What Denominations Believe in the Real Presence and Who Actually Has It

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Bergon said:
That I don’t doubt.

You gave me the impression I ought to be saying it as a Catholic.🤷

It might be current, authentic teaching of the Church. I don’t feel comfortable reiterating it to my fellow Christians. I don’t see what I can achieve by doing it.

I did it in the end in irony.
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No, no. What I intended to convey is that I never get upset when a RC affirms what the RCC requires to be affirmed, at the appropriate level of theological certainty. I understand that. Be at ease, in this case, at least.

GKC
 
My sense is that all Christians taking holy Communion are receiving the Real Presence of Christ whether they believe or not.

When Jesus appeared to St Thomas our response is the same “My Lord and my God” at the elevation of the host and cup.

St John 20: 29 "Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 
Bergon said:
It might be current, authentic teaching of the Church. I don’t feel comfortable reiterating it to my fellow Christians. I don’t see what I can achieve by doing it.
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I know you’re trepedation, and even though I disagree (obviously… as I’m Lutheran) but if done with love and care, sharing what you know to be the truth may not persuade but it also may get others to think.

Frankly, If I can’t defend my Lutheran standpoint, then I should do something about it.

And as noted by Penn Jillette a rather amusing person and atheist, with a bit of hyperbole:

“How much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate someone to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?”

youtube.com/watch?v=qCdCVto2MN8

So if anything, I encourage you to express your Catholic faith - do it with love and kindness like you have here and no-one will have cause to complain.
 
Boulder257 said:
Two part questions:
  1. What denominations believe in the real presence?
I need to point out that I am not interested in arguing the merits of the different arguments. I just want to know who claims to have the real presence. We can argue about who actually does in another thread.
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The Gnostics believe in it. Here’s a quote from their website on their page about the Sacrament of Communion:
When this ritual is performed correctly, what actually happens - not by belief, and not just because it is a tradition -the bread and the wine literally become atoms of Christ. Literally. Normally we talk about things being symbolic; well, I am telling you the opposite now.
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Sacrament of Communion
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I should say I find your second question, about who actually has it, to be far more interesting. Who believes in the Real Presence is just a statement of facts. There’s not really much to say. But as to the validity of the sacrament, that is a different issue entirely, because that gets into the science of what makes the Transubstantiation real. Please let us know when you start up that new thread with the second half of your question. I look forward to following it.
 
I believe the Lutherans, Anglicans, but I think only Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have it legitimately consecrated
 
My parish is Episcopalian and Lutheran (TEC & ELCA), with both formal affiliations. Since those denominations are in full communion, there is no conflict. Some of us consider ourselves Episcopalian, some Lutheran, and some (like me) equally both. Most of us (including me) believe in Real Presence in some form, though it is not required.
 
In my Parish and Church (CEC) we believe in the Real Presence, it is not optional.
 
One time I was discussing the Real Presence with someone with Pentecostal leanings and he said he believed in the Real Presence. He did not use the normal terms but what he described was essentially the same thing. He said that he got it out of the Bible and he knew a few other people who saw it the same way. I found it very unusual to hear that from a non-Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Lutheran. I highly doubt he is the norm.
 
hockeyfan said:
One time I was discussing the Real Presence with someone with Pentecostal leanings and he said he believed in the Real Presence. He did not use the normal terms but what he described was essentially the same thing. He said that he got it out of the Bible and he knew a few other people who saw it the same way. I found it very unusual to hear that from a non-Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Lutheran. I highly doubt he is the norm.
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Maybe more normal than you think though. Though I’m Episcopal and Lutheran now, I’m former Assemblies of God (which is non-crazy trinitarian Pentecostal), and that belief was not uncommon in that church.
 
hockeyfan said:
One time I was discussing the Real Presence with someone with Pentecostal leanings and he said he believed in the Real Presence. He did not use the normal terms but what he described was essentially the same thing. He said that he got it out of the Bible and he knew a few other people who saw it the same way. I found it very unusual to hear that from a non-Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Lutheran. I highly doubt he is the norm.
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Most Pentecostals are somewhere on the spectrum between the memorialist view and the spiritual presence view. I don’t think any Pentecostal would ever subscribe to Transubstantiation, but I could imagine some may believe in a very radical form of pneumatic-presence that borders on Real Presence. Likewise, others may just read the relevant passages in a highly literal way.
 
ltwin said:
Most Pentecostals are somewhere on the spectrum between the memorialist view and the spiritual presence view. I don’t think any Pentecostal would ever subscribe to Transubstantiation, but I could imagine some may believe in **a very radical form of pneumatic-presence that borders on Real Presence. **Likewise, others may just read the relevant passages in a highly literal way.
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The part I bolded is probably the best description I’ve ever seen of my own position. 👍
 
Izdaari said:
The part I bolded is probably the best description I’ve ever seen of my own position. 👍
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Izdaari,

You are the first poster that I know of who actually belongs to a merged Episcopal/ Lutheran parish. It would be great to hear more about your parish. đź‘Ť
 
Izdaari said:
Maybe more normal than you think though. Though I’m Episcopal and Lutheran now, I’m former Assemblies of God (which is non-crazy trinitarian Pentecostal), and that belief was not uncommon in that church.
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ltwin said:
Most Pentecostals are somewhere on the spectrum between the memorialist view and the spiritual presence view. I don’t think any Pentecostal would ever subscribe to Transubstantiation, but I could imagine some may believe in a very radical form of pneumatic-presence that borders on Real Presence. Likewise, others may just read the relevant passages in a highly literal way.
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If this is as common as the two of you are making it sound, they should be counted on the list of those who believe in a real presence.
 
hockeyfan said:
If this is as common as the two of you are making it sound, they should be counted on the list of those who believe in a real presence.
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Maybe, but it wouldn’t be your standard conception of “Real Presence” that a Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, or Orthodox would subscribe to. To tell the truth, there has been very little sustained discussion by Pentecostals as to how Christ is present in the Lord’s Supper.

Holy Communion, for Pentecostals, is primarily a rite that calls the church to unity in Christ, that is a celebration of Christ’s sacrificial death (i.e. a reminder that Christians are participants in an ongoing redemptive event; the Christian Passover), and where the Holy Spirit ministers to communicants.

Pentecostals typically believe that Christ’s tangible, manifest presence can be made known at any moment, not just in a sacrament. But often in taking communion, the Lord’s presence will be felt and there will be weeping, shouting, and deeper insight into Christ’s redemptive work.

There is a strong belief in the healing properties of the Lord’s Supper. William Seymour of Azusa St. wrote:

Many are sickly and fall asleep because they do not dIscern the Lord’s body. . . . You come to the Lord’s table and yet you do not believe in full salvation for soul and body. You take the cup and eat the bread, and yet deny the body of the Lord for health and salvation. So you are sick because you do not discern the body of the Lord. . . . Dear beloved this means that we must honor the atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ in all its fullness . . . Let us take the Lamb’s body through faith in our Lord for salvation and healing of these bodies as we honor His blood for saving and sanctifying our soul and spirit. Amen.
​

Cecil Knight writes:

There is deep spiritual meaning in the Lord’s Supper. The participant does not merely look at the symbols; he receives spiritual food. Just as the bread and the fruit of the vine will nourish and invigorate the body of man, so Christ, through Communion, sustains and quickens the soul. When a Christian truly worships Christ in the Lord’s Supper, he is ministered to by the Holy Spirit, thereby receiving strength and a deep abiding peace
​

However, this can all be understood in terms of pneumatic presence and does not require a corporeal explanation.Which is why I said some Pentecostals may subscribe to a radical form of pneumatic presence that borders on Real Presence but is probably not quite your standard concept of Real Presence.
 
ltwin said:
Maybe, but it wouldn’t be your standard conception of “Real Presence” that a Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, or Orthodox would subscribe to. To tell the truth, there has been very little sustained discussion by Pentecostals as to how Christ is present in the Lord’s Supper.

Holy Communion, for Pentecostals, is primarily a rite that calls the church to unity in Christ, that is a celebration of Christ’s sacrificial death (i.e. a reminder that Christians are participants in an ongoing redemptive event; the Christian Passover), and where the Holy Spirit ministers to communicants.

Pentecostals typically believe that Christ’s tangible, manifest presence can be made known at any moment, not just in a sacrament. But often in taking communion, the Lord’s presence will be felt and there will be weeping, shouting, and deeper insight into Christ’s redemptive work.

There is a strong belief in the healing properties of the Lord’s Supper. William Seymour of Azusa St. wrote:

Many are sickly and fall asleep because they do not dIscern the Lord’s body. . . . You come to the Lord’s table and yet you do not believe in full salvation for soul and body. You take the cup and eat the bread, and yet deny the body of the Lord for health and salvation. So you are sick because you do not discern the body of the Lord. . . . Dear beloved this means that we must honor the atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ in all its fullness . . . Let us take the Lamb’s body through faith in our Lord for salvation and healing of these bodies as we honor His blood for saving and sanctifying our soul and spirit. Amen.
​

Cecil Knight writes:

There is deep spiritual meaning in the Lord’s Supper. The participant does not merely look at the symbols; he receives spiritual food. Just as the bread and the fruit of the vine will nourish and invigorate the body of man, so Christ, through Communion, sustains and quickens the soul. When a Christian truly worships Christ in the Lord’s Supper, he is ministered to by the Holy Spirit, thereby receiving strength and a deep abiding peace
​

However, this can all be understood in terms of pneumatic presence and does not require a corporeal explanation.Which is why I said some Pentecostals may subscribe to a radical form of pneumatic presence that borders on Real Presence but is probably not quite your standard concept of Real Presence.
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Could you agree that some Pentecostals could be listed as believing in a form of the Real Presence under the stipulation that their Theology is very undeveloped (as in they have put less thought into it then Catholics and Lutherans) on this matter and their understanding is different. I would argue that if you believe in any way that Christ becomes present in the Eucharist (or whatever you call it) that you are believing in some form of the Real Presence.
 
hockeyfan said:
Could you agree that some Pentecostals could be listed as believing in a form of the Real Presence under the stipulation that their Theology is very undeveloped (as in they have put less thought into it then Catholics and Lutherans) on this matter and their understanding is different. I would argue that if you believe in any way that Christ becomes present in the Eucharist (or whatever you call it) that you are believing in some form of the Real Presence.
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Yes. A pastor in the Church of God (Cleveland, TN), a Pentecostal denomination, wrote the following definition of Real Presence where he draws on Gregory Palamas’ theology of “divine energies” as theological precedent:

. . .This Pentecostal interpretation suggests the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist in terms of a dyadic relationship between the Son and the Spirit. That is, in the economy of salvation, the work of the Son and the Spirit are interdependent. The believer encounters one through the activity of the other. According to Hebrews, Christ our High Priest, offered Himself as a spotless sacrifice to God “through the eternal Spirit” (Hebrews 9: 14). The bread and cup of the Eucharist are gifts of Christ through the Spirit. The “real presence” in the Eucharist is more than Pneumatic, it is Christo-Pneumatic. The Eucharist is possible only by virtue of Pentecost. The Spirit makes Christ really present in the bread and cup. In view of the emphasis in Pentecostal theology upon the Son and the Spirit, it seems inappropriate for Pentecostals to limit sacramental discussions to Zwinglian or Anabaptistic theological positions. With the Anabaptists, Pentecostals gladly affirm the presence of Christ and the witness of the Spirit in the worshiping community. With emphasis on the miraculous, it seems logical that Pentecostals would be willing to affirm the presence of Christ and the Spirit in the bread and cup of the holy meal. These two views are not mutually exclusive.
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(Daniel Tomberlin, Pentecostal Sacraments: Encountering God at the Altar, Kindle Edition.)
 
I was raised in the Church of Christ (non-traditional in that we believed that all Christians are saved regardless of denomination) and have discussed this with my sister who is Baptist, and we both agree in the “Real Presence” [of God/Jesus] during Communion with Him. At other times, we can feel His presence through the Holy Spirit when He speaks to us in our hearts and souls in answer to a prayer or dilemma.
 
Lutherans sit back almost amused by the effort of others to explain this most holy Mystery of Christ. Define it however you must but believe that Christ comes to us in this blessed Meal for the forgiveness of our sin and everlasting life.
 
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