what do baptists think of catholicism and catholics?

[vickimonica]

If you believe the Bible, which is God’s word, makes Him destroy your faith, then that faith was/is built on sand. Which part of the Bible would you like to trow out?

Romans 9:14-24
14 What then are we to say? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For ***He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” *** {There is your evil god} 16 So it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. **{ There is your evil god }**17 For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whomever he chooses, **{ there is that evil god } **and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses. 19 You will say to me then, "Why then does he still find fault? For who can resist his will? {see how evil your god is? } " 20 But who indeed are you, a human being, to argue with God? Will what is molded say to the one who molds it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the Potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use? 22 What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience ***the objects of wrath that are made for destruction; *** **{ there is that evil god again **}23 and what if He has done so in order to make known the riches of his glory for the objects of mercy, **{ this is one of God’s primary purposes for ALL creation }*****which he has prepared beforehand for glory - 24 including us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? *** -------This is when He decided all of it.

Decision time: should we throw out Romans 9? Lets move on…

Mt 3:12
“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” —notice the ownership and notice the sovereignty of this evil god. Should we through this out as well?

I could do this with every book in the NT and almost every book in the OT; the point is the faith that does not understand God and does not accept the God of the Bible is a dead faith regardless of the person.

In your world, the god you have created would mean everyone is in heaven; otherwise it is not fair unless you believe their is something you can do to EARN your salvation that would make God look down at you and say “you are so much better than this person over here and you have done so many wonderful things compared to this person; please come into my presence”. That god is not in the Bible. Salvation is designed to display His attribute of Mercy and give him the glory He deserves and the lost for which His wrath remains will also give Him glory because it displays His righteous judgment; for ALL have fallen short of the glory of God and not one seeks after God, not one. Salvation is of God and by God and for God. God, God, God - it is true whether you believe it or you don’t or anyone for that matter.

What will you do faced with this reality? I know what i would do; i would be like that tax collector in Luke and deal with my sin and beg God for mercy. That’s me and to each his own for the decisions we make concerning God will last forever.

I always wonder why people that are so opposed to the Catholic Church are on a Catholic Website?.. I have absolutely no interest in the baptist religion, so I would never go onto a baptised website. Makes me believe that they are interested in becoming Catholic. Praise Be!!!

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

If. That’s me and to each his own for the decisions we make concerning God will last forever.

What decisions? according to TULIP we make no decisions concerning God. God either chooses us or he doesnt.

In your understanding of God he will punish for all eternity, people, who were never capable of being anything other that what they are. Imagine I hate cats, so I decide to breed cats so that I can torture them. why would I do that? because they are cats! If I did that you would no doubt think I was a sick individual yet You think God does the for all eternity.

Do I believe all people are saved? I believe all are given a measure of faith an opportunity and ability given by God to seek Him. When I read the entire Bible I see God giving man the opportunity to follow after Him and He pleads with them to CHOOSE life.

 

[Masters_Servant]

You beg the question. You should have said, ‘…before the Catholic Church was manifested on earth.’ All things are possible for God.

Can God lie? Then not all things are possible with God.

To your first question, since the Lord came to form one Church, yes.

No to the second question, though protestants seem to think He is.

How is that church defined in Scripture and does it resemble any denomination earth? No.

To your first question, protestants seem to think it is, but I’ll leave it up to you. In John, Jesus says the one who will betray Him is the one to whom He hands the morsel of food. In Matthew He says it’s the one who dips his hand in the dish with Him. It’s a clear contradiction. Which one is wrong?

Neither are wrong for both happened from two persons perspective; just as if two people witnessed a car accident from different corners. This tells me you believe the Bible contains error, which tells me a lot.

To your second question, no. Jesus, as noted, came to form one Church. He said there shall be one flock and one Shepherd. He said He will send the Spirit to guide the Church to all truth. Jn 16:13. He said He will be with His Church until the end of the world. Mt. 28:20. The only Christian Church to exist from Pentecost to today is the Catholic Church. The protestant sects were all spawned from a 16th Century heresy.

You misquote scripture and out of context. But since you do not believe it is infallible, at least this was the implication it is not surprising. He sent the Holy Spirit to guide the individual, not the institution, It is the collection of the elect that make up the church and you do not know who the elect are although you said you do, which makes you more knowledgeable than all the angels in heaven if what you said was true, which of course it is not…

 

[Masters_Servant]

Thank you. Most Protesants, probably including Masters Servant, have been told MANY TIMES we do not worship Mary. They refuse to accept it because, if they do, they will have to drop one of their favorite sticks they use to beat the Church and they don’t want to let it go.

You are ignorant of your own church’s teaching; I am not. Go to the Catholic encyclopedia and type in Christian worship and not only do you worship Mary, but statues and relics are also okay to worship. I have studied your church and have read the CCC at least 3 times in the past 6 months and a plethora of other information.

Just so you know, there are many Catholics who rightly say they do worship Mary of the Church.

 

[Masters_Servant]

That all has a nice ring to it but it completely ignores Matthew 25 31-46. Why did Jesus bother to make that teaching if it means nothing, as you infer? There’s not a word about faith in the passage.

Way to deep for your understanding. First it is not a teaching; it is a statement of fact of how he will separate the elect from the non-elect. The elect have already come by faith and the non-elect are the Christ deniers, so there is no need to mention “faith”, the decisions were already made and this is about His Second Coming and the judgment. The parables prior are warnings of not being prepared; they are contrasts to those who accepted the gospel and those who did not; the ones who were righteous and those who are not.

i do not think we have much more to talk about here; you do not understand you own Church’s teaching and nor do you understand the Word of God, so it make any discussion on the things of God impossible. So I wish you all the best.

 

[Masters_Servant]

This is a complete misunderstanding of CC Teaching. The Catechism teaches that we are saved by God’s Grace ALONE.

You better go back and look very carefully at the CCC; look for the word “but” and the water baptism. It does not say by grace alone. I have read it 3 times now and I know what it says, but it is very subtle in the way the meritorious works are added in some places and rather direct in others.

Now, can you tell me what Moses DID, that prevented him from entering the Promised Land?

He was disobedient to God and in His sovereignty; God chastised him for it and decided to allow Joshua to led them into the land.

[BIBLEDRB]james 2:14-26[/BIBLEDRB]

Your point here taken in the context you have in mind would contradict Paul in Romans; If you believe the Bible is without contradiction, then you must ask yourself what does God mean here in James. When you are able to answer that, then you will conclude that faith alone is what saves the sinner from the wrath to come; otherwise your are left to believe the Bible contradicts itself.

 

[Masters_Servant]

I too attended Catholic school for 12 years, and was taught that we are saved by Grace. You’ve got the wrong idea about what the sacraments are. Sacraments are vehicles of God’s grace, and blessing.

Except you won’t find that teaching by the Lord or the writers or the prophets; so who should we believe, God or the Church? I have choosen God.

 

[Masters_Servant]

**I am a former Catholic and was taught for 12 years in Catholic elementary and high school.

I will make this short, but we (independent fundamental baptists) do generally use the KJV because we believe it is the closest to the original Greek and Hebrew, not that the english version interpreters were inspired.

I personally love Catholics, maybe more so because my husband and I once were Catholic, and can relate to them better. I have never heard anyone at my church speak derogatorily about Catholics but we do agree that salvation comes from believing Jesus is the son of God, crucified for our sins, and risen. We do not believe salvation comes from works (sacraments, joining any particular church) but by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus**

No offense,but you never learned what the RCC taught on salvation. The RCC has NEVER taught salvation comes solely through works or the sacraments. That is an error and is so common among Baptists to relay that inaccurate belief about the RCC.

Salvation is not from faith-alone either,which is a bogus doctrine fabricated 1500 years later… Salvation as it has always been taught by the RCC comes through Grace-alone from God. As the St.James said: faith without works is dead.

Even my NKJV Study Bible states Martin Luther went to far and even goes out on the limb to state faith and works are both necessary,not against each other. I have noticed many Protestant scholars are starting to realize that truth and that the RCC never taught such a fallacy of works alone saves.

Faith alone is all over Scripture well over 6000 year ago. Read Hebrews chapter 11 and note the phrase “by faith”; should put an end to any doubts about how God saves in the OT and the NT, which has always been by grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone. The OT’s looked to the cross for justification and we look back at the cross.

 

[Masters_Servant]

I always wonder why people that are so opposed to the Catholic Church are on a Catholic Website?.. I have absolutely no interest in the baptist religion, so I would never go onto a baptised website. Makes me believe that they are interested in becoming Catholic. Praise Be!!!

I’m not much into religion myself; i prefer the personal relationship with God that I have. I attend a Baptist church because the church I go to is Christ centered and is faithful to the Word of God; rare to find in this day.

I have relatives I the Catholic church; so i decided to make it a point to read the CCC and other resources to better understand the Catholic mind and what a better place than CAF to see it in action. I have discovered many things since being here in conjunction with reading a lot of resource material. I have reached a point where I know more about the Catholic faith then some of my relatives which puts me in a better place to witness to them. I wasn’t convinced before I started on this path if they needed to be witnessed to; now I am certain. But all I can do is plant the seed, the work of salvation is solely the sovereignty of God. Something else i made note of in Scripture a little blurb that Jesus told His disciples concerning the Parable of the Sowers/Soils; He made a comment that if they understood that Parable, then they would be able to discern the rest and He is right. And upon careful examination of the Parable, one will see that it is not the seed, nor the sower that makes the difference; it the the preparation of the soil against that which is natural soil and this preparation is only done by the sovereignty of God and accords with the rest of Scripture. More than you wanted to know.

 

[Masters_Servant]

What decisions? according to TULIP we make no decisions concerning God. God either chooses us or he doesnt.

In your understanding of God he will punish for all eternity, people, who were never capable of being anything other that what they are. Imagine I hate cats, so I decide to breed cats so that I can torture them. why would I do that? because they are cats! If I did that you would no doubt think I was a sick individual yet You think God does the for all eternity.

Do I believe all people are saved? I believe all are given a measure of faith an opportunity and ability given by God to seek Him. When I read the entire Bible I see God giving man the opportunity to follow after Him and He pleads with them to CHOOSE life.

Your analogy show you do not understand the nature of God and the purpose of salvation, but rather a human understanding of what your god should look like from your fallen perspective of what is fair.

Imagine a great divide and on one side are all the people that deserve to be separated from God. How many would be on that side? All have fallen short of God’s standard of perfection. So who deserves to be on the side with God and by whose standard? No one, unless you view it from a human standard. So would God be unjust if He left all people on the other side? Not at all; He has the right to set the standard and He exercised that right and we are the creature, not the creator. So in His mercy, He sends His son to pay for the sins of those He chose to give to the son (John 17) is that unfair/ Nope. So if the Son chooses to pick a handful, because He satisfied Gods standard, and in His mercy some get to the other side via the only way, which is Christ, is God just in doing so? Yes So where is the injustice? There is none. Once you stop applying your standard of what is fair and what is not, then you will see just how merciful and kind God really is.

 

[Masters_Servant]

**

To Whom It May Concern

Well folks; it been real - I am so off topic it not funny; so if you have a question or comment that you want addressed, then send me an email. I do not want to be so far off topic as that is a violation of the rules and I am a guest; so I apologize to anyone that may be aggravated by myself getting so off the topic at hand.

God bless each of you and we will see you around if the Lord wills it so.

MS**

 

[benidict]

I always wonder why people that are so opposed to the Catholic Church are on a Catholic Website?.. I have absolutely no interest in the baptist religion, so I would never go onto a baptised website. Makes me believe that they are interested in becoming Catholic. Praise Be!!!

hi vikimonica. at least we let them on. and im glad one of them actually had the courage to come on board. we as Catholics are not allowed on baptist board. simply because we are Catholic. im glad CAF is more tolerant, and that we actually can discuss with people of other faiths, other than just gossip amoung ourseves like they do on some other forums. not letting others come on from other faiths. peace

 

[benidict]

Your analogy show you do not understand the nature of God and the purpose of salvation, but rather a human understanding of what your god should look like from your fallen perspective of what is fair.

Imagine a great divide and on one side are all the people that deserve to be separated from God. How many would be on that side? All have fallen short of God’s standard of perfection. So who deserves to be on the side with God and by whose standard? No one, unless you view it from a human standard. So would God be unjust if He left all people on the other side? Not at all; He has the right to set the standard and He exercised that right and we are the creature, not the creator. So in His mercy, He sends His son to pay for the sins of those He chose to give to the son (John 17) is that unfair/ Nope. So if the Son chooses to pick a handful, because He satisfied Gods standard, and in His mercy some get to the other side via the only way, which is Christ, is God just in doing so? Yes So where is the injustice? There is none. Once you stop applying your standard of what is fair and what is not, then you will see just how merciful and kind God really is.

im starting to see a pattern here. anytime someone disagrees with you or has a different point of view. supposedly they have no understanding on the subject at hand. will discuss with you more tomorrow. im going to bed, and have been reading your post. will give you my thoughts when im clear headed. looking forward to it. perhaps it is you who has some misunderstandings on some subjects. also if you read the Catholic Catechism 3 times in 6 months, im amazed. its pretty big. you may have scanned it three times, but read it in depth, with understanding? doubtful.escpecially with out a priest to guide you. peace.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Your analogy show you do not understand the nature of God and the purpose of salvation, but rather a human understanding of what your god should look like from your fallen perspective of what is fair.

Imagine a great divide and on one side are all the people that deserve to be separated from God. How many would be on that side? All have fallen short of God’s standard of perfection. So who deserves to be on the side with God and by whose standard? No one, unless you view it from a human standard. So would God be unjust if He left all people on the other side? Not at all; He has the right to set the standard and He exercised that right and we are the creature, not the creator. So in His mercy, He sends His son to pay for the sins of those He chose to give to the son (John 17) is that unfair/ Nope. So if the Son chooses to pick a handful, because He satisfied Gods standard, and in His mercy some get to the other side via the only way, which is Christ, is God just in doing so? Yes So where is the injustice? There is none. Once you stop applying your standard of what is fair and what is not, then you will see just how merciful and kind God really is.

Deserves? for what? If we are born totally depraved and given no chance to be anything else. then how could we “deserve” eternal punishment? Wrath and anger imply that a wrong choice was made something done by the object of wrath that is in control of the object of wrath.

 

[greggy53]

.You are missing the mark and confusing the works prepared beforehand that the people of God would walk in them; also in the Bible, with how God justified, made righteous in His sight, saved them from His wrath, which is by what? FAITH Read Hebrews chapter 11 and count how many time the phrase “by faith” is used in relation to most of the people you mentioned above. You can only do what your nature allows and what kind of nature do you have? A sin nature. When does one shed the sin nature for a new nature? When God changes that nature, the sinner cannot change his nature; he can only do what is in his nature. Not until God gives the new nature can one be holy and righteous deeds, but not before.

We do have a sinful nature, but we also have the natural law written in our hearts. If you think about it faith is something that YOU have to accept and posses within you, and we know we are only saved by God’s grace. ST James says clearly that we are NOT saved by faith alone.

.What you describe above is a meritorious works based salvation not taught in Scripture. How much work is enough? How do you know your work was righteous or not righteous in His sight? At what point can the balance be on your favor given the amount of sin we all produce on a daily basis? You can’t know because you can’t merit salvation it is as the Bible declares a GIFT.

You are looking at it wrong. We are not saved by meritorious woks alone either, but our cooperation is necessary. We have to accept God’s grace and do his will. No amount of good works can earn salvation, but our cooperation is necessary….Free will. We have our part to play, it is not a one way street.

.I do understand the issue of free-will; that it is hard if not impossible to wrap our minds around it. When we think we have it figured out, then you can bet you have it wrong. The Bible does say that people go to hell for rejecting the Savior or the revelation He has given if someone has not heard of the gospel. Yet, the Bible also teaches that we would not choose God and in fact can’t choose God unless God removes the veil of blindness. So I walk by faith knowing that God has all that figured out and that I am incapable of understanding the paradox like I wish I could. Try to wrap your mind around the trinity or who wrote the Bible God or man; its both. i do not pretend to know how He has worked it; but I trust Him and know He is righteous and He is just for no one deserves to be with Him; so anyone He chooses to be with Him is an act of mercy.

And you have freely chosen to accept God’s grace and salvation and the evidence of that faith is the way you live your life and do his will (works). Those who reject God do so with the same free will. The Bible says that Jesus came to redeem the world. Not every one by a long shot has heard the salvation message. What about those who lived before Jesus time, and those who have lived since but did not hear the good news? Are they damned?

 

[Godblessed]

I’m a Christian who attends a Baptist church, and believe people from just about every denomination are, and should be called “Christians.” I love all my Roman Catholic friends, and in my youth would have spirited but good-natured debates about various articles of faith. I would cringe when one of these friends would call someone a “good Catholic,” when “good Christian” would have been much more appropriate. I will always be saddened by any denomination that purports to exclude others from the Kingdom of Heaven. Last I checked, only God gets to decide such things on Judgment Day. Meanwhile, I say it’s best to look for the similarities we all have and find ways to love one another around and through our minor differences. I understand that there is no Bible verse that dicates how a proper “crossing of oneself” should be done, or the dimensions of the pope’s hat, or the correct procedure of a Hail Mary, Rosary, etc., but that these traditions give people pleasure. As long as the pleasure of tradition does not interfere with important aspects of a common faith, we should not have a problem. Nobody should judge as “not a real Christian” or as “falling short of Heaven” a person who chooses not to embrace Roman Catholicism’s traditions. Believing that Jesus was who He said He was, that He died for our sins, that He wants us to love God more than anything else and our neighbors as ourselves, and that we should not be hypocrites seem to be the main themes He brought to earth in His time. In fact, He did a good bit of roughing up the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees* for being pompous, bound to rules and regulations they dreamed up for people, and completely missing God’s message. Seems we should not make that same mistake again.
God bless you all.
Dave

*biblemeat.com/articles/wackerly1.htm#pharisees

 

[greggy53]

Except you won’t find that teaching by the Lord or the writers or the prophets; so who should we believe, God or the Church? I have choosen God.

When I accept what God’s Church teaches I accept what God teaches. Jesus and his Church are one…The Bible tells me so. EVERYTHING the Catholic Churches teaches is biblical and is blessed by God. The Holy Spirit guides His Church and has given His Church the Holy scriptures and their correct interpretations. Why should I believe your individual interpretation over the Church that has consistently and correctly taught for 2000 years?

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

I always wonder why people that are so opposed to the Catholic Church are on a Catholic Website?.. I have absolutely no interest in the baptist religion, so I would never go onto a baptised website. Makes me believe that they are interested in becoming Catholic. Praise Be!!!

LOL! I don’t think so. If he’s like other fundamentalists I’ve run into, he’s here to condemn the Catholic Church and to try to draw Catholics away from the true faith into his heresy. These guys all see themselves as missionaries. It’s only a matter of time before he tells one of us to come out of the whore of Babylon.

 

[qui_est_ce]

**

To Whom It May Concern**

Well folks; it been real - I am so off topic it not funny; so if you have a question or comment that you want addressed, then send me an email. I do not want to be so far off topic as that is a violation of the rules and I am a guest; so I apologize to anyone that may be aggravated by myself getting so off the topic at hand.

God bless each of you and we will see you around if the Lord wills it so.

MS

I thought the topic was what do Baptists think of of Catholicism? If Baptists have an erroneous understanding of CC Teaching, shouldn’t we Catholics correct that?

 

[greggy53]

I don’t think we have gotten out of line. Perhaps the poster who claimed that was just getting frustrated.