what do baptists think of catholicism and catholics?

[Masters_Servant]

thank you all for your replies. i have had computer issues the past few days and wasn’t able to get back to CAF to see if there had been any posts.

for those that think catholicism is not really christian or is pagan, or they taught that at their church? who is responsible for their misunderstanding of what it means to be catholic?

i can tell that my friend thinks i am not a true christian or thinks i am somehow way off on my approach to christianity by being catholic.

again, thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

For what it is worth; the differences in doctrines do amount to a difference as to how God saves and God only saves in one way; therefore there is one of 3 possible outcomes. A is correct while B is wrong, B is correct, while A is wrong or both A & B are wrong. To understand how & why God saves is to understand God and His purpose and sovereignty in salvation.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Any baptist that is anti-catholic is most likely bigoted, so who cares what they think. Any baptist that embraces their brothers and sisters in all Christian groups should be encouraged in their love of the Body of Christ.

When Christ said to love one another; He was speaking about Christians to Christians.
John 13:35 “By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

The question becomes, “who is a Christian”? We are not left to our own to be able to discern this and in fact we are to discern this; it is the lack of discernment that has allowed error into the church and is nothing new; Paul struggled with this and Jesus and the other writers gave continual warnings about false teacher and false teachings. Church discipline is almost non existent; yet it is taught in Scripture for a reason. Part of the problem I believe is that people confuse condemning someone with discernment; I will say that in my experience it is easier to tell who is NOT a Christian than it is to say who is one.

The primary difference between discerning and condemning is the understanding of God’s word, which is another reason why discernment is lacking; most “Christians” do not put forth much time nor energy in the study of God’s word; therefore it is easier to say “you are being judgmental and playing God”. Playing God is telling someone that you have no possibility of being saved as opposed to based on the current lack of understanding and the rejection of the gospel and the person of Christ, which comes in many forms and subtle forms, you will die in your sin unless you repent and cry out to God for mercy.

 

[gatty2010]

Growing up in Alabama (Southern Baptist version of Mecca), there is a range. The larger, more urban churches only touch on Catholicism every now and then and only to take issue with a teaching (sometimes a distorted one). The more rural, smaller ones may take a harsher stance, often distorting the theology and/or history to push the views of the pastor. In both cases, the Sunday School experiance may be totally different. As these are often smaller and taught by “uneducated” people (in the theoloical sense), any number of things can be taught.

I have noticed that over the last 30 years, the outright, visible hatred of Catholics in Alabama has decreased. Personally, I hold that it is more to do with better education in schools and the effective end of the KKK as a social force. Once the Klan’s power was ended, those churches that were influenced by them softened greatly.

Great info for me. It is what I were looking for ! Thanks a lot !

---

Koozies | Great Koozies

 

[IHeartBenedict]

I was raised Baptist. I converted to Catholicism in 2002. I was a child in the 1950’s. I have had reason to sort of study this issue recently and throughout my life. Baptists, especially Independant Fundamental Baptists have no use for the Catholic Church. Do a google search, look at their web site. They go so far as to deny that they are protestants and they claim that they go way back before the catholic church. They can be a pretty stubborn, hardheaded, opinionated bunch. They even claim that St. Patrick was a baptist?

St Patrick? LOL.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Ok I told my paster about this thread and asked for his thoughts on the CC and on Catholics He first pointed out that that is two different questions implying that he had different thoughts about the laity and the leadership. He disagrees with the position of the pope, the worship of Mary but that he believes many Catholics are born again. Yes I did attempt to explain that Catholics dont worship Mary but he has a meeting to go to.

Most Catholics do not understand their church’s own teaching between dulia, hyperdulia and latria; as you also misunderstand the Catholic teaching on the subject.

Anyone who wants to know more about the actual teaching, which teaches dulia and hyperdulia fall in the category of WORSHIP and extends not only to Mary, Saints, but also the Statues and relics. Click HERE for more information, which is important to read as I summarized and there are details/distinctions that cannot be summarized and need careful examination to avoid a blanket “catch all” understanding or misunderstanding. It is safe to say that veneration is a form or type of WORSHIP, which is why Catholics get crazy looks from people when they try to say that veneration is not the same as WORSHIP; it is, but it is the form that it takes in relation to God, in relation to Mary and in relation to the others, which is where the Catholic needs to clarify and make the specific distinctions. Just my 2 cents, read and drawl you own conclusion; that is what I have done.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Your pastor has made himself his own pope and his own authority that why he does not like the pope! Authority has always been a big problem for those outside the catholic church. The bible is open to anyones interpretation.

Matthew

I would argue that for the Christian, their is no issue of authority; for He is referred to as Lord of Lords and King of Kings and every knee shall bow before Him. There is no directive in Scripture to bow or hold to any other. Yes we are to have reverence for the pastor-teacher who is worthy of honor, but that always refers to the local pastor-teacher. If you recall when the Greeks met either Peter or Paul, can’t recall, but they tried to bow to him, tried to treat him like he was God and he rebuked them. Also, any prophet or Apostle that tried to bow before an angel was rebuked and when Peter wanted to build 3 tabernacles after the transfiguration he was rebuked by Jesus. Has Jesus now changed?

 

[Masters_Servant]

Where did the elders get their authority?
They have no real authority… They worship christ on their terms not on christ terms.

Matthew

What are Christ’s terms; since you seem to be an authority on the issue?

 

[Masters_Servant]

That’s a great point. Also, where do people get the authority to elect elders? The early leaders, who were chosen by the Apostles and their successors chose the elders, correct? Also, based on that, people choose their pastors which does NOT match what we seen in the NT and in the Early Church.

Only if one misses the point of the appointments made by the Apostles; which were they were appointing those that had a love for God, were knowledgeable in the teachings of God and were able to teach and were above reproach et al 1 Tim and Titus. The Scripture does not leave us without example, which is the reason for the Pastoral Epistles. Pretty smart of God wouldn’t you say?

 

[ralphinal]

I would argue that for the Christian, their is no issue of authority; for He is referred to as Lord of Lords and King of Kings and every knee shall bow before Him. There is no directive in Scripture to bow or hold to any other. Yes we are to have reverence for the pastor-teacher who is worthy of honor, but that always refers to the local pastor-teacher. If you recall when the Greeks met either Peter or Paul, can’t recall, but they tried to bow to him, tried to treat him like he was God and he rebuked them. Also, any prophet or Apostle that tried to bow before an angel was rebuked and when Peter wanted to build 3 tabernacles after the transfiguration he was rebuked by Jesus. Has Jesus now changed?

Intent has to be considered. In the cases you listed, worship was either outright discussed or implied. Futher, at the Transfiguration, Peter wanted to put Jesus, Moses, and Elijah in tabernacles to hold to them, and in doing so, not allow Jesus to do what he had to do.

If you read how Paul spoke to those above him, I doubt he was bold and brazen. He bowed and spoke when he was supposed to. Stephen, when faced with martyrdom, was polite and seemed to defer to those of higher station.

The idea that Christians would not bow as a sign of servatude is wrong. The idea that we would not bow as a sign of worship is correct

 

[Nicea325]

**i am curious and would like to ask any baptists out there who might stumble into CAF,
how they feel about catholicism and catholics and what they are taughter growing up in the baptist church about catholicism.

since i have converted to catholicism i have noticed a certain coldness in a dear friend i have had for many years and who is very protestant and has been a baptist since marrying her husband 16 years ago.

somehow i get the feeling she feels that i don’t “know” Jesus in the right way. **

Well even as a cradle Catholic my whole life,I get those sentiments from die hard Protestants. They believe only they know God and have God in their lives and we Catholics do not. No offense to you or your friend,but most Baptists I have encountered are very anti-Catholic and it seems to run deep in their tradition.I didn’t say all Baptists,but most I knew or know now are very anti-Catholic.

I do not let that bother me,because Catholics had Jesus in their lives long befoe ANY Baptist even existed in the sense of their church existence.

 

[Godblessed]

I may be off base but this thread touches on an issue I recently discussed with a friend. The Baptist church was found by the name of John but it certainly wasn’t John the Baptist. I believe it was John Smyth. I may be mistaken. I now John the Baptist had a few disciples but a church, I never heard of it. Christ laid the foundation for his church here on earth. His church is apostolic, with he being the cornerstone. “Unless the Lord build the house they that build it laboureth in vain.” Why do people try to explain away 2000 years of spirit guided tradition with bigotry, hate and rhetoric. What is truth?

 

[Masters_Servant]

What is the main belief of the Baptists when it comes to salvation? And how does this differ from that of a Catholic Church? I know it has something to do with being justified of your sins forever or something like that, but can someone explain this to me.

The primary difference in a nutshell is one is based on a works righteousness and the other says God alone. One says man MUST cooperate ( meritorious works) in his own salvation with God, which denies the total sovereignty of God in salvation, in effect renders the work of salvation on the cross as insufficient, and the misunderstands purpose of salvation. Whereas the other recognizes the total sovereignty of God to show mercy upon who He chooses and that there is nothing inside a man that can merit anything before a holy and just God.

Free-will becomes an explanatory difference between the two views, but underlying this is something even bigger which deals with pride and with a misunderstanding of “His ways are higher than our ways”.

 

[Monica4316]

i am curious and would like to ask any baptists out there who might stumble into CAF,
how they feel about catholicism and catholics and what they are taughter growing up in the baptist church about catholicism.

since i have converted to catholicism i have noticed a certain coldness in a dear friend i have had for many years and who is very protestant and has been a baptist since marrying her husband 16 years ago.

somehow i get the feeling she feels that i don’t “know” Jesus in the right way.

sadly, I’ve had this happen to me too

 

[Nicea325]

**I may be off base but this thread touches on an issue I recently discussed with a friend. The Baptist church was found by the name of John but it certainly wasn’t John the Baptist. I believe it was John Smyth. I may be mistaken. I now John the Baptist had a few disciples but a church, I never heard of it. Christ laid the foundation for his church here on earth. His church is apostolic, with he being the cornerstone. “Unless the Lord build the house they that build it laboureth in vain.” Why do people try to explain away 2000 years of spirit guided tradition with bigotry, hate and rhetoric. What is truth? **

More or less John Smyth,but some link them to the Separatists and Anabaptists. Because it is much easier to stick to bigotry,hatred and rhetoric than learning the TRUTH.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Intent has to be considered. In the cases you listed, worship was either outright discussed or implied. Futher, at the Transfiguration, Peter wanted to put Jesus, Moses, and Elijah in tabernacles to hold to them, and in doing so, not allow Jesus to do what he had to do.

If you read how Paul spoke to those above him, I doubt he was bold and brazen. He bowed and spoke when he was supposed to. Stephen, when faced with martyrdom, was polite and seemed to defer to those of higher station.

The idea that Christians would not bow as a sign of servatude is wrong. The idea that we would not bow as a sign of worship is correct

Who was above Paul that you are referring to??? Stephen??? what is that is that an example to make a point. Stephen died a martyr in the best sense of the word “Christian”.

What was Peter preventing Jesus from doing exactly??? Making it up as you go?

Also, you are a practicing Catholic are you not? Why is it you do not understand the Church teaching on dulia? Veneration is a from of worship and why were you not able to provide Biblical examples, clear ones to contradict what I stated?

Never mind - I read all this again and you must be having an “off day”; we all have them.

 

[Masters_Servant]

I may be off base but this thread touches on an issue I recently discussed with a friend. The Baptist church was found by the name of John but it certainly wasn’t John the Baptist. I believe it was John Smyth. I may be mistaken. I now John the Baptist had a few disciples but a church, I never heard of it. Christ laid the foundation for his church here on earth. His church is apostolic, with he being the cornerstone. “Unless the Lord build the house they that build it laboureth in vain.” Why do people try to explain away 2000 years of spirit guided tradition with bigotry, hate and rhetoric. What is truth?

So you were there then? Personally, the church I belong to is not of this earth and was started on the day of Pentecost and I was predestined to be part of it before the foundation of the world.

Can anyone find a church with a longer history that this one I speak of? I think not.

 

[ralphinal]

Who was above Paul that you are referring to??? Stephen??? what is that is that an example to make a point. Stephen died a martyr in the best sense of the word “Christian”.

What was Peter preventing Jesus from doing exactly??? Making it up as you go?

Also, you are a practicing Catholic are you not? Why is it you do not understand the Church teaching on dulia? Veneration is a from of worship and why were you not able to provide Biblical examples, clear ones to contradict what I stated?

Never mind - I read all this again and you must be having an “off day”; we all have them.

Please check the insulting tone. It is Holy Week.

Paul appeared before several government officials who were above him according to Acts. Do you think he acted like a bully to them, or was he polite and did he follow court protocol? If you know history, you know the answer. Had Paul NOT bowed, Paul would have been killed on the spot. Stephen, as he addressed his killers, refered to them as “Fathers;” among other honorifics. Luckily, there is no rule against calling humans “Father.”

Yes, I am practicing. I quite well understand dulia, hyperdulia, and latria.

Have you ever called a child adorable? If so, you are saying that the child is worthy of adoration. Do you worship that child? Have you ever called someone or something beautiful? If so, you are saying that it is blessed above all others like it. Are you worshiping it?

 

[greggy53]

What is the main belief of the Baptists when it comes to salvation? And how does this differ from that of a Catholic Church? I know it has something to do with being justified of your sins forever or something like that, but can someone explain this to me.

From what I have read Baptists are offshoots of Calvinism / Presbyterianism. They have a number of different denominations within the “Baptist” scope. They believe that the only valid baptism is by total immersion. They teach that once you are “saved” you are always “saved”. The Catholic Church believes that salvation is a process not a one time event. That you can lose your salvation. It all boils down to free will. The Catholic Church has always taught that we humans are completely free to choose or reject God’s grace. The Calvinists believe that we are all predestined for salvation or damnation and there is nothing we can do about it. They teach that you can only rely on the Bible differing with the Church on the nature of the fall of man, and the commission and authority of God’s Church.
Why they hate the Catholics so much is beyond me. But my daughter recently moved to Tennessee and got a stomach full from people when they found out she was Catholic. It wasn’t like they tried to convert her, they shunned her. Neighbors refused to speak to her after they found out she was Catholic. She was amazed and had a hard time believing that people who were supposed to be Christians could be so cruel.

 

[Masters_Servant]

**i am curious and would like to ask any baptists out there who might stumble into CAF,
how they feel about catholicism and catholics and what they are taughter growing up in the baptist church about catholicism.

since i have converted to catholicism i have noticed a certain coldness in a dear friend i have had for many years and who is very protestant and has been a baptist since marrying her husband 16 years ago.

somehow i get the feeling she feels that i don’t “know” Jesus in the right way. **

Well even as a cradle Catholic my whole life,I get those sentiments from die hard Protestants. They believe only they know God and have God in their lives and we Catholics do not. No offense to you or your friend,but most Baptists I have encountered are very anti-Catholic and it seems to run deep in their tradition.I didn’t say all Baptists,but most I knew or know now are very anti-Catholic.

I do not let that bother me,because Catholics had Jesus in their lives long befoe ANY Baptist even existed in the sense of their church existence.

How is that possible when God determined before the foundation of the earth, way before the Catholic church, who the elect were? Are you saying that Catholics are the elect? Are you saying God is wrong? Are you saying the Bible is with error? Does the gospel transcend denominations?

 

[Masters_Servant]

Please check the insulting tone. It is Holy Week.

Paul appeared before several government officials who were above him according to Acts. Do you think he acted like a bully to them, or was he polite and did he follow court protocol? If you know history, you know the answer. Had Paul NOT bowed, Paul would have been killed on the spot. Stephen, as he addressed his killers, refered to them as “Fathers;” among other honorifics. Luckily, there is no rule against calling humans “Father.”

Yes, I am practicing. I quite well understand dulia, hyperdulia, and latria.

Have you ever called a child adorable? If so, you are saying that the child is worthy of adoration. Do you worship that child? Have you ever called someone or something beautiful? If so, you are saying that it is blessed above all others like it. Are you worshiping it?

Now you have taken Paul to some place out of the context of our original dialogue. Where does it say Paul bowed? Where? He very well may have if it were appropriate; but how does that have to do with bowing before a Pope to a statue? I can’t see the connection.

Acts 7 is where you can get the facts correct concerning Stephen if you are interested.
The fathers was with a little “f” and related in the sense of ancestry as opposed to spiritual leaders, which is why the “f” is little for Jesus clearly forbids the calling of a spiritual authority as “Father” and the reason, there is only one spiritual leader who is in heaven and that being God the Father of all Christians. The spiritual leaders on earth are called “servants”.

Insulting tone? How thin can your skin be? Do not worry; I will never insult you again, as you claim and I deny, as I won’t be talking to you again. My thinking is that you are not interested in dialogue. I wish you the best and pray you read and begin to understand what God meant by what He said; not only for you but for all of us. amen