What do Catholics Believe?

[eddie_too]

Jesus says we will be judged based on our works.

on the other hand, St. Dismas, the good thief who was crucified with Christ was assured salvation by his good works of recognizing the Son on the cross and defending Him against the verbal assaults of the third human being crucified at the same time as the Lord.

is placing one’s faith in Jesus and repenting a good work?

is placing one’s faith in Jesus but not repenting a fruitless (as opposed to a good) work?

when we humans resort to words in explaining and understanding the divine mysteries, our words will always fall short of the reality. that does not mean our words are meaningless or fruitless. it does mean that our understanding of the divine mysteries and the words we use in understanding the divine mysteries will always be incomplete until we possess the beatific vision (heaven).

the workings of grace and the relationship of faith to works is a divine mystery.

 

[JonNC]

=eddie too;13771732]Jesus says we will be judged based on our works.

on the other hand, St. Dismas, the good thief who was crucified with Christ was assured salvation by his good works of recognizing the Son on the cross and defending Him against the verbal assaults of the third human being crucified at the same time as the Lord.

I disagree. The good thief was justified by his faith. There is no other circumstances that his words could have made a difference. Recognizing the Son of God was not a work on his part, anymore than St. Peter’s great confession, “You are the Christ…”, was a work on his part. Christ even tells him it is God in Heaven that made this known to him.

is placing one’s faith in Jesus and repenting a good work?

It is a work only in the sense that it is a work of the Holy Spirit within us.

is placing one’s faith in Jesus but not repenting a fruitless (as opposed to a good) work?

This seems that this kind of faith is the kind that James condemns, and what we can a dead faith.

when we humans resort to words in explaining and understanding the divine mysteries, our words will always fall short of the reality. that does not mean our words are meaningless or fruitless. it does mean that our understanding of the divine mysteries and the words we use in understanding the divine mysteries will always be incomplete until we possess the beatific vision (heaven).

the workings of grace and the relationship of faith to works is a divine mystery.

to this I can only say, Amen.

 

[ffg]

People tend to like to fit Jesus into their own box of understanding, rather than reach a little and find more.

If Jesus meant what he said, when he said he did things so that you might believe, do we expect that he meant only in mind and heart, when he taught so much through example?

When I was a kid I remember playing sports.

I remember kids doing what the coach showed them, which brought about understanding and then belief in the coach and his way.

Jesus didn’t get baptized expecting His followers to not do the same, he didn’t visit the sick, hurting, for us to stay comfortably in our houses and write checks alone.

Yes, we are saved by the Grace of God, because He is God and we are not. However, we build a relationship with God through doing as he exampled. Matt 25 is a good read on this, that ‘how’ matters.

Which means - the definition of ‘belief’ in the bible is not simply mind and heart…

Does Jesus offset Peter’s 3 denials with his three questions of love like this -

‘Then thank you for your love’

Or this -

‘Then feed my sheep’

We don’t build relationship in our mind and heart, but our mind and heart in prayer can give us the drive to go build that relationship.

Take care,

Mike

 

[rcwitness]

I disagree. The good thief was justified by his faith. There is no other circumstances that his words could have made a difference. Recognizing the Son of God was not a work on his part, anymore than St. Peter’s great confession, “You are the Christ…”, was a work on his part. Christ even tells him it is God in Heaven that made this known to him.

The thief converted in heart and defended our Lord! I think the faith and works doctrine is for us not the Lord. I mean, He knows the heart. He declared the thief Justified. Did he do a good work by confessing and defending Jesus? I think so. But we are justified through the conviction of faith, to accept and follow in the Charity the Son has with the Father.

We will be judged by our deeds. And we should examine our deeds to confirm our hearts. If we act faithless, then we need to convert our hearts to Him.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

JonNC;13772106]I disagree. The good thief was justified by his faith. There is no other circumstances that his words could have made a difference

.

Blessings JonNC The good thief, admitted and confessed his good work by paying the penalty for this crimes, which introduces justification for the good thief.

His additional public confession is a work that justified his baptism by blood, which allowed him entrance into paradise.

Thus it was not “faith” alone that allowed the good thief to be justified in the eyes of God. Yet by the good thief’s good works by his confession and baptism by blood, not only paid for his debt in order to be justified by God. God was able to take him into paradise by His saving Grace after the good thief was justified by his baptism of blood.

Faith alone is not at work here during the crucifixion. A Great Work moves the hand of God in His saving Grace.

Recognizing the Son of God was not a work on his part, anymore than St. Peter’s great confession, “You are the Christ…”, was a work on his part. Christ even tells him it is God in Heaven that made this known to him.

We might be splitting hairs here; The Work is the confession that opens the door for God’s Grace and divine revelation to be known.

It is a work only in the sense that it is a work of the Holy Spirit within us

.

Is there any other work that saves?

It is a work for those who are working out their “salvation with fear and trembling”, who are in the New and everlasting covenant of God.

Those outside the New and everlasting covenant of God. Are in need of working towards that Covenant of Grace that saves. Which takes a confession (work) of faith and baptism.

What Catholics believe, begins with an Eternal Covenant, communal relationship with God.

A Covenant relationship with God, is never based on faith alone, without works, but is based on faith revealed by works.

Those Christians who subscribe to a “faith alone saves” , appear to be lacking the works revealed by faith that is practiced in the New and everlasting covenant of God.

Peace be with you

 

[blanchardman]

1Corinthians 3:
13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

When we are judged on our works it for rewards. Our salvation is not at stake in this, the final, judgment.

 

[LatinRight]

.

Blessings JonNC The good thief, admitted and confessed his good work by paying the penalty for this crimes, which introduces justification for the good thief.

His additional public confession is a work that justified his baptism by blood, which allowed him entrance into paradise.

Thus it was not “faith” alone that allowed the good thief to be justified in the eyes of God. Yet by the good thief’s good works by his confession and baptism by blood, not only paid for his debt in order to be justified by God. God was able to take him into paradise by His saving Grace after the good thief was justified by his baptism of blood.

Faith alone is not at work here during the crucifixion. A Great Work moves the hand of God in His saving Grace.

Is there any other work that saves?

It is a work for those who are working out their “salvation with fear and trembling”, who are in the New and everlasting covenant of God.

Pope Benedict XVI: ‘Luther Was Right’

“Luther would have been amazed at the efforts of the Vatican today to put the Bible back into the heart of the Roman Catholic Church,” writes Jeff Fountain of Christian Today.

Fountain reports that during Pope Benedict XVI’s recent weekly public addresses in St. Peter’s Square, he quoted Martin Luther in declaring “Sola fide,” that salvation is by faith alone.

According to this report, Benedict affirmed that Luther had correctly translated Paul’s words as ‘justified by faith alone’ – the well known sola fide.

It was disagreement over the doctrine of salvation by faith that sparked the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century, splitting Christianity in Western Europe.

“Yet, said the Pope, it was indeed biblical to say, as did Luther, that it was the faith of a Christian, not his works that saved him.”

By defining “faith” as “identification with Christ expressed in love for God and neighbor,” Pope Benedict qualified his statement, noting that the Apostle Paul had written about such faith in his letters, especially the one to the Philippians.

According to Fountain, the Pope highlighted the fact that prior to his Damascus Road conversion, Paul had strictly adhered to all the Pharisaical laws and rules.

However, after meeting the Lord Jesus in his vision, Paul began leading a lifestyle of faith alone."
End quote.

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of faith is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this RENEVAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to JUSTIFICATION.

4/37 We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - FOLLOW JUSTIFICATION and ARE ITS FRUITS.
Emphasize mine.

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan
Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become RIGHTEOUS and be SAVED?

We NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

Blessing LatinRight

 

[JonNC]

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of faith is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this RENEVAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to JUSTIFICATION.

4/37 We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - FOLLOW JUSTIFICATION and ARE ITS FRUITS.
Emphasize mine.

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan
Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become RIGHTEOUS and be SAVED?

We NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

Blessing LatinRight

Jon