What constitutes a human being?

[davidv]

Animals clearly have a will. What about the human will are you getting at?
I’m certainly not putting words in your mouth, I’m trying to find out your position without resort to the unknowable like the existence of the human soul.

Freedom of will and the responsibility for the consequences of using that freedom. This seems to be the basic premise of any criminal justice system.

You may claim that the existence of the soul is unknowable, but I know.

 

[CatofAlexandria]

Freedom of will and the responsibility for the consequences of using that freedom. This seems to be the basic premise of any criminal justice system.

You may claim that the existence of the soul is unknowable, but I know.

But there are many human beings who are severely mentally ill or developmentally disabled, and they cannot be responsible for the consequences of their actions or be said to have a “free will” as you are using the term.

 

[Doc_Keele]

Freedom of will and the responsibility for the consequences of using that freedom. This seems to be the basic premise of any criminal justice system.

You may claim that the existence of the soul is unknowable, but I know.

Well the issue of free will is a lot more complicated than that, and the fact that certain assumptions are made by criminal justice systems is not itself a proof of free will. You don’t **know **of the existence of the human soul.

 

[o_mlly]

Identities? What do you mean by that?

The quality or condition of being the same as something else.

So you’re defining human being by the existence of personality?

Rational intellect is sufficient.

So people with brain stem death should be ventilated for ever if need be?

No, forever is too long.

 

[Doc_Keele]

All living human tissue is a human, literally being. At death, non-human being occurs for the body; spiritual being continues. We Americans call the corpse “the remains” implying something else retaining existence has left.

So a cancer is a human being?
The placenta is a human being?
An extra toe is a human being?

 

[Doc_Keele]

The quality or condition of being the same as something else

OK - identical. So a human being is just another animal?

Rational intellect is sufficient

So the severely mentally handicapped aren’t human beings? Anencephalic babies?

No, forever is too long.

How long should someone who is brain stem dead be ventilated for?

 

[davidv]

But there are many human beings who are severely mentally ill or developmentally disabled, and they cannot be responsible for the consequences of their actions or be said to have a “free will” as you are using the term.

Are their limitations, which prevent them from demostrating free will, evidence that they don’t have free will?

For example;
I can plan to kill someone. I put in place all of the preparations to do so. The authorities find out about my plan and capture me before I can carry out my plan. Did I will the killing? Did the intervention of the authorities take away my will?

 

[Doc_Keele]

If someone had their head cut off, and someone resuscitated the headless body - would that be a human being and therefore should be kept alive?

 

[robdaddyf]

Great question! An article that I found helpful (and from a more philosophical perspective)…follow the link and let me know what you think of it and if it helped you at all.catholiceducation.org/articles/abortion/ab0045.html

Though it relates directly to questions around abortion I also think it sheds some light on your question…I could be mistaken.

I would have to conclude that the safest “assumption” (could be presumption) to make is to assume BOTH are human persons in the case of conjoined twins. )(o: Two apples with one core or one apple with two cores…you’re still comparing apples with apples…not oranges or orangutans…right?

 

[Doc_Keele]

I would have to conclude that the safest “assumption” (could be presumption) to make is to assume BOTH are human persons in the case of conjoined twins. )(o: Two apples with one core or one apple with two cores…you’re still comparing apples with apples…not oranges or orangutans…right?

What about conjoined twins that share a cerebral connection? So that their brains are not completely separate but have a neural connection?

 

[davidv]

What about conjoined twins that share a cerebral connection? So that their brains are not completely separate but have a neural connection?

How many human souls are embodied?

 

[o_mlly]

I really wouldn’t say that all living human tissue is a human being, o-mlly. I mean, a beating heart, existing outside of the body is living human tissue, but it’s certainly not a human being.

A beating heart outside the body is not living as in its natural state and place.

 

[Doc_Keele]

How many human souls are embodied?

Well that’s the crux of the issue isn’t it?

 

[CatofAlexandria]

Are their limitations, which prevent them from demostrating free will, evidence that they don’t have free will?

For example;
I can plan to kill someone. I put in place all of the preparations to do so. The authorities find out about my plan and capture me before I can carry out my plan. Did I will the killing? Did the intervention of the authorities take away my will?

David,

Thanks for your reply! I am just trying to figure out what your definition of free will is by bringing up the example. You seemed to define it in terms of culpability and the criminal justice system, but there are many people who, we think, do not have the capacity to be culpable (e.g, the severely mentally ill). I am not sure how your example is relevant, as I am speaking of those incapable of planning to kill someone in the first place. It would actually be the opposite: they kill, but they did not choose or plan to do so because their brain is incapable of distinguishing between the merits of many possible actions. When we choose, we deliberate (at least initially). I’m talking about the people who cannot deliberate.

Then again, I understand what you are saying if you are separating the free will of the soul from the expression of free will in the brain.

 

[davidv]

Well that’s the crux of the issue isn’t it?

A human being is constituted from a human soul and a human body.

In order to answer your previous question I need to know how many souls are involved.

A body without a soul is dead

A human soul without a body awaits the resurrection of the dead on the last day.
Any other soul without a body is dead.

 

[Doc_Keele]

A human being is constituted from a human soul and a human body.

In order to answer your previous question I need to know how many souls are involved.

A body without a soul is dead

A human soul without a body awaits the resurrection of the dead on the last day.
Any other soul without a body is dead.

And I repeat, that’s the crux of the issue.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

What structure, capacity, function or anything else constitutes a human being rather than a human animal?

I’ll explain.
If conjoined twins are joined together at the hip, nearly everyone would say that’s two people. What about when there’s two heads sharing one body? Is that two people?

Does everyone here accept that brain stem death is death? That the person is dead?

free will

 

[davidv]

And I repeat, that’s the crux of the issue.

And?

 

[Doc_Keele]

wsp - so someone who can’t exercise free will is not a human being, and everything that can express free will is?

 

[davidv]

so someone who can’t exercise free will is not a human being, and everything that can express free will is?

That is not what was said.