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zerinus
Guest
Rest assured we have no desire to appear as another Apostate Christian church.
zerinus
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zerinus
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Then quit wrapping up Mormon beliefs in Christian words.
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KingAlfred
Guest
“What Constitutes A Christian?”
Discipleship. Denominationalism plays into it, but the bottom line is following Christ as best as one can.
Discipleship. Denominationalism plays into it, but the bottom line is following Christ as best as one can.
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Seraphim25
Guest
QUOTE=Seraphim25;4561555]an excellent question that demonstrates ones loyalties to a deity or figure. For Christians it is love to the neighbor and to love god with all your heart and with all your soul. But not just any love. For example it is save to say that we all love it is just primarily who we love. Do we love only those who love us back. For I tell you even atheist love. But I can also say to you that unlike any other reglion the love of neighbor with out any conditions is in fact christian based.
God tells us this command: To love God with all your sole heart and mind. And to love your neighbor as yourself. Those who love thy neighbor is acceptable to God. And the truth is in that individual and the fruits at which is produced will be shown to all men. The light that came into the world Jesus Christ the Lord.
If however if you say, I love God and are racists and are hateful revenge full then the truth is NOT in you and your sins remain full force unless you repent.
Based on the bible you are in fact a christian if you accept Christ as your Lord and personal savior that he came down was buried, and was raised and is now sitting at the right hand of the father. That you are a sinner and you need Gods help and that you are not God IE Mormans understanding. That you love God and Neighbor. Then you are in fact a christian!!!
It is ALWAYS in the best interest of anybody who is seekers of the truth please do NOT look at the faults of men or men in and of itself. Look at what GOD says and how HE defines what it means to be his son/daughter. For I tell you Men will disappoint you but God will never disappoint.
Test all things try all things and you will find peace in the one who sanctifies your soul who bought you with a price.
May the Lord bring you glad tidings and give you rest to the glory of his name!
God tells us this command: To love God with all your sole heart and mind. And to love your neighbor as yourself. Those who love thy neighbor is acceptable to God. And the truth is in that individual and the fruits at which is produced will be shown to all men. The light that came into the world Jesus Christ the Lord.
If however if you say, I love God and are racists and are hateful revenge full then the truth is NOT in you and your sins remain full force unless you repent.
Based on the bible you are in fact a christian if you accept Christ as your Lord and personal savior that he came down was buried, and was raised and is now sitting at the right hand of the father. That you are a sinner and you need Gods help and that you are not God IE Mormans understanding. That you love God and Neighbor. Then you are in fact a christian!!!
It is ALWAYS in the best interest of anybody who is seekers of the truth please do NOT look at the faults of men or men in and of itself. Look at what GOD says and how HE defines what it means to be his son/daughter. For I tell you Men will disappoint you but God will never disappoint.
Test all things try all things and you will find peace in the one who sanctifies your soul who bought you with a price.
May the Lord bring you glad tidings and give you rest to the glory of his name!
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zerinus
Guest
Well, since Mormonism is the only true Christian Church, that should not come as a surprise, should it.
zerinus
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zerinus
Guest
What is your problem? Don’t you have anything better to do than copy and paste the same thing over and over?
zerinus
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Erich
Guest
Hmm, by my observation, as of this writing Seraphim25’s post count is 36 (since September 30, 2007).
Yours is 3,827 (since September 7, 2006).
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MelanieAnne
Guest
Many would question whether Mormonism is Christian at all. Others will give Mormons the benefit of the doubt and at least concede that Mormons have the basic cast of characters of Christianity identified no matter how skewed the theology may be.Well, since Mormonism is the only true Christian Church, that should not come as a surprise, should it.
zerinus
Claims such as “Mormonism is the only true Christian Church” and all other faiths that purport to be Christian represent “Post Apostate Christianity” are arrogant and unfounded in fact or reality. It does not matter how many times or with how much confidence these claims, or some variant of them, are repeated, it does not change the fact that they are utterly without factual foundation.
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look3467
Guest
What Constitutes A Christian?
A believer period!
A true believer accepts the redemptive act of Jesus as one’s own by faith alone!
When a child is born, the child is in the dark concerning the things of God, but as it grows to wards maturity, it will learn both what is good and what is not.
Parents are responsible to teach the child who, and what God is.
The child than, will one day make a conscience decision to it’s choice to believe or not believe in God as its savior.
God is not limited to anyone religious belief, simply because, God sees the heart and not the outer man.
1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
There are believers not in Jesus by name, but in God by other names who are justified by the death and resurrection of Jesus, though they may not understand it so.
So, how can we know to our satisfaction who is a believer?
By their fruits shall we see to know.
Love emanates from within and infects those around it.
Therefore, let us judge wisely, concerning the things of God.
1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Judgment is here and now, everyday we have to face the world and judgments we must make concerning our relationship to God while yet in the world.
That is the power of choice given to us by God in an environment not conducive to good, but bent to wards evil.
Key importance in overcoming the world is knowledge of God’s desires and maintaining God’s presence in our minds continuously.
That is a prayer.
Peace>>>AJ
A believer period!
A true believer accepts the redemptive act of Jesus as one’s own by faith alone!
When a child is born, the child is in the dark concerning the things of God, but as it grows to wards maturity, it will learn both what is good and what is not.
Parents are responsible to teach the child who, and what God is.
The child than, will one day make a conscience decision to it’s choice to believe or not believe in God as its savior.
God is not limited to anyone religious belief, simply because, God sees the heart and not the outer man.
1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
There are believers not in Jesus by name, but in God by other names who are justified by the death and resurrection of Jesus, though they may not understand it so.
So, how can we know to our satisfaction who is a believer?
By their fruits shall we see to know.
Love emanates from within and infects those around it.
Therefore, let us judge wisely, concerning the things of God.
1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Judgment is here and now, everyday we have to face the world and judgments we must make concerning our relationship to God while yet in the world.
That is the power of choice given to us by God in an environment not conducive to good, but bent to wards evil.
Key importance in overcoming the world is knowledge of God’s desires and maintaining God’s presence in our minds continuously.
That is a prayer.
Peace>>>AJ
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Erich
Guest
It’s not enough to just be a believer… one must also be baptized.
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.” (John 3:5)
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)
Even the Protestant Martin Luther affirmed the necessity of baptism. He wrote: “Baptism is no human plaything but is instituted by God himself. Moreover, it is solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we shall not be saved. We are not to regard it as an indifferent matter, then, like putting on a new red coat. It is of the greatest importance that we regard baptism as excellent, glorious, and exalted.” (Large Catechism 4:6)
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PetersKeys
Guest
thats what I have trouble understanding with Mormon theology. Technically we have the guarentee of the Holy Spirit that it will guide the church from error. Its essentially saying God was unable to guide his church. Jesus is only mediator and no new prophets or reformers are needed.
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Seraphim25
Guest
I have no problem it just seemed to me that you ignored the sole purpose of “what constitutes a christian”
Again you must confess with your lips that Jesus is lord and your personal savior and you Must love God with all your heart, soul and mind. Moreover, you must love your neighbor as yourself for the love covers a multitude of sins!
If you need further proof please read James and all of Paul’s letters!!! I implore you that without the confession that Jesus is Lord you are not born again and thus are NOT christian.
A lot of people take great offense to this but this is the truth that was given to men that at the name of Jesus all shall bow and bend thier knee to confess him Lord! And that Jesus is the ONLY way to God for he says I AM the truth, the life, NONE can get to the father but by ME!!
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look3467
Guest
Can the heart be baptized?
Circumcision is not only a physical thing but also of the heart.
Before anything can happen, the old must be peeled away exposing the newness of the new heart.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Born of water is as like in the mother’s womb (Physical birth) and of the spirit. (Spiritual birth)
Two birth’s, one physical and the other spiritual.
The physical we are already but not necessarily the spiritual until circumcision of the heart transforms our old heart into a new heart.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
So my friend, the heart is where it all happens.
**Then **comes the desire to demonstrate one’s new heart by symbolically following Jesus in His death, burial and resurrection.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
But baptism of the heart? 1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
What? “…not the putting away of the filth of the flesh…” but “…the answer of a good conscience toward God
Now, does that not indicate to you the renewal of the heart, or the heart being immersed into the living waters of Jesus Christ?
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)>>>Erich
We are all condemned until we place our faith in Jesus.
If the heart not be changed there can be no baptism of the heart.
If we are to understand God we have to first have spiritual understanding.
We are in the flesh geared for things in the flesh of which our only connection to God is our inner conscience via the spirit.
Phi 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Even the Protestant Martin Luther affirmed the necessity of baptism. He wrote: “Baptism is no human plaything but is instituted by God himself. Moreover, it is solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we shall not be saved. We are not to regard it as an indifferent matter, then, like putting on a new red coat. It is of the greatest importance that we regard baptism as excellent, glorious, and exalted.” (Large Catechism 4:6)>>>Erich
I agree with him in this respect, that unless our hearts are renewed (Born again, circumcised) we shall not be saved while in the flesh, but will be saved at our death.
For all who have not had the opportunity to know Jesus personally, and all who lived and died without God in their lives will meet Jesus at death: Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Righteousness has gone out and shall not return, for EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall swear (Confess) Jesus Christ is lord.
God is greater than any of us can imagine, and to many it is a great mystery.
What fool would dare die for the unjust? That is a mystery that only those of the circumcision can understand.
Peace>>>AJ
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mercygate
Guest
This was a difficult post to follow. Many great things were said. It is almost impossible to figure out who said what.
That said, one point stands out to my mind, and that is, the statement that to be born “of water” is akin to physical birth.
No. It is not. To be saved, one must be born “from above” or “anew” or “again” (depending on your translation) “of water.” This cannot refer to natural birth. I repeat: cannot. Natural physical birth is what makes us “born” the first time. To be born “anew,” “again” or “from above” specifically refers to a second birth. The idea that this refers to natural birth is an idea that I have been unable to trace back before the 19th Century and is purely an exercise in creative ratiocination in an attempt to discredit the idea of baptismal regeneration.
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zerinus
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look3467
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I apologize for not being clearer.
I quoted, and pasted scripture references and the rest is mine.
Originally, in the first creation there was a marriage of heaven and earth.
Adam being the breath of God and Eve being the vessel of clay: they both became one living soul.
The significance of that is that we all as living souls have within us a Godly conscience.
The degree of that depends on our relationship to God.
I agree with you that rebirth is necessary, which is spiritually obtained and add, that it is demonstrably portrayed in the flesh in the form of baptism. (As like Christ)
Water is an earthly thing representing an earthly action while the spirit is a spiritual action.
The latter is a required first and second, is demonstrated as a follow up as an indication of the inner change.
If the second were to be performed without first having an inner action, than baptism is of no use.
You can now see that Baptism without the rebirth can save no one, and that baptism is not a requirement but a demonstration only of what has transpierced in the heart.
Let me quote you this verse that applies to that: Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Being baptized outwardly is not necessarily an indication of an inner birth.
Therefore, it requires and understanding of what baptism really means.
I followed in baptism at the age of 13 fully knowing what I was being baptized for, after my heart was given to Christ, for His management.
Two things to remember in understanding the bible, one are those things which belong to the flesh two, those things which belong to the spirit.
Both are contained in the same vessel and where the determination lies to will our souls to Christ.
Adam the stronger being the breath from above and Eve being the weaker being the vessel from earth.
Peace>>>AJ
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look3467
Guest
I may conclude some of you to be versed deeper in the word which may make some of my comments foreign to some who may not be.
Peace>>>AJ
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wisdomseeker
Guest
uch:
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wisdomseeker
Guest
Is this your enterpretation of the Sacred Scriptures or somebody else tought you this?
**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
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Erich
Guest
These different ways of talking about being “born again” describe effects of baptism, which Christ speaks of in John 3:5 as being “born of water and the Spirit.” In Greek, this phrase is, literally, “born of water and Spirit,” indicating one birth of water-and-Spirit, rather than “born of water and of the Spirit,” as though it meant two different births—one birth of water and one birth of the Spirit.
In the water-and-Spirit rebirth that takes place at baptism, the repentant sinner is transformed from a state of sin to the state of grace. Peter mentioned this transformation from sin to grace when he exhorted people to “be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38).
The context of Jesus’ statements in John 3 makes it clear that he was referring to water baptism. Shortly before Jesus teaches Nicodemus about the necessity and regenerating effect of baptism, he himself was baptized by John the Baptist, and the circumstances are striking: Jesus goes down into the water, and as he is baptized, the heavens open, the Holy Spirit descends upon him in the form of a dove, and the voice of God the Father speaks from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son” (cf. Matt. 3:13–17; Mark 1:9–11; Luke 3:21–22; John 1:30–34). This scene gives us a graphic depiction of what happens at baptism: We are baptized with water, symbolizing our dying with Christ (Rom. 6:3) and our rising with Christ to the newness of life (Rom. 6:4–5); we receive the gift of sanctifying grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27); and we are adopted as God’s sons (Rom. 8:15–17).
After our Lord’s teaching that it is necessary for salvation to be born from above by water and the Spirit (John 3:1–21), “Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized” (John 3:22).
Then we have the witness of the early Church that John 3:5 refers to baptismal regeneration. This was universally recognized by the early Christians. The Church Fathers were unanimous in teaching this.
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