What Do Catholics Not Respect Non-Catholics?

[MrS]

I never said my theology was better or more complete. By your stating that we have or are cooperating with the evil one I think it is obvious who sees their theology better and more complete than that of others.

So, again, reasoning goes only as far as we are willing to accept the rcc, right? Otherwise we are cooperating with the evil one, correct?

Also, I am a Lutheran.

Okay, fair enough.

As a Lutheran you have two basic “choices” for your memebership, is that right.

Do you feel, as a Lutheran, that your pastor has a valid ordination that can be traced to the Apostles… considering that the Lutheran church(s) is less than 500 years old?

Do you feel, as a Lutheran, that your theology is identical to what Jesus taught and gave us, say, in the sacraments?

Do you feel, as a Lutheran, that the real presence of your communion is temporary (exists during the service only), or permanent. In other words, is it the pastor or Jesus who is “in charge” for the communion.

If it is not Jesus - totally - who else could be the one working through the many, many faith communities started by men (or women)?

By the way, I am trying to draw a distinction between the Lutheran Faith Community (an entity that resulted in division), and the many wonderful people who happen to be members.

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[reteeks21]

Okay, fair enough.

As a Lutheran you have two basic “choices” for your memebership, is that right.

Do you mean Missouri or ELCA?

Do you feel, as a Lutheran, that your pastor has a valid ordination that can be traced to the Apostles… considering that the Lutheran church(s) is less than 500 years old?

Yes as far as it relates to the priesthood of the believer. We also believe that our reverends are more closely related to priests than you may think.

Do you feel, as a Lutheran, that your theology is identical to what Jesus taught and gave us, say, in the sacraments?

I sure do. I know that may get me in trouble here since I accept scripture’s explanation and not the rcc’s “decisions” (sorry; the only word I could think of) relating to the sacraments.

Do you feel, as a Lutheran, that the real presence of your communion is temporary (exists during the service only), or permanent. In other words, is it the pastor or Jesus who is “in charge” for the communion.

---

I, like Luther, believe the incredible importance and sacredness of the communion. Luther took Christ at His word when it came to communion, or at least that is what we have been taught.

If it is not Jesus - totally - who else could be the one working through the many, many faith communities started by men (or women)?

By the way, I am trying to draw a distinction between the Lutheran Faith Community (an entity that resulted in division), and the many wonderful people who happen to be members.

.

I know that we all disagree on many things here; I am not so niave that I don’t see that. Sometimes it seems so much so that we all fight more than “reasoning”. As someone with religion and teaching degrees I have learned the value of talking, listening, and respect without minimizing the beliefs of others, even if I believe I am right.

I know this may sound crazy but I grew up Baptist, but has since changed for me, My father-in-law is a Baptist minister, and I think he put it best: we probably have more in common than than we maybe we want to admit. Now, if a Southern Baptist can say that with sincerity then maybe we all could even if we don’t agree.

 

[MrS]

I know that we all disagree on many things here; I am not so niave that I don’t see that. Sometimes it seems so much so that we all fight more than “reasoning”. As someone with religion and teaching degrees I have learned the value of talking, listening, and respect without minimizing the beliefs of others, even if I believe I am right.

I know this may sound crazy but I grew up Baptist, but has since changed for me, My father-in-law is a Baptist minister, and I think he put it best: we probably have more in common than than we maybe we want to admit. Now, if a Southern Baptist can say that with sincerity then maybe we all could even if we don’t agree.

My daughter-in-law, one of 6 (and I tell each one that she is my “favorite” ) is Lutheran. She is truly a wonderful wife and mother,and loves the Lord as much as I do.

She told me a few times that she is Catholic Lite. So I smiled when you commented…
Yes as far as it relates to the priesthood of the believer. We also believe that our reverends are more closely related to priests than you may think.

The priesthood of believers is true… and the ministerial priesthood is also true. As a Catholic, I understand that the latter can only come with, from, and through the authority of the High Priest, Jesus Christ. Ordinations cannot be assumed.

Thus, with the Real Presence, the Eucharist, as the greatest gift God gives us in this lifetime - Himself - I want to be in the only Church that can give me what I need.

I have a Baptist son too. Over the years he has changed - now he concedes that not all Catholics ( and presumably not all Lutherans) are going to hell for their “different” Gospel . Wow am I relieved.

Yes we have a lot in common. I think that is so because those entities that have split from Catholic beliefs and Doctrines, took some of them along for the trip. So, of course we some things in common.

The Eucharists is first on the list of things we won’t ever find outside the Catholic Church.

Thank you for your response, and
God bless you in your walk with the Lord.

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[elts1956]

Funny that the Church never takes those one or two Masses a year to inform them all that they are committing grave sins by not attending weekly.

I wonder why that is?

Hi Onetime, They are informed. It is a part of their Catholic instruction. They choose to ignore it.

 

[pigtown]

Originally Posted by pigtown
For several reasons I have left the Catholic Church. When I was little we couldn’t even read the Bible!

Blame your parents.

Blame my parents for what? They did what the priests told them to do. I’m almost 70 years old and I must admit that things were a lot different when I was growing up than they are today. My parents are not to be blamed for anything.

 

[peary]

Blame my parents for what? They did what the priests told them to do. I’m almost 70 years old and I must admit that things were a lot different when I was growing up than they are today. My parents are not to be blamed for anything.

Is it pigtown or pigheaded? ****

 

[wanner47]

Is it pigtown or pigheaded? ****

I think this is uncalled for, even as a joke.

Pigtown, the fact is that your priest was mistaken and it might have been wise for your parents to seek the opinion of a different priest. They should have not have been told they cannot read their Bible. This was not and has never been the teaching of the Church.

 

[elts1956]

I think this is uncalled for, even as a joke.

Pigtown, the fact is that your priest was mistaken and it might have been wise for your parents to seek the opinion of a different priest. They should have not have been told they cannot read their Bible. This was not and has never been the teaching of the Church.

Then WHY wasn’t the bible emphasized where I went to school, in the midwest? I don’t remember a thing about it being discussed.:crying: :crying:

 

[elts1956]

Is it pigtown or pigheaded? ****

Dearest Peary. If you are calling pigtown pigheaded, then you need to call me by that acronym also, as I do NOT remember the bible being emphasised throughout my sixteen years of Catholic Education. So I guess that makes two of us illusional pigheads.:crying: :crying: You may know a lot Peary, but you don’t know everything. So there.

 

[peary]

Dearest Peary. If you are calling pigtown pigheaded, then you need to call me by that acronym also, as I do NOT remember the bible being emphasised throughout my sixteen years of Catholic Education. So I guess that makes two of us illusional pigheads.:crying: :crying: You may know a lot Peary, but you dn’t know everything. So there.

**Oh, please…save it for the View
The experience I had IN MY PARISH IN THE MIDWEST IN THE 1950s and 1960s was that there was an active Altar & Rosary Society, an active Holy Name Society, Knights of Columbus, and we had, from what I remember because my father was involved, was a BIBLE STUDY although it wasn’t called that, but a group met with the priest and they studied the bible. I was also an altar boy, went 8 years to our parish school in which we were required to have a personal New Testament in grades 7 & 8, 4 years high school where we were required to have a personal complete Bible for study, and 4 years private Catholic college where theology was required for liberal arts.

So, please, don’t accuse me of knowing things I know because I had a decent background in my Faith from the schools I attended. Maybe you need to get involved with your own parish, get on the council or school board, and make sure that the children receive proper catechetics.**

 

[elts1956]

Oh, please…save it for the View
The experience I had IN MY PARISH IN THE MIDWEST IN THE 1950s and 1960s was that there was an active Altar & Rosary Society, an active Holy Name Society, Knights of Columbus, and we had, from what I remember because my father was involved, was a BIBLE STUDY although it wasn’t called that, but a group met with the priest and they studied the bible. I was also an altar boy, went 8 years to our parish school in which we were required to have a personal New Testament in grades 7 & 8, 4 years high school where we were required to have a personal complete Bible for study, and 4 years private Catholic college where theology was required for liberal arts.

So, please, don’t accuse me of knowing things I know because I had a decent background in my Faith from the schools I attended. Maybe you need to get involved with your own parish, get on the council or school board, and make sure that the children receive proper catechetics.

As usual your rash temper keeps you from interpreting what I really said. Did I call you a liar? Emphatically NO. Should I have said, “Dearest Peary yours is the only true experience that anyone had during their Catholic educational life?” That would have been a lie. Perhaps I should have said my age, as pigtown did, which is 70, in order for you to be convinced that my experience in Catholic education, in another era, was different than yours? The sun really doesn’t rise and set with you Peary, but I will RESPECTFULLY agree that your experience was as real as mine.

Oh and a word from the wise: Keep your tongue in your mouth or it will freeze and turn blue. That is what I always told my three year old students when there was a “stick out the tongue contest”.

 

[peary]

Oh and a word from the wise: Keep your tongue in your mouth or it will freeze and turn blue. That is what I always told my three year old students when there was a “stick out the tongue contest”.

I don’t talk when I type. Plus, if you look closely, my tongue is red

 

[elts1956]

I don’t talk when I type. Plus, if you look closely, my tongue is red

Apparently it hasn’t frozen yet, but it will, it will.

 

[placido]

Blame my parents for what? They did what the priests told them to do. I’m almost 70 years old and I must admit that things were a lot different when I was growing up than they are today. My parents are not to be blamed for anything.

In most cultures (mostly African cultures) a child is not allowed to handle a sword lest he injuried himself. The Bible is a very sharp sword that can destroy if handed out to children. So, it might have been out of love that your parents prevented you to read the Bible on your own. BTW, 70 years ago - that was another era, not known for high level of literacy.

 

[elts1956]

In most cultures (mostly African cultures) a child is not allowed to handle a sword lest he injuried himself. The Bible is a very sharp sword that can destroy if handed out to children. So, it might have been out of love that your parents prevented you to read the Bible on your own. BTW, 70 years ago - that was another era, not known for high level of literacy.

I BEG YOUR PARDON!!! True we didn’t have the internet waaaaaaaaay back then, but we had books, newspapers, the radio (do you know what that is?), so I am truly insulted.

 

[placido]

I BEG YOUR PARDON!!! True we didn’t have the internet waaaaaaaaay back then, but we had books, newspapers, the radio (do you know what that is?), so I am truly insulted.

Insulted?

 

[benedictus2]

ONE TRUE CHURCH?

 I have always doubted that there is one true church. My inclination is to think that good people of all faiths are equal in the sight of God, that when the 'judgement day' arrives, God will not evn take note of our church affiliation but look at our heart, our sincerity, our motives, and how closely we lived by the Golden Rule.

  Somedays I'm inclined to think that our problem is that we seem to really feel that theology saves us rather than Christ. If we believe the right things (doctrines of the church) then we have an advantage. Some Catholics hold on to the believe that only in their church can people gain salvation. Brilliant men and women over thousands of years have come up with all sorts of ideas re God, Christ, scripture, authority, whatever. With perhaps a few exceptions why can't we learn from them all and give them the respect they deserve?

  Then, of course, there is the debate over whether Jesus actually founded the Catholic Church specifically or the Christian church generally. I wonder if Jesus came back and saw our churches - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - would he recognize them as what he had in mind. Would that humble man of Galilee like our expensive altars, statues and vestments and all the repetitive ritual that has evolved since his time? Just asking.

First off, it is true that God loves us all equally. But if a church is not necessary, then why did Christ have to come. After all the Jews already believed in the one God and the the Hindus believed in sme gods of sorts. So therefore you are saying that Christ is irrelevant?

Secondly, if a Church is not necessary, why did Christ have to build his own Church? Why didn’t he just leave all these wise sayings for us to follow and leave it at that. Leave us all to fend for our selves?

Scott Hahn answers this quite beautifully by saying: because God is Father and He knows how to Father.

Scott has written a lot about the covenant and this might answer your questions. So grab his books.

Thomas Howard writes that the way Protestants worship would be totally foreign to the apostles.

Lastly, Christ founded His Church upon Peter the Rock. Only one Church has claimed continuity from this Church all through out history.

I read somewhere that one of the devil’s great lies is that all opinion or points of view are equal. Relativism is one of the most evil scourge of our time precisely because it masquerades as a good.

 

[placido]

True we didn’t have the internet waaaaaaaaay back then, but we had books, newspapers, the radio (do you know what that is?)

Are you asking me personally or are you asking whether we, in Africa, know what a book, a newspaper or a radio is?

 

[pigtown]

In most cultures (mostly African cultures) a child is not allowed to handle a sword lest he injuried himself. The Bible is a very sharp sword that can destroy if handed out to children. So, it might have been out of love that your parents prevented you to read the Bible on your own. BTW, 70 years ago - that was another era, not known for high level of literacy.

You do realize that we did have schools way back when I was growing up, don’t you? We even had very well educated people. I resent your remark about literacy. Gee, I guess I should let my husband know about this. He’s almost 80 and is an M.D. He’d be very interested in knowing that people of our generation aren’t literate. Try to stick to the subject at hand and don’t put people down just because they are older and have more experience than you do. There is good in any age.

 

[placido]

You do realize that we did have schools way back when I was growing up, don’t you? We even had very well educated people. I resent your remark about literacy. Gee, I guess I should let my husband know about this. He’s almost 80 and is an M.D. He’d be very interested in knowing that people of our generation aren’t literate. Try to stick to the subject at hand and don’t put people down just because they are older and have more experience than you do. There is good in any age.

English is not my mother tongue. May be I did not make myself clear. I was trying to respond to someone saying his parents prevended him reading the bible. I said it might have been out of love because it is not good to allow children to play around with a sword - the bible is a sword that cuts both ways. It do destroy the unleaned. It is also a fact that education 70 to 80 years ago was not as is today. Am I clear now?