put on white chasubles. For the rest, the norms of the liturgical books are to be observed.

Thats fine fir the Latins…

My point was if the Byzantines should follow Latin customs when visiting a Latin Church, the Latins should have no problem then when visiting a Byzantine Church to follow Byzantine customs. Even wearing dark vestments to a funeral! The horror!

 

[Vico]

Thats fine fir the Latins…

My point was if the Byzantines should follow Latin customs when visiting a Latin Church, the Latins should have no problem then when visiting a Byzantine Church to follow Byzantine customs. Even wearing dark vestments to a funeral! The horror!

I understand, and I have been to events with eastern and Latin concelebrants a few times, and the colors were different. I am responding to your: “I’ll remember that next time the Latins show up to concelebrate in their alb and stole”. So we all know the reasons for alb and stole for them.

 

[malphono]

I am responding to your: “I’ll remember that next time the Latins show up to concelebrate in their alb and stole”. So we all know the reasons for alb and stole for them.

Now it’s time for my meager :twocents: albeit unsolicited and probably unwanted.

Is simply inviting a Latin to concelebrate in another ritual church a “just reason” for the alb and stole routine? It certain is not so in my book, and according to the provisions of RS, it doesn’t seem to be so in theirs either.

 

[Vico]

Now it’s time for my meager :twocents: albeit unsolicited and probably unwanted.

Is simply inviting a Latin to concelebrate in another ritual church a “just reason” for the alb and stole routine? It certain is not so in my book, and according to the provisions of RS, it doesn’t seem to be so in theirs either.

As posted, it requires a “just reason such as a large number of concelebrants or a lack of vestments”.