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PJM
Guest
And yet that is man’s POST Original sin destiny. WHY?
Because SOME of the angels failed Him; then Adam and Eve Failed Him; so God now insist as our Creator that each of us; through the Crosses either designed for us by Jesus or permitted by Him, to prove our Love and worthiness to Him.
Take Up your Cross and Follow Me
**Phil.2: 8 **“And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”
God Bless you; Pray much my friend,
Pareick
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PJM
Guest
Personally; I’m unaware that he is:shrug:=randomuser;13487516]Constantine. How did Constantine get to be such a taboo topic among Catholics?
I do know that some Christians think he started the RCC and some such silliness.
God Bless you
Patrick
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Peter_J
Guest
OIC. I wasn’t sure if it was TiC or not.
This may or may not help, but my 2 cents is that “Praying to not-God” can be justified; but it bothers me that very many of my fellow Catholics act as though it doesn’t even *need *to be justified or explained – as though Protestants being scandalized by it is just phony, or as though Protestants just invented a new meaning of the word “pray to” in order to condemn Catholics.
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PJM
Guest
I’m disappointed NOT in you; but in those charged with teaching you our Catholic Faith; and failing to do so on so many topics.
CAF has limited post space: sorry 4 the brief replies
PURGATORY:
Just as both hell and heaven flow from God’s necessary sense of Justice and fairness; purgatory which might be graphically described as “Gods Soul wash” It’s a very profound topic worthy of more space
1Tim.2: 4 Because God desires that all men be saved [which he knows is NOT going to happen] and because a soul must literally be [perfect in order to attain heaven] Mt 5:48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect,” Many souls not “worthy” of hell; yet R imperfect, unsuitable for heaven would be LOST; without Purgatory. Which does have multiple bible references: **1 Cor. 3: 15 **for example: “If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire”. Like the terms Bible, Catholic & Protestant are also not found in God’s WORD; they nevertheless are therein spoken of
The required perfection of one’s Soul to enter heaven deals with the Nature of all sin.
All sin has a public nature God directly imposes. Take for example adultery, abortion, theft and slander. Each of these sins has as do ALL sin; a “public nature,” meaning others; the Church, Church members, family and others are effected by our sins even if we are unaware of it.
Divine Justice directly imposes a penalty which must be fully repaid by God’s standard; before one can attain heaven.
Even Sacramental Confession; which forgives and forget the sin; fails to remit this “Temporal Punishment” [TP] all sin incurs.
God alone in the bookkeeper of this TP, Prayers and works of mercy; especially our charity repay the debt in part. Exactly how large the debt is and just how much debt is repaid in God’s call.
The Church is GOD authorized Mt 16:15-19] through INDULGENCES; [the authority of THEE Key’s] which we’ll define here as: partial and or full repayment of the debt of TP that is conditional on the precise “DO THIS” to receive THIS repayment directions the Church gives.
Indulgence have a crucial role in perfecting souls that otherwise could never attain heaven; despite dying with no unconfessed or unforgiven Mortal sins Jn 20:19-23 on their souls. 1 Jn 5:16-17
Assumption of Mary:
This is NOT something Mary did on Her own. It’s Grace and a GIFT from Her Son Jesus.
It has 2 precedents in the OT of which space only permits the Bible references for you 2 look up**: Gen 5: 22-24 & 2 Kings 2: 8-14**
PRAYING NOT TO GOD
All Catholic prayers ARE intended to end with God! No exceptions.
Intercessory prayers are NOT mandated in the RCC. Catholic can do this as an extension of one’s personal-piety. Sometimes called idolaters for doing so. This is a ignorant position:** READ Exo 25:18, 20 & Num. 21: 8-9** and see that God himself commanded Moses to build idols for Him
It’s not the item or person we choose to pray to; BUT the intended result of our choices.
Mary and the Saints intercede on our behalf by being in God’s presence; taking our petitions and ADDING their own on -top of our and then personally presenting to God; thus increasing their efficacy
Clerical Celibacy
All call’s to religious life that demand Celibacy are freely agreed too prior to taking of Vows. The Church now some 2,000 years old has tried it both ways and speaks from vast experience on this matter.
Becoming a religious is completely voluntary. They OFFER to God their sexuality as a sign of their love of and for God. God then responds by offering them sufficient Grace to live that state of Life.
st Cor. 7: 32-40
By remaining unattached they are able to serve their God full time w/o the distractions and obligations of married.
ADDING TO THE WORD OF GOD
**The Bible was birthed by the CC. She exist for the Bible; NOT the Bible for The Church. The CC culled **
The Church chose the OT books to be included, It was the first Catholics who authored the ENTIRE NT. Jesus Himself gives to the Church not merely an option but a COMMAND to Teach al that He taught them.** READ the last 2 verses in Jn 21 & 22 **and note that NOT everything is or was intended to be in the Bible!
Mt. 16:18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU [all of] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Mt. 28:18-20 “And Jesus came and said to them, "… [YOU] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have** commanded & taught] YOU**; and lo, I am with YOU always, to the close of the age."
Patrick
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PJM
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Got it; THANKS!
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benhur
Guest
Hi rc’ Got it and thank for the kind words.
I understand your point that truth can come form many sources, even an office, even truth held in unrighteousness. That is why I have said in the past I would listen, follow, obey Pope Francis on many things, but I would not set aside any “bewares” of any leaven, or think his words infallible.
I think teaching bad doctrine is a kind of evil, as the Pharisees did. Not sure why you would say “not evil”. That one follows evil blindly still makes you following, and doing the evil.
Blessings
E
eazyduzit
Guest
Sorry Patrick, I don’t know where you got the idea that we don’t believe the Bible. What we do*have a problem with is your isolated interpretation.REPLYING TO MY POST #373
Actually you have the right idea but have inverted what is thee [God’s actual] truth.
Many if not most protestants Do Not believe the following which are all clearly expressed as God’s desire in the Bible:
Just One Church: Mt. 18:18-19
The Primacy of Peter: Mt 16: 18-19; Jn 21: 15-17
One and only one true set of faith beliefs Mt 28:18-20 & Jn 17: 16-20
The Real Presence in Catholic Holy Communion M
Mt. 26:26-28
Mk 14: 22-24
Lk 22: 17-20
Jn 6: 47-57
Paul 1st. Cor. 11:23-30
Forgiveness of sin GOD"S WAY 1 Jn 1:5-6; 1 Jn 5: 16-17 & Jn 20:19-23
So my friend I have provided evidence of the Catholic position; PLEASE do us the favor of providing the evidence of YOUR POSITION
God Bless you,
Patrick [the OP]
If you want to believe that Peter is the rock rather than Jesus because it serves your agenda, the good for you, but don’t hold it against others.
We also believe there is one church, but that church is the Mystical Body of Christ and not an earthly organization. When St.Paul is speaking of the earthly organizations, he uses “churches” ,plural, as in 1Thes. 2:14, " For ye brethren became followers of the churches of God…", not the one single Church of Rome. (and 19 other verses in Paul’s letters).
When Luke and Mark recall the scene they do not include the verse about the rock and Peter, presumably because it is not of prime importance.
We do not accept that the communion bread becomes a physical body through an on demand instant miracle. The Catholic priest says “may this bread and wine become…” Jesus did not use the word “become”, so it is not the same. Also, i would ask, what benefit would a physical relationship with Christ be? We need to be strengthened in spirit, not in the flesh.
And yes we believe there is only one gospel as St. Paul presented it.
Shalom,
Jerry
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eazyduzit
Guest
Let me clarify for you concerning the need for sacrificing for sins in the NT.Correct and VERY incorrect for our Christian believing Brethern
They are SOLD on this idea because it is appealing and easy. ALL that is required [if I have a full and correct understanding of the theology] is a professed “I believe and accept Jesus as My LORD and Savior” and that salvation is a done deal.
They overlook or ignore what the entirety of the bible teaches:
That Christ gave ALL of the keys [along with the Fullness of Christ True Faith] to Peter and through Him, to today’s Catholic Church Mt 16: 18-19 & Mt 28:16-20
They overlook the sin teachings and the need for sacrifices
1 Jn 1: 5-6
1 Jn 5:16-17
Jn 20:19-23
**John.20 Verses 20 to 23"**On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Take up your Cross and then “FOLLOW [what I did] me”
Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.**Mark.8: 34 **And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” Matt.5: 19 “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. “ **Matt.19: 17 **“And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”
They risk their eternity on man’s recent innovative theories [16th century on]. And thereby reject God and what God himself traches:blush:
God Bless you,
Patrick [OP]
Heb.10:18 says “Now where remission of these is, there is NO MORE offering for sin.”
This is God’s word,not an innovative theory.
Obeying the Bible is not risking eternity, but rather insuring it.
Jerry
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frangiuliano115
Guest
Hi PJM
Maybe I see God as an Almighty presence, hovering over us, desiring that all get to know Him - the creator of the universe and of every living creature.
I see that catholics and protestants have more in common than what they may disagree on. They disagree on those ideas for them, and doctrine for us, like purgatory, praying to non God, and those other things brought up by Zoe.
But we agree on what it is that gets us to know God and gets us to be with Him for eternity. Grace, faith, justification, sanctification, and finally glorification.
We both agree that it is faith and not works that justify, or save us. Works follow. Protestants agree on this.
We both agree that works are a fruit of the spirit.
It saddens me to read on these threads that protestants do NOT believe in works, since this is not true.
It saddens me to read that they all believe in OSAS since this is not true.
The reason it’s saddening is because it creates distance between us when, in fact, we are serving the same God and the same Jesus.
You say:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Correct and VERY incorrect for our Christian believing Brethern
They are SOLD on this idea because it is appealing and easy. ALL that is required [if I have a full and correct understanding of the theology] is a professed “I believe and accept Jesus as My LORD and Savior” and that salvation is a done deal.
The above is not correct. You do not have a correct understanding of the theology. It is never a done deal. It’s a life-long process and they know this well. WE also must accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, don’t you think? But then it goes on…It does not end there.
This is why they misunderstand what we teach and why they think we believe we are saved by our works when in reality the CC does not teach this. If you read all current theology of the CC you’ll find that we believe the same things they do! Lumen gentium, the CCC, the Vat II docs.
For instance, you say:
They risk their eternity on man’s recent innovative theories [16th century on]. And thereby reject God and what God himself traches post. 422
For instance, which theories would those be?
We could maybe debate on the differences, but I’m seeing debating on stuff we agree on but use preconceived notions of the other side.
I agree with Pope Francis that we should not be fundamentalists, following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. His terms. I’m not even sure what he means by “fundamentalist”. I call it legalism, maybe it’s the same thing. This is what I mean also about using “words”. We use them, sometimes not even knowing how the other person understands them.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I’m not here to change anybody’s mind. We’re all big people and know what we know.
I must say though, being surrounded by persons who know very little, or nothing, about their religion, that it’s been very encouraging for me to see so many here that know their theology, even their Greek!, and really have an understanding of their faith. Most persons I know are not even interested in reading the bible - which is why I love CAF.
Fran
Maybe I see God as an Almighty presence, hovering over us, desiring that all get to know Him - the creator of the universe and of every living creature.
I see that catholics and protestants have more in common than what they may disagree on. They disagree on those ideas for them, and doctrine for us, like purgatory, praying to non God, and those other things brought up by Zoe.
But we agree on what it is that gets us to know God and gets us to be with Him for eternity. Grace, faith, justification, sanctification, and finally glorification.
We both agree that it is faith and not works that justify, or save us. Works follow. Protestants agree on this.
We both agree that works are a fruit of the spirit.
It saddens me to read on these threads that protestants do NOT believe in works, since this is not true.
It saddens me to read that they all believe in OSAS since this is not true.
The reason it’s saddening is because it creates distance between us when, in fact, we are serving the same God and the same Jesus.
You say:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Correct and VERY incorrect for our Christian believing Brethern
They are SOLD on this idea because it is appealing and easy. ALL that is required [if I have a full and correct understanding of the theology] is a professed “I believe and accept Jesus as My LORD and Savior” and that salvation is a done deal.
The above is not correct. You do not have a correct understanding of the theology. It is never a done deal. It’s a life-long process and they know this well. WE also must accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, don’t you think? But then it goes on…It does not end there.
This is why they misunderstand what we teach and why they think we believe we are saved by our works when in reality the CC does not teach this. If you read all current theology of the CC you’ll find that we believe the same things they do! Lumen gentium, the CCC, the Vat II docs.
For instance, you say:
They risk their eternity on man’s recent innovative theories [16th century on]. And thereby reject God and what God himself traches post. 422
For instance, which theories would those be?
We could maybe debate on the differences, but I’m seeing debating on stuff we agree on but use preconceived notions of the other side.
I agree with Pope Francis that we should not be fundamentalists, following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. His terms. I’m not even sure what he means by “fundamentalist”. I call it legalism, maybe it’s the same thing. This is what I mean also about using “words”. We use them, sometimes not even knowing how the other person understands them.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I’m not here to change anybody’s mind. We’re all big people and know what we know.
I must say though, being surrounded by persons who know very little, or nothing, about their religion, that it’s been very encouraging for me to see so many here that know their theology, even their Greek!, and really have an understanding of their faith. Most persons I know are not even interested in reading the bible - which is why I love CAF.
Fran
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frangiuliano115
Guest
This is what I mean PJM –
eazyduzit is saying in his below post, exactly what we also believe!
Jesus was the last sacrifice. No more are necessary.
So what are we talking about here???
See?
Fran
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
eazyduzit is saying in his below post, exactly what we also believe!
Jesus was the last sacrifice. No more are necessary.
So what are we talking about here???
See?
Fran
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PJM
Guest
**My friend, have you ever heard of the Infallible rule for right understanding of the bible?
Permit me to share it and then ask a question.
Never ever can, may or Does
One verse, passage or teaching have the authority to
invalidate, make void or override another verse, passage or teaching. WHY?
Because such even as the slightest possibility would render the entire bible worthless to teach or learn one’s faith. Amen**
**2 Timothy 3: 16-17 **
“16] All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work”.
Matthew 4:4
Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God."
**As I have shared earlier; the Bible is a Catholic book.
We selected guided by the Holy Spirit all the OT 46 books
We authored the entire New Testament
& We Codified the Bible**
Mt 16:18-19 clearly teaches that Jesus founded His Church [Eph. 4:1-7] singular on Peter and the 12 Apostles [Mt 10:1-5]; and entrusted Peter with ALL of the key’s to heaven. Mt 16:19
Mt. 28: 18-20 very clearly states that Jesus commands THEM [the Apostles and their successors by absolute necessity] directly and exclusively: Cf. YOU GO and TEACH the entire world what I have taught and commanded YOU"
**Mt. 16: 19 **also has God promising that the "gates of hell shall never prevail against HIS Church’
Today’s RCC is some 2,000 years old and is both Bionically & historically provable to be the Church desired, founded, guided and protected by God.
Then we have Christ in his human nature praying to His Father on behalf if his Apostles and His Church. in Jn 17: 6-25. Here are verses 16-20 Jesus also God cannot deny his own request
John 17: 16:20
[16] They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world. [17] Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. [18] As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. [19] And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. [20]** And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me;
**
**In vs. 18: **Jesus is giving them and his Church [which I will further prove shortly] the same kinds of Authority & Power that “The Father” HAD sent and given to him. [repeated in Jn 20:21 BTW]
In vs. 19: Jesus gives Himself as the PERSONAL Warranty of their teaching ONLY the truth on Faith beliefs and Morals: NO OTHER FAITH; NO OTHER CHURCH CAN MAKE AND SUPPORT THIS CLAIM BUT CATHOLICISM:thumbsup:
In vs. 20: Jesus even explains that He does the above so that folks like you would believe:thumbsup:
Eph. 2:19-22
[19] So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, **20] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, **[21] in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple [singular] in the Lord; [22] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit"
So my fiend first the partial evidence; there’s a lot more
Now the question.God who can be described as “ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED” established clearly:
One true God [the 1st Commandment].
With only one set of faith beliefs which:
Even God can not have different and often contradictory beliefs on the same defined issues. IMPOSSIBLE
And OT “One Chosen people” Exodus. 6:7
NT One Chosen people NOW called “MY Church” …singular[Mt. 16:18]
Consider my question carefully and prayerfully:
REALLY Now: Could God have waited for Wycliffe, Luther, or Calvin; about 1,500 years AFTER he had founded His Catholic Church to make known HIS faith beliefs. ALL 3 of the above named mortal men left the Catholic Church to establish there own churches and faith beliefs in direct competition with what Jesus Christ desired and established.
So because your bible literate; where exactly in the Bible has God; even one time permitted, tolerated, accepted, or allowed competing faith beliefs:shrug:.
God Bless you!
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
Hi Jerry
I don’t think I said that you don’t “believe” the bible so much as you just don’t correctly understand it
If I implied anything else; I’m truly sorry.
God Bless you,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
Your extrapolation of Church and “Churches” is a graet example of what I mean in claiming that you do NOT understand the bible
“Church” SINGULAR and “Churches” PLURAL ARE the same CHURCH [same God; same set of Faith beliefs and same Hireacrachy.
HOW DO WE KNOW THIS?
**From the time of Jesus and the Apostles and up to 1054 A.D. the ONLY “Church” or “Churches” if you prefer? To exist anywhere in the entire WORLD were today’s Catholic Churches. **1054 is the date of the Great Eastern Schism **when they too separated from the long existing Catholic Church.
Eph. 4: 1-7
[1] I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, [2] with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, ** [3] eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace:.
[4] There is one body [Means just one Church]and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
[5] one Lord, one faith,** [Means exactly that: Just ONE set of faith beliefs] one baptism,
[6] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.
[7] But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Which means that God hrants RIGHT Understanding to whom it pleases HIM to do so.
Mt. 13: 10-12
" And his disciples came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them in parables?
Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given. [12] For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he shall abound: but he that hath not, from him shall be taken away that also which he hath"
God Bless you friend,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
On no MORE OFFERING fir sin we agree:thumbsup: BUT here’s what your NOT understanding: WHY is this?
BIBLE QUOTES:
Matt. 12: 30 “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.
Isaiah 43: 7 & 21 “And every one that calleth upon my name, I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, and made him. & This people have I formed for myself, [Genesis 1: 26-27] they shall shew forth my praise.”
Matthew 5:13-16
“You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.”
Matthew 5:43-48
You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors* do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect”
1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
John.20 Verses 20 to 23"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Jesus could not have chosen more precise words to teach what HE desires be taught, accepted and believed. Amen!
God Bless you,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
Hi Fran
I Do understand your position.
BUT your trying to redefine “truth” which I have pointed out to you; IS AS TRUTH MUST BE: singular per define issue.
you seem quite content is allowing others to believe what ever THEY CHOOSE [Not God] choose to believe. God is not OK with that, nor should WE be.
This is a CATHOLIC Form: we have amoral responsibility to actually TEACH what our God [Thee God] commands US to. Mt. 28:19-20.
I’m ALL for LOVE:thumbsup:
But Perfect Love; the kind Jesus as PERFECT God desires; even demands; has to be based on TRUTH. Anything else is muddled and unclear.
And I don’t take it personally that your trying to subvert what I teach. You and God can have that discussion:blush:
God Bless you,
Patrick
God Bless you
;
P
Peter_J
Guest
Hi Jerry. Let me confess up front that I didn’t read everything that came before this, but I’d like to ask What is your take on Christian (particularly Catholic) churches having altars?
R
rcwitness
Guest
Thanks for your good dialogue also, ben.
I think there is something here, between the old and new hierarchy that is in common and that is different. I think the point made about the old hierarchy was that, until the old was put away, Jesus commanded to oserve and obey whatever was commanded by those who sat in the seat of Moses (authority).
This isn’t the same thing as the doctrine of Infallibility in the Church of the New Covenant. The Church doesn’t Teach that the Pharisees had Infallibility, but rather authority of law, if I’m not mistaken. But the high Priest, in the capacity of the conditions then, prophesied at the council concerning Jesus’ destiny.
Differences in ordinances and declaring a Truth should be discerned here. And we aren’t told explicitly why the Apostles were told to “beware” of the doctrine of the Pharisees. Jesus does, however, go into great lengths to show the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
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guanophore
Guest
B
benhur
Guest
" **And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”**Hi PJM,
To my knowledge there is no evidence that the apostles had confessional time or ‘heard’ confessions . We do have evidence that the early church confessed before the congregation.
Blessings
- Status