What dear friend, do you find strange about Catholicism?

[frangiuliano115]

Catholics DO NOT worship Mary or saints. Never met one growing up. I used to correct it even in my flaming fundamentalist days. I don’t know of any now. Neither has my wife, a convert.
My ‘reality’ corresponds with many MANY other Catholics. So, your ‘reality’ is extremely small.
Any my ‘Truth’ is Christ.

Well God bless you!

You’re truly lucky to come into contact with only knowledgeable Catholics!

Why not take the time to search some threads here on CAF of persons saying that Mary must be worshipped to attain salvation. it was one of the first threads I came across when joining CAF back in July. I think you’d find it interesting.

I’m happy that your truth is Christ - I do stress this here on CAF and have received some grief over it at times.

As I said previously on a different post, if you want to meet some of these “catholics” come on over.

Hey. Maybe they’re not catholic! They just happen to go to a catholic church. There’s a thought for ya.

Fran

 

[Seekerjn316]

I asked you questions which you have avoided. I was asking them to understand your position. Why you believe the way you do. Your stated objections I assume are based on Scripture but yet you provide none. Instead you ask a question that is answering a question with a question.
Actually the scriptures I quoted answers your questions. Did you read them? What was the point of having Apostles? If they weren’t Bishops what were they? Where did Jesus say " I am doing away with the priesthood? What was the point of telling Peter he would have the keys? I really am curious about the questions I posed in the other post .

“AVOIDED”??!! “Did you read them”, “objections I assume are based on scripture”

While I do expect rudeness here at CAF, it IS less rude than other sites, neither here nor there do I tend to respond to perceived rudeness. My own little quirk. I have read some of your other posts and find them down right rude and arrogant.

To use a quote from a favorite TV program from the 90’s, “Homey don’t play that game.”

Perhaps you would find your questions answered if you displayed a little patience, which in the above post IMO does not display. That you respond with such sentiments to someone you do not know, in a post that again I MO, that seems challenging and with a lack of respect to a “guest” most likely won’t be answered…I do not have the time nor the will to answer such posts.
Why did you assume I avoided answering instead of giving the benefit of the doubt I either did not pay close enough attention or I was busy wh the holidays and had not yet got back to answering all posts which had responded to me directly?

There will be many posts I will not respond to from you and several others of the more “rude” and “accusatory” members here at CAF…as I said, it’s one of my “quirks”.

Good day young man/ young lady, hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

 

[Reuben_J]

“AVOIDED”??!! “Did you read them”, “objections I assume are based on scripture”

While I do expect rudeness here at CAF, it IS less rude than other sites, neither here nor there do I tend to respond to perceived rudeness. My own little quirk. I have read some of your other posts and find them down right rude and arrogant.

To use a quote from a favorite TV program from the 90’s, “Homey don’t play that game.”

Perhaps you would find your questions answered if you displayed a little patience, which in the above post IMO does not display. That you respond with such sentiments to someone you do not know, in a post that again I MO, that seems challenging and with a lack of respect to a “guest” most likely won’t be answered…I do not have the time nor the will to answer such posts.
Why did you assume I avoided answering instead of giving the benefit of the doubt I either did not pay close enough attention or I was busy wh the holidays and had not yet got back to answering all posts which had responded to me directly?

There will be many posts I will not respond to from you and several others of the more “rude” and “accusatory” members here at CAF…as I said, it’s one of my “quirks”.

Good day young man/ young lady, hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

Answering a question with a question would not further good discussion. Maybe you can start again. Anyway, it would be informative for us to hear your answers to those questions.

 

[Memaw]

My dear friend in Christ, no offense taken I’m grateful for the opportunity to at least attemp to clear up you’re issues.

The first issue though don’t understand. I’m a 71 year old life long Catholic who has been very active in teaching, and when called defending our Faith for more than 30 years. I can’t ever reacall however having to explain our beliefs and practices as superstition? Perhaps you can be more specific.

As for you’re second point. I can assure that we informed and practicing Catholics find these WEIRD things to be every bit as strange as do you. Much of this is FED by the secular press who seem always eager to cast aspersions on the RCC in hopes to somehow inflict that MORTAL wound that will finally kill her off:shrug:.

Mt. 16:18 “And the gate of hell shall never prevail against Her.”

Catholicism has over One Billion members; scattered all over the world… One I guess ought to expect some fringe strangeness?

Thank you for you’re post, God Bless you,

Patrick

AMEN, from another lifelong, 79 year old Catholic that taught CCD for over 20 years.

 

[Memaw]

That I believe?
That I know!

The next time you’re in these here parts, come visit me.

I’ll not only introduce you to persons who worship a saint, such as Saint Rocco, Saint Francis, Saint Lawrence, Saint Anthony, the list goes on…

I’ll also bring you to some people who worship non-saints but persons that are just beatified!

Not everyone here understands about worshipping, but I do think things are going to change pretty soon…

Fran

Are you sure your not confusing veneration with Worship??? There is a huge difference you know! God Bless, Memaw

 

[adrift]

I just want to say that the word Eucharist has caused misunderstanding in the church teachings. I liked it better when we used the words Mass and Communion.

Now Eucharistic Celebration is meant to be Mass. Okay. But then we have the Eucharistic prayer and consecration takes place.

Then we have the rite of Communion.

So, it would seem that Eucharistic has two separate meanings and this gets confusing to explain. At least for me. One lady told me she can’t even remember the word “eucharist” ever being used years ago. Honestly, I can’t remember and I’ve forgotten to check it out.

Just a thought. No reply necessary.

Fran

I truly am at a lost of what you are saying here What two separate meanings?
Catholic Dictionary

Definition The true Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, who is really and substantially present under the appearances of bread and wine, in order to offer himself in the sacrifice of the Mass and to be received as spiritual food in Holy Communion. It is called Eucharist, or “thanksgiving,” because at its institution at the Last Supper Christ “gave thanks,” and by this fact it is the supreme object and act of Christian gratitude to God. Although the same name is used, the Eucharist is any one or all three aspects of one mystery, namely the Real Presence, the Sacrifice, and Communion. As Real Presence, the Eucharist is Christ in his abiding existence on earth today; as Sacrifice, it is Christ in his abiding action of High Priest, continuing now to communicate the graces he merited on Calvary; and as Communion, it is Christ coming to enlighten and strengthen the believer by nourishing his soul for eternal life. (Etym. Latin eucharistia, the virtue of thanksgiving or thankfulness; from Greek eucharistia, gratitude; from eu-, good + charizesthai, to show favor.) - See more at: catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33393#sthash.8IkVJN3S.dpuf

I don’t know what you think is a misunderstanding.

 

[adrift]

“AVOIDED”??!! “Did you read them”, “objections I assume are based on scripture”

Your assumption is wrong. As far as I can tell you used no scripture for your objections.

While I do expect rudeness here at CAF, it IS less rude than other sites, neither here nor there do I tend to respond to perceived rudeness. My own little quirk. I have read some of your other posts and find them down right rude and arrogant.

To use a quote from a favorite TV program from the 90’s, “Homey don’t play that game.”

Really? Asking you to clarify is rude. Pointing out that your answer was not an answer but a question is rude? What do you call this answer?
This is call an ad hominem which basically means that you can’t answer so you attack the person:shrug:

Perhaps you would find your questions answered if you displayed a little patience, which in the above post IMO does not display. That you respond with such sentiments to someone you do not know, in a post that again I MO, that seems challenging and with a lack of respect to a “guest” most likely won’t be answered…I do not have the time nor the will to answer such posts.
Why did you assume I avoided answering instead of giving the benefit of the doubt I either did not pay close enough attention or I was busy wh the holidays and had not yet got back to answering all posts which had responded to me directly?

There will be many posts I will not respond to from you and several others of the more “rude” and “accusatory” members here at CAF…as I said, it’s one of my “quirks”.

Good day young man/ young lady, hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

Now you can stomp off feeling very indignant and justified. Your statement might have been right accept that you DID answer and that answer avoided my questions which you still are. I must also remind you that we are ALL guest here.
So your objections that Jesus:
was against the hierarchical requirements put forth in Judaism.
preached against the need of a temple,
and
We didn’t exchange one set of rituals for another set of rituals
are baseless.

 

[adrift]

In what sense do Christians (including Catholics) believe that Jesus has a (human) Mother? Is it Jesus as G-d Who has a Mother, Jesus only as human being Who has a Mother, Jesus the Incarnate Word of G-d Who has a Mother, or Jesus as hypostatic union of G-d and man Who has a Mother? If all of the above, is it really possible for G-d in any Person of the Trinity to have a Mother? This may be easy to answer for a learned Catholic but I find it difficult to understand.

Very interesting question. One many catholics don’t think of.

I know the answer, but let’s see if PJM answers - I think he will.

Fran

Post 77 already answered this

 

[guanophore]

Catholics DO NOT worship Mary or saints. Never met one growing up. I used to correct it even in my flaming fundamentalist days. I don’t know of any now. Neither has my wife, a convert.
My ‘reality’ corresponds with many MANY other Catholics. So, your ‘reality’ is extremely small.
Any my ‘Truth’ is Christ.

I think you need to cut Fran some slack on this one. She is giving a true and accurate testimony of what she has observed in her part of the world. While I agree that worshipping any but God is not Catholicism, there are plenty of baptized/cradle Catholics who do this, ,whether you have met them, or not. There is an ample supply just south of where I live, where Catholic ideas have been conflated with pre-colonial Paganism resulting in a Santeria.

These people need catechesis and conversion, because many of them are sacramentalized but not evangelized. Fran knows what she is talking about on this point.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Are you sure your not confusing veneration with Worship??? There is a huge difference you know! God Bless, Memaw

Of course I know the difference. We could venerate the saints but worship is only for God.

I don’t know why this is so difficult to believe. Another poster is having a problem with this too. Not all Catholics are knowledgeable. Some are worshiping saints and don’t even really know it.

I don’t live in the states. This might have something to do with it. I had told another poster here that I would be happy to have him meet some of these people.

It might be because the posters here are knowledgeable catholics and know their faith. Not everyone does.

I think this is off topic…

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

I think you need to cut Fran some slack on this one. She is giving a true and accurate testimony of what she has observed in her part of the world. While I agree that worshipping any but God is not Catholicism, there are plenty of baptized/cradle Catholics who do this, ,whether you have met them, or not. There is an ample supply just south of where I live, where Catholic ideas have been conflated with pre-colonial Paganism resulting in a Santeria.

These people need catechesis and conversion, because many of them are sacramentalized but not evangelized. Fran knows what she is talking about on this point.

THANK YOU!

Fran

 

[In_His_Grace]

Just for the record, in post #23, I was not expressing contempt for Catholicism, for which I received an infraction. The truth is that there is so much that I truly do admire about Catholicism. I was simply pointing out the reality on the ground that in many 3rd world countries the Catholic Church has a serious problem with poorly catechized Catholics mixing Catholicism with superstition, the occult, and paganism. What the Catholic Church can do to address this issue I have no idea. Any thoughts?

Blessings

 

[PJM]

=guanophore;13469280]I think it is because Catholics believe that Jesus only founded ONE CHURCH. There is not one church with a “small c” and another with a “big C”. He only has one Church.

It is yet one more false dichotomy that you have created.

No my friend;

Show me just one example of God ever being 'OK" with competing faiths. There is no such thing in the bible.

What we Do find in the bible is God’s retribution time and time again as the Jews slipped and slided into OTHER faiths. WHY?

Because God is “One” [the 1st commandment]

Even God can only hold one belief per defined issue.

That is precisely why God Yahweh of the OT chose ONLY One people. Exo. 6:7 and in doing so HOPED all would understand that if they are not a part of that “One” Church who alone can teach the FULLNESS of God’s truths; then they are in some manner and to varying degrees in competition with God and what HE Desires. Amen!

& That is Why Jesus followed his own Tradition by establishing just One Chosen people which He called : Mt. 16:18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon [YOU Peter] this rock** I will build my church [Singular]**, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to YOU [all of] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

Christ choose to do this so that people COULD know if they are not members of that One Church; then they ought to rethink their faith beliefs; because what you belief is NOT what Christ desired be taught: Mt. 28: 16-20 "And the eleven [remaining] apostles went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. [before Pentecost] And*** Jesus coming, spoke to them***, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world".

READ please mt. 10: 1-8 & John 17: 16-20

One God

Only One set of Faith beliefs

Only One Church to find the fullness of God’s Teachings as proven in these Bible passages I just exposed to you.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven

Any and all faiths outside and not fully aligned with the Catholic Church is competing with God.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=Michael68;13470111]Jesus is not re sacrificed at Mass. He offers Himself to us in the Holy Eucharist. The sacrifice you are speaking of is bread and wine

Know Michael

We term the Eucharist:

1. The REAL=Presence precisely because it is; IT IS, the Glorified Body Blood, Soul and Divinity [THEE ENTIRE CHRIST!]
2. Eucharist is a Sacrificial offering precisely BECAUSE:

It IS a RE-presentation of the one original Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross; because even Jesus in his human nature [Jesus always Had TWO perfect-natures human and Divine] can only die one time. [Actually He could choose otherwise as well]. But it is that one original sacrifice made present time and time again until time immortal; that happrens in the Catholic Mass.

1. This is a Miracle and a Mystery [can’t be LOGICALLY understood], which is why religious practices are term 'Our Faith"

Jesus in His Now GLORIFIED and Risen Body is made present to US when the priest holds up the Bread and says: THIS IN MY BODY. When he lowers what still looks like bread [termed the "accidents’] it IS NOW JESUS!

Similarly with the Chalice of wine: When the priest hold it u and proclaims THIS IS MY BLOOD of the new covenant; that which still has the appearance of wine has noe become the very Blood of Christ Resurrected and Glorified Body.

It is NOT

NOT a sign
NOT a symbol
NOT merely a remembrance

It is; IT IS Jesus Christ Himself: Body, Blood Soul and Divinity:thumbsup:

My friend if you’s like more information on this just send me a private message.

JESUS IS RE-SACRIFICED AT Mass BUT it is always the SAME original sacrifice. Not a new sacrifice each time. Amen!

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[PJM]

=TonyBS;13470170]Patrick - I Have always liked the Spiritual Truths enshrined in those Biblical Verses and take them to heart.

In the end it is still a spiritual understanding that prevails, as the miraculous changes you noted, do not actually happen, or are you saying they do?

Another question I would ask, is there really a Priest that would consider this to be so? “1st Miracle - The priest is mysteriously transformed into 'Alter Christi” [another CHRIST] at the very instant of the Consecration. Would they think they are are “Anointed by God”.

God Bless and Regards Tony

My friend THEY DO happen:thumbsup:

Google “Eucharistic Miracles” and check it out for yourself.

God Bless my friend

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=adamhovey1988;13470378]Nothing strange with the faith. But I do find some individual Catholics strange in the fact that many don’t seem to actually believe their faith. That I find strange.

TRUE and that is precisely the motive for MANY of us being here on CAF:thumbsup:

Thanks and God Bless,

Patrick

 

[guanophore]

No my friend;

Show me just one example of God ever being 'OK" with competing faiths. There is no such thing in the bible.

Certainly there are. They are referred to as schismatics, heretics, etc. etc.

But I was not referring to that. Fran has a concept that the local parish in neighborhood is the “church” with the small C, and it is somehow separated or different from the Church with the captial C that Jesus founded?

It is a false dichotomy.

 What we Do find in the bible is God's retribution time and time again as the Jews  slipped and slided into OTHER  faiths. WHY?

Because God is “One” [the 1st commandment]

Christ choose to do this so that people COULD know if they are not members of that One Church; then they ought to rethink their faith beliefs; because what you belief is NOT what Christ desired be taught: Mt. 28: 16-20 "And the eleven [remaining] apostles went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

I would say that this is the main purpose of CAF, wouldn’t you?

**Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU**: a**nd behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world".**

This is one reason I say that Jesus gave the teaching authority to the Church, not the Scriptures (though they are profitable in the task).

Only One set of Faith beliefs

Only One Church to find the fullness of God’s Teachings as proven in these Bible passages I just exposed to you.

Any and all faiths outside and not fully aligned with the Catholic Church is competing with God.

God Bless you,

Patrick

Jesus taught that “he who is not against us is for us”, and the CCC teaches that His Truth can be found in most world religions, especially in the ecclesial communities of our separated brethren, who have retained a large amount of Catholic Sacred Tradition.

Great posting, Patrick, keep up the good work.

 

[Michael68]

Thank You Patrick for clearing that up for me!!!

 

[PJM]

=frangiuliano115;13470736]In what sense do Christians (including Catholics) believe that Jesus has a (human) Mother? Is it Jesus as G-d Who has a Mother, Jesus only as human being Who has a Mother, Jesus the Incarnate Word of G-d Who has a Mother, or Jesus as hypostatic union of G-d and man Who has a Mother? If all of the above, is it really possible for G-d in any Person of the Trinity to have a Mother? This may be easy to answer for a learned Catholic but I find it difficult to understand.

Very interesting question. One many catholics don’t think of.

I know the answer, but let’s see if PJM answers - I think he will.

Fran

THANKS Fran:

Sure we can prove it Bionically; and through the many Miracles that Jesus Her Son permits Her to do in order to lead more Souls to Her Son.

My friend might I suggest you READ John 19:26 -30 which explains a great deal about Marian Miracles; which I suggest you GOOGLE.

Now for your question:

The “to come Birth of Jesus” was prophesied at lest 700 YEARS before it happened:

That the Messiah [Jesus] would be born from a women was prophesied in the 1st Book of the Bible; now some 4,000 or so years ago;
Genesis 3:15 “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel”.

**Isiah 7:14 **“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.” A Name that means GOD IS WITH US

**And again in Psalm 2:7 **.prophised that he would be called the SON OF GOD:
“The Lord hath said to me: Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee”

**Lk. 1: 26-35 **
"And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth,To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’ s name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. [33] And of his kingdom there shall be no end. And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? [MEANING I’m a Virgin] [35] And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God

There is also secular historical information available: Google "secular evidence of Jesus"

Space is limited here on CAF or I’d do it for you.

God Bless you and thanks for asking!

Thanks Fran!

Patrick

 

[Peter_J]

Sorry, I have been to numerous masses but it never gave me the answer.

If I may ask, at present are most of your interactions with Catholics through websites?