What did the suffering part of Christ's Passion accomplish?

[Eric_Hyom]

I still don’t understand the theological/philosophical reasoning behind why God would allow His only Son to suffer more than He had to though

Jesus told us to love and pray for our enemies, that was easy for Jesus to say before the cross. On the cross Jesus prayed, forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

Now we know how much Jesus was prepared to forgive, we too should also be prepared to do the same.

 

[KevinK]

That explains exactly nothing.

 

[FortressGiant]

po18guy:

Ever hear “Officer it up”?

"“Offer it up”

Darned auto-correct!

Yep, haha

 

[FortressGiant]

Bear with me a bit. He atoned for all sins that had ever occurred and would ever occur. That atonement opened the gates of heaven. That, in no way, guarantees us heaven. We have to persevere to the end in faith, performing works of charity, for we will be known by our charity and judged according to our works.

Now, as to suffering, our suffering may be added to that of Christ, since we are, in the mystical sense, actual parts of His Body - that is why the Eucharist nourishes us - it nourishes His Body so that His mission continues unto the end of the age. For this same reason, the Eucharist does not spiritually nourish animals, but only we who are made in the image and likeness of God and have been incorporated into Christ’s Body.

Even though he opened the gates of heaven, His mission continues, and we are grafted into His Body. This is the gap, the chasm which must be understood. We are continuing His mission of suffering and redemption in each generation. Thus, just as He suffered for the sake of His Church, so can we also suffer for the sake of His Church.

A popular but erroneous view is that He is in heaven and we are in His waiting room here. Partially true, but we must act to build the Church. In that building up, in that mission, we will suffer.

Just as Christ offered His suffering to the Father for our sake we, being incorporated (corpus = body) into both His Body and His mission, can offer our suffering to the Father for the sake of others - the Church. God knows who will be saved and who will not. For that reason, we must assume that all have the potential to be saved.

Therefore, offering our suffering for the conversion of sinners is part of that “eventual” Church - the Church which does not yet exist, but is being built by our faith and perseverance in our mission. Salvation is on-going in each age, and while the gates of heaven are open, no one carries us through them. God’s grace gets us there, but we must cooperate with that grace in the building up of God’s Church.

This is great, I had to really stop and ponder what you were saying because there is so much to consider here. Just to clear up one more thing then, was our suffering joined to Christ’s suffering (not in this Earthly time but in God’s all-encompassing “time”) in any way that led to the atonement of our sins? Did we play a role in our salvation through the sufferings offered by us, throughout history and into the future, and having them combined with Christ’s suffering outside of time while He made up the rest, or was it His suffering and/or death on the Cross alone that led to our atonement?

If it is the latter, which from everything I know I suspect it was, then is it true that our offered sufferings for various purposes (such as penance and those in Purgatory) are only effective for us and for others because Jesus offered them all to God by combining them with His suffering and offering and this is why they are effective at all? I don’t see why our suffering would be effective on its own merits. I hope this makes sense, it’s not easy to put into words…

FG

 

[FortressGiant]

Our Blessed Lord could have saved us in any which way. He chose to willingly suffer so that we could suffer with Him. Suffering for someone and with someone is the greatest act of love; it creates a most radical and intimate solidarity. Our Lord chose to suffer to infinitely magnify love!

Hi AugustTherese,

His love is incredible and we’ll never fully understand it or know its depths. However, I do wonder if He could have really saved us in any way He wanted to. I’m not doubting God’s power here, what I’m saying is that there seem to be certain things God “cannot” do by their nature. For example, creating a rock He couldn’t lift or casting something out of His dominion while keeping it in existence. Similarly, I think that Jesus had to suffer and/or die (I’m still trying to figure out which or if both were required) to accomplish our atonement in a way that lined up with the way He is, His justice, His mercy, and His design for humanity, this universe, etc. I think that saving us without sacrifice would have been one of those things that God “cannot” do, not because His power is limited, but because these things are inherently contradictory and therefore invalid and meaningless.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

FG

 

[po18guy]

We cannot separate ourselves from Christ, or what He did or is doing. We are living, breathing members of His Body - whose work continues in each generation. This is why we offer ourselves as parts of Christ - a living sacrifice - at the mass. He dwells in us and we are members of Him. Separable only by our sins. Thus the Sacrament of Reconciliation to reunite us with His Body when we stray.

The tendency is to isolate Him in heaven - but we ARE Him. He cannot accomplish on-going conversion and salvation without a body. We are that Body. Thus, what we do is what Christ would do had He not ascended.

His atonement was complete, but again He does not carry us through the gates of heaven! We must struggle there ourselves - with God’s grace.

 

[ShowersofRoses]

OP, read the answer in this link. I think it gives the answer you’re looking for on why Jesus had to suffer and not just die peacefully.

Here’s a quote from the end of the article:

Jesus’ suffering on the cross showed the devastating nature of sin, the wrath of God, the cruelty of humanity, and the hatred of Satan. At Calvary, mankind was allowed to do his worst to the Son of Man as He became the Redeemer of mankind. Satan may have thought he had won a great victory, but it was through the cross that the Son of God triumphed over Satan, sin, and death. “Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out” (John 12:31; cf. Colossians 2:15).

I bolded the important part. Jesus laid down His life as the Sacrificial Lamb, which involves sacrifice and the pouring out of blood. A peaceful death would not involve the pouring out of blood. He had to suffer in His death and pour out His blood for us…that is why He was crucified.

Jesus put Himself into the hands of Satan, who was allowed to do his worst to Jesus. It’s like when Aslan submits to the White Witch. She tortures Him and believes she has won the victory. Later she realizes her grave mistake.

Jesus allowed Satan to think he had won. He had killed the Son of God! But later, Satan also learned that nothing he did to Jesus really mattered in the long run.

Jesus took all that suffering and used it to redeem the world. He transformed the evil and malicious violence into the perfect, most loving act of Redemption for us.

 

[FortressGiant]

OP, read the answer in this link. I think it gives the answer you’re looking for on why Jesus had to suffer and not just die peacefully.

Here’s a quote from the end of the article:

Jesus’ suffering on the cross showed the devastating nature of sin, the wrath of God, the cruelty of humanity, and the hatred of Satan. At Calvary, mankind was allowed to do his worst to the Son of Man as He became the Redeemer of mankind. Satan may have thought he had won a great victory, but it was through the cross that the Son of God triumphed over Satan, sin, and death. “Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out” (John 12:31; cf. Colossians 2:15).

Thank you very much! I will be sure to read it God bless you!

FG